ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week 5/22 to 5/29

[AAA73Pilot]

Relax my friend. It's gonna take Bradford some time to edumicate his self on the bestest way to ruin..sorry run a union...I mean an association! Heck he's still behind in delivering that new contract that he promised in weeks, not to mention the "seamless" transition.

Actually he and the BPR are doing just fine. Too bad for you it's not on your timeline. Nothing is going to happen til the middle of June anyway. Think about it. As for "seamless" .... No problems there. Trying to force a timeline is a wasted effort on your part. Oh well.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

USAPA doesn't threaten your careers at all. Tell it like it is. USAPA threatens your lottery winnings and nothing more.

Succinct and to the point. Well said.

 

[EastUS]

There was never a contract promise by USAPA in any time frame.

That's been my understanding as well. Perhaps we've all just missed some "secret communication", given only to the non-members out west, who refuse to participate at any level, but evidently have the very best understanding of any/all events and issues. It seems that, by refusing to become members and having nothing to do with USAPA, that they believe themselves to have far more accurate "information" than anyone else.....sigh.

QUOTE (nycbusdriver @ May 27 2008, 10:27 AM)
USAPA doesn't threaten your careers at all. Tell it like it is. USAPA threatens your lottery winnings and nothing more." Amen.

 

[luvn737s]

Just substitute USAPA for AWAPPA, and "the Nic" for USAPA in the paragraph above and you finally understand how the east has felt this past year.

Nah, the USAPA weed grew from the concept of "we have nothing left to lose" which is a pretty weak platform. Those proven leaders who will replace USAPA are going to do so on a much more positive and progressive foundation which will engender support both from those who see USAPA for what it really is and those disillusioned pilots who won't stand for what it has become. The extreme fringe will be left to rattle a few paper sabers among themselves wondering why they couldn't get more mileage out of fear mongering.

 

[EastUS]

Nah, the USAPA weed grew from the concept of "we have nothing left to lose" which is a pretty weak platform. Those proven leaders who will replace USAPA are going to do so on a much more positive and progressive foundation which will engender support both from those who see USAPA for what it really is and those disillusioned pilots who won't stand for what it has become. The extreme fringe will be left to rattle a few paper sabers among themselves wondering why they couldn't get more mileage out of fear mongering.

Oooo-Kay....umm...sure, if you say so.. :blink: Just curious though: What rock have all these "proven leaders" been hiding under for all this time? The only thing I've ever seen "proven", within the Alpa crowd..is that there were/are ZERO actual leaders, and NO supposed "negotiators" that had so much as even any tiny semblance of a spine...Perhaps I've just missed something over the course of all these years though. Ummm...no offence meant, but,..umm..are you, (or any of the few other west-folk that post equally delusional BS here), any of the "proven leaders"? :blink:

"The extreme fringe will be left to rattle a few paper sabers among themselves wondering why they couldn't get more mileage out of fear mongering" No joke there

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Just for the purpose of this argument, let's just say that the Nicolau award is in fact a lottery. The lottery term is bandied about regularly by the eastyz. First question: didn't you eastyz buy a ticket for the drawing? Second question: since you didn't win, you are now trying to take away our prize - the very prize we westyz invested a lot of our hard earned dollars in. So what gives you eastyz the right to even contemplate such a thing? When looked at in this context, isn't that thievery?

I know there won't be any straight answers to this, so I'll just go about my business. But this is just another example to show how wrong the fusapa bunch is in their attempt to overturn/circumvent what is right and what is just.

You may have the majority, but we hold the higher ground. This little dose of reality must really suck for all of you, eh?

INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[checksix]

luvn737s' post= There is only so much time, effort and money that anyone can dedicate. The AWAPPA supporters are choosing to devote all of their time effort and money towards the full and unequivocal destruction of USAPA as it represents the single biggest threat to their careers.


Just substitute USAPA for AWAPPA, and "the Nic" for USAPA in the paragraph above and you finally understand how the east has felt this past year.

That pretty much covers it doesn't it. The difference today is that you have only one group that is at the controls, primarily because the other side refuses to participate. I don't think you could say that prior to April 17th - both sides were steering in different directions.........at least we're finally heading in one direction. The passengers aren't real happy, so to speak.

 

[EastUS]

Just for the purpose of this argument, let's just say that the Nicolau award is in fact a lottery. The lottery term is bandied about regularly by the eastyz. First question: didn't you eastyz buy a ticket for the drawing? Second question: since you didn't win, you are now trying to take away our prize - the very prize we westyz invested a lot of our hard earned dollars in. So what gives you eastyz the right to even contemplate such a thing? When looked at in this context, isn't that thievery?

I know there won't be any straight answers to this, so I'll just go about my business.

INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

.

Wow! I've never heard west-"righteousness" more honestly expressed = "Second question: since you didn't win, you are now trying to take away our prize - the very prize we westyz invested a lot of our hard earned dollars in." Ah yes...since you spent money on the lottery..you should have lifetime "seniority" over all others...given that your "ticket", against ALL rational thought..'won". I can find NO possibly better way .to argue for your desired, versus honest and actual "seniority". See..here's the "little problem" you're glossing over = many years of flying and work..that you/yours didn't ever do, that those that did, amazingly enough....actually believe to be worth something. That you and yours would gleefully jump in front of said "fellow pilots', even if gloriously holding aloft the Sacred Lotto Ticket of St Nic..well...that just doesn't much impress those "fellow pilots" in any "righteous"way. I can't personally imagine myself EVER having the unmitigated gall to look into another's pilot's face, with far more years of flying..and tell him that I "should be the captain"....of course; I don't have your perverse sense of having any "higher ground"=lottery ticket, upon which to "justify" any such obvious BS...and I personally couldn't even then. Your actual mileage seems to vary therein.....within all that "higher ground"

"When looked at in this context, isn't that thievery?"

"You may have the majority, but we hold the higher ground"...Yes indeed, no doubt. I can't begin to imagine a better and more "righteous" positon,or reason for seeking to instantly advance yours over all those "fellow pilots" with many more YEARS worth of work and flying time. Yep...That's a pretty "righteous position" and "higher ground" all right.....or as you honestly expressed... just..a lottery ticket that, as it turns out..you just can't cash.

"But this is just another example to show how wrong the fusapa bunch is in their attempt to overturn/circumvent what is right and what is just." Perhaps you need to complain directly to your Bookie = Alpa. "This little dose of reality must really suck for all of you, eh?"

"what is right and what is just"....INTEGRITY MATTERS"..."we hold the higher ground". Puleeaze...just spare us all..or just keep it coming as a source of amusement It's gotten way past merely ridiculous, and zoomed all the way up to; you've GOT to be joking!!??

 

[checksix]

Relax my friend. It's gonna take Bradford some time to edumicate his self on the bestest way to ruin..sorry run a union...I mean an ass-ociation! Heck he's still behind in delivering that new contract that he promised in weeks, not to mention the "seamless" transition.

USAPA is going to take all the time necessary to effectively negotiate an integrated agreement and seniority list. But let me take this one step further, since you have chosen to protest in silence and not join the association the question you might ask yourself is what will be the result of my actions? The obvious one is that you do not have a say in the direction the association chooses, that of course is decided by its membership. In effect, you are along for the ride and your opinion is of little or no importance.

I would not be comfortable with that choice to be quite honest, Cactus Boy. And since you have chosen non-membership I am sure some might suggest that you quit your whining, after all, its destined only to fall on deaf ears.

 

[checksix]

This little dose of reality must really suck for all of you, eh?

You may want to take another look at your position.

 

[checksix]

Just for the purpose of this argument, let's just say that the Nicolau award is in fact a lottery.

I know there won't be any straight answers to this, so I'll just go about my business. But this is just another example to show how wrong the fusapa bunch is in their attempt to overturn/circumvent what is right and what is just.

Your shot at the lottery is over, you pushed the 800 lb gorilla too far. You had your chance to negotiate appropriate protections for east pilots, (appropriate protections for their seats and attrition). You declined due to an extremely poor estimation of what you were up against and greed. Today, you are reaping what you sow - you no longer have a choice, that choice has been removed permanently. You can whine and cry on here as much as you want; it's irrelevant - the train has left the station.

So there's a straight answer for you

 

[nostradamus]

The Army of Leonidas LLC and AWAPPA announce a merger.

"We have our first stage strategy in place and are ready to proceed, but we must also consider the ramifications of a possible new merger with United before we do.

To use a naval metaphor, we have torpedoes on target, tubes flooded and finger on the “fireâ€￾ button- but a new vessel just arrived in our unfriendly waters that we need to first identify as a friend, foe, or neither before we launch our attack."

Click here, then general quarters all hands on deck.

 

[luvn737s]

Your shot at the lottery is over, you pushed the 800 lb gorilla too far. You had your chance to negotiate appropriate protections for east pilots, (appropriate protections for their seats and attrition). You declined due to an extremely poor estimation of what you were up against and greed. Today, you are reaping what you sow - you no longer have a choice, that choice has been removed permanently. You can whine and cry on here as much as you want; it's irrelevant - the train has left the station.

So there's a straight answer for you

Did you pull that quote directly from a west pilot, or did you embellish it a little to suit the east perspective? As USAPA has proven, there is still plenty that can be done after "the train has left the station". Plenty of out-of-control 800lb gorillas have been subdued by tranquizers so that they cannot do harm to themselves or others. One need only glance at our US Congress to see the power of the minority to hold back the steamroller of the majority. And comparing something as disfuctional as the Congress to USAPA is giving Congress alot of credit.

Why not checktwelve and choose progress over stalemate?

 

[checksix]

Did you pull that quote directly from a west pilot, or did you embellish it a little to suit the east perspective?

Direct quote - NiceLandingCaptain with a stapler for an icon.

As USAPA has proven, there is still plenty that can be done after "the train has left the station". Plenty of out-of-control 800lb gorillas have been subdued by tranquizers so that they cannot do harm to themselves or others. One need only glance at our US Congress to see the power of the minority to hold back the steamroller of the majority. And comparing something as disfuctional as the Congress to USAPA is giving Congress alot of credit. Why not checktwelve and choose progress over stalemate?

Stalemate? How so? You are a non-member of a democratic organization charged with the oversight of your career. You have elected to have no voice. Just how much stopping power do you and 1800 other non-members think you can muster?

As has been said before, your best option is to get involved with the process so that your voice is heard. Personally, I don't care what you do. But you do have a right to voice an opinion and participate in the decision making process. Regardless of my thoughts of your "opinion;" you do have that right and I would never take that away. But that is not my choice, that is yours.

You guys are being mislead but you will have to be the ones that figure that out. I was sent a link today that highlights what the AWAPPA leaders are saying and doing, it's the wrong direction but it's also a choice. I was also impressed with what impartial observers had to say about the AWAPPA leadership.

Here's the link if you're interested: AWAPPA UPDATE

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

USAPA is going to take all the time necessary to effectively negotiate an integrated agreement and seniority list. But let me take this one step further, since you have chosen to protest in silence and not join the association the question you might ask yourself is what will be the result of my actions? The obvious one is that you do not have a say in the direction the association chooses, that of course is decided by its membership. In effect, you are along for the ride and your opinion is of little or no importance.

I would not be comfortable with that choice to be quite honest, Cactus Boy. And since you have chosen non-membership I am sure some might suggest that you quit your whining, after all, its destined only to fall on deaf ears.

This argument is getting old. You showed us by voting in the angry fo club with the majority and now you want our input? Get out of the house the fumes are getting to you!!

The angry fo schills have told us over and over we have a lottery ticket that's not cashable. Have you ever thought that a so called union that excludes and places a portion of its members in a disadvantaged position not a union at all? Aren't unions about protecting the little guy?

After all didn't a portion of your group get a windfall by being recalled? Didn't a portion of your group get to upgrade instead of being furloughed? Didn't we all get to stay employed?

Like it or not the east needed the west and the west need the east.

The question that keeps being asked here and never answered is a simple one- Given the east pilot groups' past actions how can anyone trust their future actions?