Perimeter restrictions at DCA & LGA

[HPearlyretiree]

A LGA-PHX flight would be fantastic.

It would also be full!

 

[phllax]

Just a FYI, CO flies a 737-700 n/s from SNA-EWR, and the runway at SNA is only 5,701 ft long. Remeber that TWA flew DCA-LAX on the 757 and the main runway at DCA, is only 6,869 ft long. So being LGA has 7001 and 7003 foot runways and is at sea level, it shouldn't be a problem to get a 757 n/s to SFO or LAX.

Keep in mind that DL tried Saturday only LAX-LGA service a few years back with the 757 and it didn't last long. People have been programmed to go to JFK or EWR for service to the West Coast.

 

[700UW]

The Port Authority wants to keep the transcons at JFK and EWR, that is why the perimeter rules exist.

 

[JS]

Given the capacity constraints at LGA, the perimeter rule makes sense. JFK was built for a reason, so use it!

 

[Airline Employee]

Perimeter rules at LGA are controlled by the Port Authority of NY & NJ. The perimeter rules at DCA are controlled (I believe) by the FAA.

At DCA, the FAA has allowed a few exceptions here and there; at LGA, the PANYNJ has made noises about changing things, but moves at a pace that would make a snail seem supersonic.

At LGA, the perimeter rules are suspended on weekends. Go figure.

Wow, I did not know that a local port authority could tell an airline where they could fly to. That is the Federal Governments authority. I just researched this and this case did go to the federal courts and since the government didn't object too strongly the NY, NJ Port Authority said that they were "alleviating congestion" so they were given authority to implement these rules. Well there's still congestion in the NYC airspace so perimeter rules didn't work too well.

Even LGB doesn't have perimeter restrictions. They just limit the amount of planes that can fly there each day and the times they can fly. They never tell the airline where they can fly or where they can't fly.

Perimeter rules are anticompetitive and airlines should sue to stop them. I'm sure the federal courts would rule agains the NY & NJ Port Authority in 2009.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Give it up.

 

[ClueByFour]

Perimeter rules are anticompetitive and airlines should sue to stop them. I'm sure the federal courts would rule agains the NY & NJ Port Authority in 2009.

Ever wonder why nobody has funded a lawsuit like the one you suggest (including the airlines who stand to make a ton of money by winning it)?

 

[Hope777]

Here is a Brief from the Delta vs PANYNJ in the late 80's. Dont expect any Airline to take on the PANYNJ ( A Goverment Agency ).

http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/1987/sg870171.txt

 

[LGA / 037]

The "perimeter rule" which is non FAA and strictly Port Authority rule has quite a few ramifications if relaxed. First of all the the 1500 mile rule which prohibits scheduled commercial flights to operate beyond 1,500 miles of LGA with the exception of 0600 Saturday and 1200 Sunday was desined so EWR,JFK and LGA would not compete with each other ( PA oversee all 3 airports) did have its grandfather clauses. AA and DL were able and AA still Flies LGA/DFW. UA and CO were able and UA still flies LGA/DEN. CO flies to IAH. F9 was granted 6 slots (3 arrivals and 3 departures) after 2000 and only utilizes 4 slots currently. Even HP was granted sole routes of LGA/OMA and ICT for government guarenteed revenue purposes back in the day but later relinquished when HP tried the CMH expieriment. If the Port was to relinquish "exclusive" rights in exchange for take off and landing slots it would no do doubt lead to legal ramifications from the other airline tenants at LGA. If the Port even came up with a stipulation such as you can only fly to an airline HUB (in exchange for slots?) airlines such as UA would shut down at JFK all together as they have abandoned their international presense there and would fly only to their LAX and SFO hubs. All other Airlines such as AA and NW (DL) would pull down schedules at JFK and fly to LAX and SEA. Even B6 would pull down JFK flying and fly to SLC and LGB out of LGA. The bottom line is I see the Port in a situation where Airways is offering slots for rights to PHX and the Port just wants to resell them to another airline (WN) as they can make even more money instead of relieving the over-congested airspace at and over LGA. That will ultimaetly be Airways argument if there is no relief in negotiations in getting access to the PHX HUB.

PS. WN got their 7 non-stops from ATA via bankruptsy and rumor has it American is in negotiations to sub-lease 52 addition slots (26 arrival/26 landing) that had originally been operated by subsidiary American Eagle.

 

[N924PS]

US did PIT-OMA. On RJ. That's why nobody wanted to fly it.

US once did PIT-OMA PIT-DSM in the Fokker F100. Nobody flew it much then either, even though it was on a larger gauge jet. The OMA route was around when Warren Buffett invested in USAir.

 

[phllax]

US once did PIT-OMA PIT-DSM in the Fokker F100. Nobody flew it much then either, even though it was on a larger gauge jet. The OMA route was around when Warren Buffett invested in USAir.

There's just little to no demand from the mid-west/great plains to any hub other than ORD & DEN for the most part. That's why UA sends multiple full 757's to OMA daily. DSM saw them and had two RON some nights until they started grounding the 737's in the fall and there's mostly E70's to ORD now, but still mainline to DEN and a few to ORD.