AAG announces changes at DCA and LGA

[700UW]

Back in the early to Mid 90s we tried to amend the RLA to make it more like the NLRA, but the airlines and republicans fought against it.
 
And anyhow, you know the RLA is a tool to prevent the stoppage of interstate commerce, airlines werent even around when it was written and enacted.
 
It was to stop all the wildcat railroad strikes and the trade off was to allow the workers to unionize.
 
The law sucks and it has always favored the company.

 

[eolesen]

And yet, with the most labor friendly evah Congress and POTUS, all the dry powder got wasted in 2009 on EFCA and Obamacare, instead of doing something that might have actually benefitted labor.

 

[700UW]

Spin spins spin.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I refer you back to one of E's posts whereby he all but says that the disappearance of Envoy would--- in my words--- be a mere hiccup to the operation going forward. I recently chatted with a new hire at AE who recently completed a 4 year college aviation major. He said at the outset, classes were well attended, but toward his senior year, many students had drifted away into other fields. This is also a reality that some don't apparently grasp as they possibly overshoot their own perceived leverage. Separately, in the context of the divestiture I'm noticing a redeployment of assets at LGA. I'm wondering who will fly these new routes:                                                                                      "...As a result of the DOJ-required 17 slot pair divestitures at LGA, American will no longer operate nonstop service to Atlanta, Cleveland and Minneapolis. However, changes to the schedule made possible by the combined network of American and US Airways will provide opportunities for new service to 10 communities.  New service from LGA includes:

Charlottesville, Va.[/size]
Little Rock, Ark.[/size]
Roanoke, Va.[/size]
Dayton, Ohio[/size]
Louisville, Ky.[/size]
Wilmington, N.C.[/size]
Greensboro, N.C.[/size]
Norfolk, Va.[/size]
 
Knoxville, Tenn.[/size]
Richmond, Va.[/size]

the list of markets where AA is pulling back and adding very closely align with their overall market strength in those cities overall... it isn't a great surprise.

 

[dash8roa]

Unfortunately, there is only 1 transit system operator in NYC, so there is nobody to pick up the slack during a strike.  Also the city caved relatively fast since taxpayers, as we all know, are an unlimited source of revenue .... ... ...

If US walked out, the vacuum would be filled fairly soon as they were the smallest legacy and many stored aircraft in the desert could be brought back to service. It would at first have created some problems but the company would have blinked first. I don't think the walkout would have lasted more than a week or two.

 

[jimntx]

If the employees would actually walk out.  If  a wildcat strike started, the company would be in Federal court so fast it would make your head swim citing the RLA prohibition against strikes at an airline until the bargaining agent (union or company) has been released into self-help.  The judge would have to issue an injunction ordering the strikers back to work.  If they resisted the union leaders would go to jail for contempt of court and likely remain there until the workers returned to work.
 
Wanna bet your union leaders are willing to go to jail?  I'm fairly certain mine wouldn't be willing to spend even 5 minutes behind bars for the sake of the cause.
 
And, if the company was the party released into self-help.  They could simply lockout the striking union.  They've said they would shut Envoy down, but that remains to be seen.

 

[MetalMover]

Jim, I'm not anti-union, and I haven't been in airline management for over seven years. I'm just willing to let the free market play out without artificial barriers or interference, something that you've correctly noted as being far from the case with airline labor contracts.

My opinion for quite some time has been that airline labor would be far better off if it were't for the RLA and NMB. I've never understood why there's such resistance by the unions to moving under the Wagner Act and the NRLB vs. RLA and the NMB. You'd lose closed shop, but I see more upside than not, i.e contracts that actually expire vs. continuing on in perpetuity, the ability to walk off the job without asking "mother, may I?", and contract lengths that are typically no more than 4 years.

Ya gotta love the "LET THE FREE MARKET PLAY OUT" argument. 
Companies running to bankruptcy courts in business-favorable NYC with business friendly judges getting labor agreements tossed!
Obama makes "pro-labor" appointments to the NLRB, and the pro-market, pro management members of Congress
scream holy hell and are heading to the Supreme Court to challenge the "recess" appointments.
I guess they had no problem when the NLRB was stacked with PRO BUSINESS board members. Not a peep out of them.
 
And then when unions do actually get to strike, especially if they are public sector unions, right away it's a trip to a courthouse to get a judge to impose an injunction on the strikers. Union leaders threatened with jail time and strikers threatened with termination even after staging a legal strike.
 
Yea....let the free market play out. 

 

[eolesen]

What a bunch of tired, empty arguments...

1) AMR spent between many years at the bargaining table with its unions before resorting to bankruptcy. If that's running, I'd hate to see crawling.

2) Obama's the one running to the court -- his recess appointments were thrown out on appeal by three different courts, so this is the last stop for him to complain that his interpretation of the Constitution is more correct than everyone else's is. It's about abuse of power, not who is sitting on the NLRB.

3) Public sector who are barred from striking by state law can't have a legal strike, so how exactly can they stage a legal strike that gets injuncted?

 

[jimntx]

E, let's be objective now.  Being at the negotiating table for years and negotiating in good faith (which AMR did NOT do during the entire process) are two different things.  They just sat there and made the same demands over and over--We want all of A and at least 90% of B.  When the union made a counter-proposal, the company's response was "Fine.  As long as we get all of A and at least 90% of B."  In the meantime, the company was handing out bonuses to the execs like they were penny candy.

 

[dash8roa]

If the employees would actually walk out.  If  a wildcat strike started, the company would be in Federal court so fast it would make your head swim citing the RLA prohibition against strikes at an airline until the bargaining agent (union or company) has been released into self-help.  The judge would have to issue an injunction ordering the strikers back to work.  If they resisted the union leaders would go to jail for contempt of court and likely remain there until the workers returned to work.
 
Wanna bet your union leaders are willing to go to jail?  I'm fairly certain mine wouldn't be willing to spend even 5 minutes behind bars for the sake of the cause.

And, if the company was the party released into self-help. They could simply lockout the striking union. They've said they would shut Envoy down, but that remains to be seen.

The unions have not cared about the workers when one looks at how many times they caved in. At US we had the IAM and the contract they got from the company was a joke. For years I was hoping for a union rep to show up so I could ask how big was the boat he got for signing off on a contract that did not provide a liveable wage.
A strike lasting just a few days would bring the company to its knees. The RLA effectively kills any chances of organized labor getting a fair shake. Getting released into self-help is a lost cause because the delay tactics used allows companies to preempt any action by the workers.
Hard to imagine a judge ordering workers to return to their jobs, so much for the right to choose ones employment.

 

[700UW]

We went on strike against US in 1992, hate to tell you this, but they still flew.
 
And the I was on the NC in 2004/2005 we didnt get anything.
 
Why would you make up lies?
 
Bottom line is the US filed chapter 11 twice in less than two years, the law forces concessionary bargaining, otherwise you get an abrogation, which is what happened to the M&R in 2005.
 
And in 99 when we got an great CBA, and lots of raises, personally I got a $3.35 an hour raise DOS.
 
So what would you have done?

 

[MetalMover]

What a bunch of tired, empty arguments...

1) AMR spent between many years at the bargaining table with its unions before resorting to bankruptcy. If that's running, I'd hate to see crawling.

2) Obama's the one running to the court -- his recess appointments were thrown out on appeal by three different courts, so this is the last stop for him to complain that his interpretation of the Constitution is more correct than everyone else's is. It's about abuse of power, not who is sitting on the NLRB.

3) Public sector who are barred from striking by state law can't have a legal strike, so how exactly can they stage a legal strike that gets injuncted?

1) I said "companies" going to  a pro business bankruptcy court in NYC. I never said AMR, let alone airlines.
 
2) The conservative congress are only upset that he appointed PRO LABOR board members.
    Had the appointments been PRO BUSINESS, they wouldn't care when or how the recess appointments were made.
 
3) Gee, I wonder what the TAYLOR LAW is all about.
 
But since you are the Clarence Darrow and Warren Buffet of everything airline, I defer to your superior all knowing wisdom.
 
What's getting real old is your anti labor condascending know-all-all answers that labor is the problem and never management. 

 

[eolesen]

Yawn.

 

[MetalMover]

Yawn.

I guess only your anti union diatribe is worth anything. It's old and tiring!

 

[eolesen]

Bottom line is that this is the AA forum, and the topic has decided to now turn it into a combination of a "Union Now!" and "Occupy Wall Street" diatribe...

When you're ready to start discussing a little more something specific to AA, let us know.

Until then, you're just bringing up arguments that have been flogged to death on this forum for the past 14 years.