ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week 5/22 to 5/29

[EastUS]

Leonidas: "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it!"

Ever wonder who Leonidas might be and if he is on the board of Leonidas LLC?

I don't know..BUT..at least the guy's clearly got "INTEGRITY", :blink: ...at least as it's defined by the west contingent.

 

[Flyz4food]

[quote name='EastUS' post='610562' date='May 27 2008, 09:37 PM'][quote name='ChuckBewFarley' date='May 27 2008, 07:13 PM' post='610455
The question that keeps being asked here and never answered is a simple one- Given the east pilot groups' past actions how can anyone trust their future actions?


"Integrity matters" "INTEGRITY MATTERS" Great slogan...let's examine the truth behind it:

EastUS: "I can't personally imagine myself EVER having the unmitigated gall to look into another's pilot's face, with far more years of flying..and tell him that I "should be the captain"....of course; I don't have your perverse sense of having any "higher ground"=lottery ticket, upon which to "justify" any such obvious BS...and I personally couldn't even then. Your actual mileage seems to vary therein.....within all that "higher ground"

Prechilill: "Ho Ho Ho!, St Nic is coming to town!"
Leonidas: "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it!"

As far back as May 13th, 2007: EastUS: "Wouldn't some slight reconsideration of fences seem even a tiny bit reasonable?" AWA320: "Not at all!! If the arbitrator had thought fences were necessary he would have put them there. He didn't for a reason"... "'AWA320' "Now this group will not deal and we don't have to."

May 13th, 2007. EastUS: "Firstly; you have no possible idea of what the company will do in response to anything...period. There isn't any "good guy/"bad guy" index in any 'headquarters that's used in the decision making process...it's just all about generating income. Management's hardly your big brother that'll step in to take your side just because you think such is right." We subsequently endured much whining and sobbing over even such trivia as the precious Cactus callsign..and the west folks were totally shocked. Later developmental phases included the famous "You won't even get 200 cards!/Send the cards, I DARE you!!"/etc, ad nauseum. The very evening prior to the election gave us such gems as Leo's "I will be laughing tomorrow".

May 13th, 2007. AAA#6: "The AWA pilots owe the East pilots nothing. We don't need to enter into any agreements. That would be completely stupid on our part. Why should we put restrictions on ourselves to satisfy East pilots?


Ummm..shall I go on?..If so; I'd be abusing bandwidth to excess. There's PLENTY more, (in fact..too many to even count or total) of those gems available, all clearly denoting the highest aspects of the west's "Righeous Position", and all, naturally...... fully replete with "Integrity" With aknowledged abuse of Robin Williams = "Integrity!!??...Whatta' Concept!!" [/quote]
You can quote dates? Chapter and verse? You really need to find a life someplace other than here.

 

[Pacemaker]

767jetz,

Consider yourself fortunate to have dodged a bullet.

After the usair millstone dragged you down with it and destroyed yet another airline, you would have spent the rest of your life hearing how all those money-losing Pacific routes "out west" killed the golden goose.

 

[sharktooth]

"In the case of US Airways and America West, despite their labor troubles, the combination did generate higher revenues and probably saved US Airways from liquidation,"

WSJ MarketWatch. Yeah, the go-to place for people to find where to throw their money away. Even Warren Buffett thinks they are a waste of time, preferring, instead, to do the work himself.

Note: no references, simply a statement taken out of the blue to support Hinton's contentions on DAL/NW.

and, yes, jetz, the combination did generate "higher revenues", for a while, but that, in itself, never guarantees survival. It is higher yield that guarantees that. But, Hinton never mentions, "yield", choosing, instead, to use the term "revenue". Hmmm. Anyone with greater than a single digit IQ should be able to see that Hinton is just pulling it out of his tutu.

The word "probably" is used to cover himself. Had he actual numbers, he would have been certain.

I emailed Hinton about his sources. You might do the same. Not really expecting a reply form him, because it would crater his opening contention about DAL/NW to admit he just made it up about US/HP.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI

Meeting Notice

US Airline Pilots Association
Regular Meeting
Ramada Airport South and Conference Center
212 West Woodlawn Road
Charlotte, NC 28217
For complimentary transportation call: 704.525.8350
June 10, 2008

Day One, Tuesday June 10, 2008, Days Two and Three will be Wednesday and Thursday if necessary.

1000 to 1800 (Subsequent orders of the day will be 0900-1700)

Meeting Convenes

Roll Call

Officers Reports

President

Vice President

Executive Vice President

Secretary Treasurer

Agenda Items:

Approval of previous meeting minutes.
Negotiating Advisory Committee Briefing on status of the previous JNC Negotiations, development of strategy for engaging management in current negotiations.
Merger Committee Briefing on Policy Manual Items, Merger Counsel, Integration Scenarios.
Communications Committee briefing, Comm. plan update.
Establish BPR Position on wearing the new uniform.
BPR Approval of Presidential Committee Appointments.
Legal Update Effort to Stem Unlawful Sabotage of USAPA.
Grievance Briefing.

Pilots are advised that portions of this meeting may occur in Executive Session at the discretion of the Board. All USAPA members in good standing are invited to attend.

 

[EastUS]

You can quote dates? Chapter and verse?

Ouch!..a scathing riposte!..."A touch!..yes..I do confess it!" Yes indeed..if you were at all familiar wiff' all 'dat teknuoologeek stuff..you might also note that the date "stamp" attends all previous threads that are archived, so it's no great stress to note them. All I did was pick an early post -Nic page at random to start..and the westie material instantly overflowed....showing kindness, generosity, rational thinking..and certainly ..such awesome "Integrity" in clear terms for all to read. In example again: "A nice thing about the furloughs being stapled is this,..".and it just went on and on for a year.

"You really need to find a life someplace other than here." Kind concern from you sir/ma'am..but I can allay your kind cocerns by noting that I've got a very pleasing life, and one that I'll guarantee I certainly wouldn't trade for yours.

Is it fair to take your reply as an indication that you also have some difficulty in seriously attempting to justify all the "Righteous" and "Integrity"-filled BS from the west?...No matter really. No one with an above room temp IQ out here has bought that sorry BS for a very long time.....Have fun with it though. If you wish to contest the toxic level of obvious "I want MINE" BS that's the essence of the west position...how about "explaining" "I want the captain seat ..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". that one shouldn't prove the least bit problematic for a host of such "righteous" and "Integrity-laden folks as you have out there to fully explain. If you don't care for that little gem...there's an entire jeweler's shop of the same, high quality of west crap readilly available. "Integrity"!!?? ...Umm...sure...if you say so

I began on these boards in what I'd thought a very reasonable manner. It was my thought that pointing out that Nic just wouldn't work, and suggesting even consideration of fences was both rational and in our collective interests. Nowadays...I'm pretty much just disgusted with your group..not that such feelings will be of any concern, I realize, nor will they effect any changes in my personal behavior towards any of you. I just wish to point out just how hard you "people" had to work to completely alienate us out here. Think what you will otherwise, oh ye "Integrity" laden "Kinghts of the Nic" and the west's "Righteous Position". The great "crime" the east committed was finally ridding ourselves of Alpa, and not embracing the travesty of Nic. For that?..it appears that the west (after year's worth of your taunting and inuslts) is all aflutter. Suit yourselves then and hope for the best..whatever your current fantasies regarding that are. The future's always unknown to all, but, it might behoove the west to consder a few more "alternate endings" than currently seems in fashion out there. Whatever your expectations actually are..it might be worth noting that "you guys" haven't yet been right..even once.

Have a Good One

 

[BottomFeeder]

Enjoy your assessment, it is coming you know.

So are the non-union pink slips and enjoy them.

 

[Pacemaker]

WSJ MarketWatch. Yeah, the go-to place for people to find where to throw their money away. Even Warren Buffett thinks they are a waste of time, preferring, instead, to do the work himself.

Note: no references, simply a statement taken out of the blue to support Hinton's contentions on DAL/NW.

and, yes, jetz, the combination did generate "higher revenues", for a while, but that, in itself, never guarantees survival. It is higher yield that guarantees that. But, Hinton never mentions, "yield", choosing, instead, to use the term "revenue". Hmmm. Anyone with greater than a single digit IQ should be able to see that Hinton is just pulling it out of his tutu.

The word "probably" is used to cover himself. Had he actual numbers, he would have been certain.

I emailed Hinton about his sources. You might do the same. Not really expecting a reply form him, because it would crater his opening contention about DAL/NW to admit he just made it up about US/HP.

If higher yield guaranteed survival we'd all be sitting pretty. Unfortunately US Airways is also a perennial leader in unit costs - which most years have outpaced unit revenue by a considerable margin. US Airways rode industry-leading yields right into bankruptcy. Twice. Turns out chasing all those high-yield routes in the BOS-DCA corridor is ruinously expensive.

 

[prechilill]

767jetz,

Consider yourself fortunate to have dodged a bullet.

After the usair millstone dragged you down with it and destroyed yet another airline, you would have spent the rest of your life hearing how all those money-losing Pacific routes "out west" killed the golden goose.

LOL That is one of the funniest posts on USAviation.com. So true, so well spoken.

 

[CactusFlyr]

So are the non-union pink slips and enjoy them.

Perfect for wiping my ^%$* with, send a bunch.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Is it fair to take your reply as an indication that you also have some difficulty in seriously attempting to justify all the "Righteous" and "Integrity"-filled BS from the west?...No matter really. No one with an above room temp IQ out here has bought that sorry BS for a very long time.....Have fun with it though. If you wish to contest the toxic level of obvious "I want MINE" BS that's the essence of the west position...how about "explaining" "I want the captain seat ..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". that one shouldn't prove the least bit problematic for a host of such "righteous" and "Integrity-laden folks as you have out there to fully explain. If you don't care for that little gem...there's an entire jeweler's shop of the same, high quality of west crap readilly available. "Integrity"!!?? ...Umm...sure...if you say so

I began on these boards in what I'd thought a very reasonable manner. It was my thought that pointing out that Nic just wouldn't work, and suggesting even consideration of fences was both rational and in our collective interests. Nowadays...I'm pretty much just disgusted with your group..not that such feelings will be of any concern, I realize, nor will they effect any changes in my personal behavior towards any of you. I just wish to point out just how hard you "people" had to work to completely alienate us out here. Think what you will otherwise, oh ye "Integrity" laden "Kinghts of the Nic" and the west's "Righteous Position". The great "crime" the east committed was finally ridding ourselves of Alpa, and not embracing the travesty of Nic. For that?..it appears that the west (after year's worth of your taunting and inuslts) is all aflutter. Suit yourselves then and hope for the best..whatever your current fantasies regarding that are. The future's always unknown to all, but, it might behoove the west to consder a few more "alternate endings" than currently seems in fashion out there. Whatever your expectations actually are..it might be worth noting that "you guys" haven't yet been right..even once.

Have a Good One

East- Do you reallly believe the stuff you spew here?

Let's see, what group activated the CRIT when the BINDING ARBITRATION was announced? Who picketed? Who walked away from the JNC? :huh:

Have you ever considered our reaction as a tit for tat?

There was a process and your group (the know it alls) chose a course that lead to failure. I could bore you with the details in the transcripts, not the drivel the east fo provided, but you seem the reject the truth as fantasy. :down:

ALPA's gone, you won, yahooo!! You told us 'we can do it better'. SO DO IT. St Bradford and company said we would have a contract by now, GET IT DONE! The only thing I've heard is let's bring the west down to LOA93. Some fix there.

You need to go to the BuRP meeting and spend the making more resolutions. How about encouraging the west pilots to join? Wait that will require some to come out west to the companies largest domicle, oh we can't do that unless we have positive space!! And Doogie has to invite us, can't talk to the VP's, social status you know.

I am so thankful that the east saved the west, things are so much better now. This must be nirvana!!!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Just for the purpose of this argument, let's just say that the Nicolau award is in fact a lottery. The lottery term is bandied about regularly by the eastyz.

The "lottery ticket" concept regarding the Nicolau shame actually became popular when it was first brought to the forefront by Doug Parker in a town hall meeting out west. If you don't like the analogy, talk to Doug. In this case, he GETS IT!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Perfect for wiping my ^%$* with, send a bunch.

You'll only get a few, so use them wisely. There certainly won't be enough to clean up the amount of dung you spew.

They stop coming about the same time as your paycheck (if that helps with your long term planning.)

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI

Report: Talks between United, US Airways stall�
Sources say airlines pull plug on merger negotiations over labor concerns

NEW YORK - Consolidation talks between United Airlines and US Airways appear to have fallen apart, The New York Times reported late Tuesday, citing unnamed people with direct knowledge of the discussions. The board of United parent UAL Corp., and its chief executive Glenn F. Tilton, raised questions about the arrangement in the past few days, according to three people the Times said had been briefed on the decision making. One person said senior executives at both airlines, as well as external bankers and lawyers working toward a deal, have put it on 'permanent hold.'

The Times said the people spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks were private. United spokeswoman Jean Medina declined to comment to The Associated Press. 'We don't comment on rumors or speculation,' she said.

Labor complications
A key sticking point appeared to be labor complications, the Times reported. Sorting out issues such as union representation and seniority could have taken years, delaying any cost savings from a deal. US Airways Group Inc. has still not reached agreements with all of its unions following its 2005 combination with America West Airlines. United and US Airways first agreed to team up eight years ago, but United called off the planned $4.3 billion acquisition in July 2001 after the Justice Department said it would sue to block it.
More recently, industry analysts have predicted a trend toward bigger but more efficient airlines as fuel prices have skyrocketed and carriers struggle to survive. Chicago-based United and Tempe, Ariz.-based US Airways have been in preliminary talks for months, but the pace picked up last month after Delta Air Lines Inc.'s acquisition of Northwest Airlines Corp. was announced and Continental Airlines Inc. said it decided not to pursue a merger with United. A combined United-US Airways would jockey with the newly proposed Delta-Northwest for bragging rights as the nation's largest carrier, dropping AMR Corp.'s American Airlines from first to third.

Combined, United and US Airways have about 91,000 employees, more than 800 airplanes and annual revenues of $31.8 billion.

I guess the white knight of ALPA isn't coming anytime soon.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

East- Do you reallly believe the stuff you spew here?

Do you believe your posts? It would seem you always blend attacks on ALPA as being on USAPA. There is a difference.

Let's see, what group activated the CRIT when the BINDING ARBITRATION was announced? Who picketed? Who walked away from the JNC? :huh:

Believe that was ALPA that did all that. BTW What is a CRIT?

Have you ever considered our reaction as a tit for tat?

You mean ALPA vs. ALPA? Or are you trying to set the stage as AWAPPA vs. USAPA?

There was a process and your group (the know it alls) chose a course that lead to failure. I could bore you with the details in the transcripts, not the drivel the east fo provided, but you seem the reject the truth as fantasy.

What failure? ALPA is gone along with the leadership. Do you mean truth according to ALPA produced transcripts? It's a new day. Where is ALPA again?

ALPA's gone, you won, yahooo!! You told us 'we can do it better'. SO DO IT. St Bradford and company said we would have a contract by now, GET IT DONE! The only thing I've heard is let's bring the west down to LOA93. Some fix there.

Nothing is going to happen til the middle of June. Think about it. Know why yet? Negotiations will begin very soon. With or without your input. Either way we will be paid the same for the same craft and class. Where do you want the starting point to be?

You need to go to the BuRP meeting and spend the making more resolutions. How about encouraging the west pilots to join? Wait that will require some to come out west to the companies largest domicle, oh we can't do that unless we have positive space!! And Doogie has to invite us, can't talk to the VP's, social status you know.

There is enough information out there already to make a decision on membership. What more do you need? USAPA leaders won't grovel to you or the company. That in my mind shows real leadership, which has been lacking around this place for quite some time.

I am so thankful that the east saved the west, things are so much better now. This must be nirvana!!!

I'm glad your thankful. About time someone saw it for what it really is. Yea I know, sarcasm. In all seriousness though, this merger could have been great. Management dropped the ball big time and continues to drop it at every issue. Welcome to our world as we descend into the abyss once again.