ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week 5/22 to 5/29

[767jetz]

Splitting hairs aren't we?

Not at all. But no surprise that you don't see it that way since it flies in the face of your position. Very typical.

Would you care to explain to me how one group could achieve a windfall absent the expense of the other?

Sure. I'd love to. (However I have a feeling the lesson would be lost on you since you tend to dismiss anything that does not conform to your view of the world.)

Just one example off the top of my head. If both groups were to negotiate a new pay scale with raises, but due to disparate original wages, one group ends up with a 5% raise while the other ends up with a 20% increase, this may be seen as a windfall by some. However, since it is not at the expense of the other group, it is perfectly acceptable.

By your definition, altering LOA 93 in order to get pay parity with the West would be a windfall to you and therefore unacceptable. But of course your tune changes when we talk of that subject. Perhaps it would be fair to you if whatever percentage of a raise you get to bring you up to current West rates could also be applied to the West so they will still make more than you? I'm sure you be agreeable to this so that there is no windfall on your part, right?

How about benefits from synergies? Let's say that you have 2 flights per week from PHL to CDG on a 330. But since the merger, the additional feed from PHX has made it possible to support a 3rd flight per week to CDG. Keep in mind this is not a new route, just one additional frequency to an established route. Is this a windfall to the East as a result of the merger? Sure. But it didn't come at the West's expense. The extra connecting traffic pushed the numbers in PHL over the threshold to support the additional flight. Under your definition, this should not be allowed! I'm sure you'd be agreeable to letting the West pilots fly some of these PHL-CDG flights on the A330 so that there is no windfall on your part, right?

its not relevant - same outcome either way you look at it.

Yes it most certainly is. - and no it most certainly is not.

Out of curiosity, why is a UAL pilot involving himself in an internal labor issue of US Airways?

Because I happen to support the West pilots in their fight to protect themselves from the slight of hand you are trying to foist upon them. And the fact that merger integration is every pilot's business. But I understand that it is difficult for you when reasonable arguments that shine light on reality and cast doubt on your position are introduced. Hence your desire to silence any opposing views.

 

[cactusboy53]

Definitely should put the west on LOA 93, were bleeding way to much for comfort!!!!

Nice & seemingly typical: First you wish to steal our seniority and now you want to steel our money. You just don't get it, do you buddy? Integrity matters. This is going to be a long and fruitless battle. Had you gone the path less traveled, you would have been enjoying a better contract, benefits and time off. My crystal ball shows many DFR lawsuits in USAPA's future (and anyone tied to them). :down:

 

[sharktooth]

Those who inquired about becoming a rep were told they had to uphold the CB&L's including DOH.

I did not read the complete USAPA C&BLs (to help you, it is Constitution and By Laws and not Constitution By and Laws - your former ALPA reps keep making that mistake also), but, it seems to me that the operative phrase was length of service.

Also, many of our elected officials swear to uphold the US Constitution though few do. Swearing to uphold the constitution is normal. Forcing someone to swear by a "loyalty oath", like ALPA, the Republicans and the Mafia, is not.

 

[sharktooth]

... from the slight of hand you ....

It is "sleigh" of hand and not slight. Unless you are talking about tiny hands.

 

[prechilill]

It is "sleigh" of hand and not slight. Unless you are talking about tiny hands.

It is truly entertaining watching some of you on here. I wonder how you will even get your next job after furlough.
The correct word is "sleight" not "sleigh".

 

[Piedmont1984]

It is "sleigh" of hand and not slight. Unless you are talking about tiny hands.

sleight of hand

 

[Piedmont1984]

It is truly entertaining watching some of you on here. I wonder how you will even get your next job after furlough.
The correct word is "sleight" not "sleigh".

I'z gonna teech Inglish.

 

[sharktooth]

The correct word is "sleight" not "sleigh".

Oops, and thanks. Got that from a crystal ball. My copy/paste missed the "t".

and, to correct my lack of 'merikan, it is "sleight of hand" and not "sleight" of hand, either. I learned everything I know from my hero, Bush.

 

[EastUS]

But if you expected and still demand better, tell Bradford to do whatever is necessary to ignore the vocal minority extremists........

No problem therein. By your chosen lack of participation at any level...the "vocal minority extremists" aren't having any effect on things as it stands. ...a truly "brilliant" strategy on the west's part I'd say, but..hey, knock yourselves out.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

QUOTE (westcoastflyer @ May 25 2008, 07:35 PM)
If I'm not mistaken, hasn't EVERY other employee group merged their new seniority lists by date-of-hire? I don't see endless complaining and sniveling from these other groups. They have simply moved on and have gotten better contracts going forward. What makes the pilots so much different? Why don't you guys learn the meaning of compromise and cooperation, move forward yourselves, and improve the lives of all involved?"



"The difference is the Nicolau award." "And that's why the west pilots have fire in their eyes and are poised to fight this war to the bloody end - and why we plan to be the group standing tall when all is said and done." Yadda, yadda.....yawn....snore.. Yet more "heroic" westie "war"I see.. "poised to fight this war to the bloody end"....even on Memorial Day...Perhaps you've heard of it? = A Day when we do pay proper homage and Honor to people that actually DO, really Fight to the bloody end?...GROW UP!!! or at least, actually start getting "bloody",via taking your heroic, "integrity"-filled, selfish and self-righteous, immature arses to a real war (They're tragically, currently available..just check with your nearest recruiter)....and see how much fun that would truly be....That shouldn't be ANY problem for all those noble, self-ascribed AWA heroes with such "fire in their eyes"...especially when clearly gifted with such selfless "integrity"...Sheesh!... GROW UP!!!

"INTEGRITY MATTERS" As in; your notion of such? =Yeah...Riiiight...Have a White Feather and even a spare kitchen apron or two, as proper gifts to honor your fierce heroics...oh glorious "warrior", so ready to "fight this war to the bloody end".....Pathetic....Truly Pathetic.

PS: I'll merely suggest Visine for that "fire in their eyes".

east -

Pretty much everyone who reads this tirade can tell that you have a deep underlying problem. Maybe you got doused with some Agent Orange as a teen or something - I don't know.

But in any case, you need to relax a bit and think through the things you post here. Because emotional epistles such as the one here provide no contribution to the discussions we're having.

An earlier poster mentioned that all currently merged employee groups were grouped by DOH integration methods. That may be true, but what also is true is that all employee groups that went to arbitration complied with the outcome of said arbitrations.

Except you fusapa eastyz.

And that is the reason we westyz are ready to stand our ground. We already hold the overwhelming advantage of formal process on our side. In the future you will see that the courts of the land will favor what we have already earned as well.

Meanwhile, all you can do is stand there stomping your feet, wimpering about DOH until you're blue in the face, and continue to pay those inflated dues and assessments toward a hobbled union that was a bad idea to begin with and will be shown to be an expensive and failed experiment for you when your fellow eastyz finally wake up to reality.

So yes:

INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[Piedmont1984]

east -




Except you fusapa eastyz.





NLC

Moderators, this isn't the first time this jerk has used the slur above. Will someone kindly escort the "captain" to the cornfield? If I use the term asswappa westyz, will I get deported?

 

[fr8tmastr]

. My crystal ball shows many DFR lawsuits in USAPA's future (and anyone tied to them). :down:

Oh for crying out loud, would you guys just file them already!

 

[fatherabraham]

east -

Pretty much everyone who reads this tirade can tell that you have a deep underlying problem. Maybe you got doused with some Agent Orange as a teen or something - I don't know.


NLC

NLC,
Guess not this "everyone". I see no fault with his logic. Yours a different story!
Note I need not insult you to express a view.
FA

 

[EastUS]

east -

Pretty much everyone who reads this tirade can tell that you have a deep underlying problem. Maybe you got doused with some Agent Orange as a teen or something - I don't know.

Actually? = No. I was very fortunate, and am still in one piece..and there wasn't any agent orange around anyway ....just some open-air, chemistry set experiments at times.I have no excessive delusions about having any "fire in my eyes"...nor seek joy through imagining any "fight this war to the bloody end" BS...so..I indulge the notion that I'm at least semi-sane...but, I appreciate your heartfelt concern sir.

"Pretty much everyone who reads this tirade can tell that you have a deep underlying problem. Maybe you got doused with some Agent Orange as a teen or something - I don't know."
"And that's why the west pilots have fire in their eyes and are poised to fight this war to the bloody end - and why we plan to be the group standing tall when all is said and done."
"Because emotional epistles such as the one here provide no contribution to the discussions we're having."

"An earlier poster mentioned that all currently merged employee groups were grouped by DOH integration methods. That may be true,.." That "may" be true?..or it IS true?...There's a significant difference between "may" and "is", just fyi.

"INTEGRITY MATTERS" Yes it does.

 

[CactusFlyr]

Yep, integrity does matter and the irony is, here's another one of these fabrications.

No one is forcing anyone to swear allegiance to something they believe is wrong. If you believe strongly that a position your union has taken is wrong then make an argument to change it. If your argument is valid and strong enough to affect change then that will be the result. ALPA has had numerous changes to the ALPA Admin manual and C&BL over the years. But pilots were never told they cannot become members if they disagreed with every written word embodied within those documents. The same holds true with USAPA, if you don't like it - change it. It's a democratic organization and there is a democratic methodology to affect that change.

If you truly want to change something that you firmly believe is wrong then be constructive and responsible with your actions; get involved. This close your eyes and pretend USAPA doesn't exist is about as ineffective as one can get - the only result you will get with that effort is status quo.

First of all it is not my union, never will be. Second, the west is not stupid enough to ever believe that they will have a voice that will override your numbers. You guys outnumber us significantly which is the ONLY reason we are where we are. I refuse to play your game.