AAG announces changes at DCA and LGA

[MAH4546]

(although I believe AA used to do well YUL-MIA but I don't know if that is still the case, but I digress) 

 
Miami is Montreal's third largest O&D market after Toronto and Vancouver. AA does plenty well, and is YUL's largest U.S. carrier and the only one flying mainline to Montreal. 

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Not in his eyes! As I said before all good for dl and nothing for the rest! As far as those flight changes I doubt Dl will get any slots at dca id imagine wn would add atl-dca lga etc

I seriously doubt that down at DL headquarters Bubba, Skeeter, and LouAnne-EllieMae are breaking open new jars of moonshine and tuning up the banjo for a victory song n' dance after reading the press release.  US had more-or-less 3-4 daily flights to DTW and MSP on RJs (E170).  If DL the magnificent was so threatened by these US flights to hubs where DL + DL Connection operate approx. 250-300 daily flights - which I doubt they were, but if you buy WT premise - one would have to assume that DL isn't that magnificent and is going to get clobbered by AA/US (and naturally this could explain why WT got his panties in a wad when the merger was announced .... )

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Maybe WestJet is picking up slot and will do DCA-YUL, they do codeshare with AA dont they?

I don't believe WestJet operates YUL-DCA.  They do codeshare with AA and perhaps if they get some of the DCA slots could start YUL-DCA.  However, if I was in charge of re-allocating the divested AA/US slots at DCA and LGA, I would hesitate to give them to a foreign carrier.  I know its Canada and really it is just like a 51rst state or the USA is really just a 11th province, but WestJet might not be at the top of  my list of carriers to give DCA (and LGA) slots to.

 

[eolesen]

Most of those places have military bases. Would you prefer our armed forces go back to the Greyhound?  ;-)

Red herring. Boots don't fly to DCA or LGA, and the few seats that were being booked were for contractors or brass. They can connect just fine or take the corporate jet. Or, as they're doing more and more, they can use video conferencing...

All these cuts also go to the heart of what I was saying in the "state of the Eagle" thread --- there's lots of RJ capacity that can come out of the merged schedule, which in turn will put more pressure on the regionals who didn't learn the lessons of Comair.

 

[RJcasualty]

Red herring. Boots don't fly to DCA or LGA, and the few seats that were being booked were for contractors or brass. They can connect just fine or take the corporate jet. Or, as they're doing more and more, they can use video conferencing...

All these cuts also go to the heart of what I was saying in the "state of the Eagle" thread --- there's lots of RJ capacity that can come out of the merged schedule, which in turn will put more pressure on the regionals who didn't learn the lessons of Comair.

I'll put you--- diplomatically speaking--- in the category of "the country doesn't need an envoy".

 

[Jacobin777]

Looks like a victory for DL. greatly reduced service from DCA and LGA to DL hubs and strength markets.

 
...and how profitable has DL been out of New York? Do tell us WT. <_<

 

[robbedagain]

Not as profitable as other cities and hubs plus asia and europe he said in the dl forum!

 

[eolesen]

I'll put you--- diplomatically speaking--- in the category of "the country doesn't need an envoy".

Maybe you should put me in the "negotiating from a falsely perceived position of power usually ends badly" category.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL has said NYC is not as profitable as they want. but 2.5B in profits and starting a new strategic push in the west says DL knows where they need to go and how to get there.

 

[RJcasualty]

Maybe you should put me in the "negotiating from a falsely perceived position of power usually ends badly" category.

Thus in your world, curtailed regional air service and further future mergers will solve any pilot shortage. Any connection between regional recruitment and mainline careers is fantasy. Any wage devaluing the pilot profession is OK. They will come because they love to fly. It occurs to me that all the back and forth between yourself and others on the state of the industry lacks an important element--- the pilots who would actually fly those airplanes in the future.

 

[jimntx]

No, E has always been airline management--which by definition is anti-union.  He has also seen multiple examples of unions talking big, but since Federal law precludes union members just walking off the job without being released from negotiation by the NMB, and since the NMB rarely rules that the company (whoever it is) is not negotiating in good faith, it rarely releases airline unions to self-help.  And, since the union leadership (whoever that is) are generally not willing to go to jail (contempt of court, etc) in support of their "principles", E knows that the odds of a wildcat strike by an airline union are less than zero.
 
The only way for Envoy (it's going to be hard to remember this) pilots to find out if DP and company are serious is to call their bluff by striking--NMB or no NMB, or to drag out negotiatons until DP either caves (unlikely) or shuts down the Envoy regional operation.
 
This is called political/economic reality.  There ain't nobody in Washington, D.C. willing to let large parts of the country to suddenly be without air service in order to counter the unfair (and I agree with you that they are) demands of the company.

 

[RJcasualty]

No, E has always been airline management--which by definition is anti-union.  He has also seen multiple examples of unions talking big, but since Federal law precludes union members just walking off the job without being released from negotiation by the NMB, and since the NMB rarely rules that the company (whoever it is) is not negotiating in good faith, it rarely releases airline unions to self-help.  And, since the union leadership (whoever that is) are generally not willing to go to jail (contempt of court, etc) in support of their "principles", E knows that the odds of a wildcat strike by an airline union are less than zero.
 
The only way for Envoy (it's going to be hard to remember this) pilots to find out if DP and company are serious is to call their bluff by striking--NMB or no NMB, or to drag out negotiatons until DP either caves (unlikely) or shuts down the Envoy regional operation.
 
This is called political/economic reality.  There ain't nobody in Washington, D.C. willing to let large parts of the country to suddenly be without air service in order to counter the unfair (and I agree with you that they are) demands of the company.

I refer you back to one of E's posts whereby he all but says that the disappearance of Envoy would--- in my words--- be a mere hiccup to the operation going forward. I recently chatted with a new hire at AE who recently completed a 4 year college aviation major. He said at the outset, classes were well attended, but toward his senior year, many students had drifted away into other fields. This is also a reality that some don't apparently grasp as they possibly overshoot their own perceived leverage. Separately, in the context of the divestiture I'm noticing a redeployment of assets at LGA. I'm wondering who will fly these new routes:                                                                                      "...As a result of the DOJ-required 17 slot pair divestitures at LGA, American will no longer operate nonstop service to Atlanta, Cleveland and Minneapolis. However, changes to the schedule made possible by the combined network of American and US Airways will provide opportunities for new service to 10 communities.  New service from LGA includes:

[SIZE=8pt]Charlottesville, Va.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Little Rock, Ark.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Roanoke, Va.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Dayton, Ohio[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Louisville, Ky.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Wilmington, N.C.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Greensboro, N.C.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Norfolk, Va.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=8pt]Knoxville, Tenn.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Richmond, Va.[/SIZE]

 

[dash8roa]

No, E has always been airline management--which by definition is anti-union.  He has also seen multiple examples of unions talking big, but since Federal law precludes union members just walking off the job without being released from negotiation by the NMB, and since the NMB rarely rules that the company (whoever it is) is not negotiating in good faith, it rarely releases airline unions to self-help.  And, since the union leadership (whoever that is) are generally not willing to go to jail (contempt of court, etc) in support of their "principles", E knows that the odds of a wildcat strike by an airline union are less than zero.
 
The only way for Envoy (it's going to be hard to remember this) pilots to find out if DP and company are serious is to call their bluff by striking--NMB or no NMB, or to drag out negotiatons until DP either caves (unlikely) or shuts down the Envoy regional operation.
 
This is called political/economic reality.  There ain't nobody in Washington, D.C. willing to let large parts of the country to suddenly be without air service in order to counter the unfair (and I agree with you that they are) demands of the company.

The New York transit union walked off the job several times in the past and it was amazing how fast the city settled. I remember when US went through two chapter 11's and the talk from the rank and file on this forum was tough, but just talk. The line used over and over was "the concession stand is closed". In the end, the company got what it wanted.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The New York transit union walked off the job several times in the past and it was amazing how fast the city settled. I remember when US went through two chapter 11's and the talk from the rank and file on this forum was tough, but just talk. The line used over and over was "the concession stand is closed". In the end, the company got what it wanted.

Unfortunately, there is only 1 transit system operator in NYC, so there is nobody to pick up the slack during a strike.  Also the city caved relatively fast since taxpayers, as we all know, are an unlimited source of revenue .... ... ...

 

[eolesen]

Not all of the NY transit workers are covered by the RLA, so it's a totally different world in terms of negotiating. If I recall, NYCTA are covered by the Taylor Act (NY law, since they're not considered a railroad per se and not engaged in interstate transportation), which has different rules. And, the TWU got fined fairly steeply for their violations of the Taylor Act ($1M per day).

Jim, I'm not anti-union, and I haven't been in airline management for over seven years. I'm just willing to let the free market play out without artificial barriers or interference, something that you've correctly noted as being far from the case with airline labor contracts.

My opinion for quite some time has been that airline labor would be far better off if it were't for the RLA and NMB. I've never understood why there's such resistance by the unions to moving under the Wagner Act and the NRLB vs. RLA and the NMB. You'd lose closed shop, but I see more upside than not, i.e contracts that actually expire vs. continuing on in perpetuity, the ability to walk off the job without asking "mother, may I?", and contract lengths that are typically no more than 4 years.