AAA thread 11/2-11/8

[EastUS]

Auqagreen, Cockroach, recent ALPA supporters, Nic fever clouds the memory.

May 2006, alpa sucks, May 2007, ALPA was the best. Click here for the amazing transition.

If the Nic buzz could be chemically refined....the crack/meth trades out west would be in jeopardy. Pre Nic? = "Alpa SUCKS"...Post Nic? = "I see skies of blue...rainbows too...and I say to myself..what a wonderful world". I've sadly concluded that those guys just honestly haven't the tiniest clue as to what the future's likely to hold for them if things/Alpo don't change/go. We're all enmeshed in a typical, and classic Alpo cluster-F, and still?: The Nic blinders seem too tightly fitted for any larger perceptions to be possible out west.

I'll confess that my empathy for the west's not at an all time high lately, but: This is truly a sad situation for us all. Thanks a whole heck of a lot Alpo...another great job of enhancing "brotherhood" and again proving to be such a worthy "association"...not, in any way, to be confused with being an actual union.

 

[pilot]

Ok Piedmont prove me wrong, file the cards Save your energy brother you don't have it and never did!! usapa sits hoping that something will turn the tides for you to have enough cards but there are way too many intelligent pilots on the east that won't trust no, DESTROY the remainder of their careers on the usapa pipe dream that could and would never deliver!! usapa is just like your current mec, selling you dreams and lies that they can't produce. File the cards piedmont, AAA73, EastUs any of you I DARE YOU!!! DO it.

You won't, you can't and never will. Prove me wrong boys File what you have and do it monday.

Thank you for calling in, this is the USAPA daily message for Friday, November 2nd 2007.

Last month USAPA’s leaders planned for an NMB filing during October. We want you to know that USAPA has sufficient cards in hand to force a representation election for the US Airways pilots. A large majority of active US Airways pilots plus many others who may be considered eligible under NMB rules have submitted their cards.

While we have the cards we legitimately need, we have received reports during the last week suggesting that the current bargaining agent may have designed a timetable around our planned filing to commandeer our MEC (or one or more of our local councils) by placing them into trusteeship soon after we file. They clearly don’t want to provoke an additional margin of submitted cards. We have also been advised recently to expect an artificially inflated eligible pilot list to be provided by US Airways to the NMB, which could make our filing more time-consuming due to eligibility challenges.

With these factors in mind, we have elected to delay our filing by a few days to see what may transpire from ALPA National’s upcoming “loyaltyâ€￾ meetings that the US Airways pilot’s elected leadership has been ordered to attend in Washington.

Thank you for listening.

 

[nycbusdriver]

We have also been advised recently to expect an artificially inflated eligible pilot list to be provided by US Airways to the NMB, which could make our filing more time-consuming due to eligibility challenges.

There SHOULD be a hefty fine for the company if they submit a grossly inflated/deflated list. The NMB should allow about a 2% slop factor, then $50,000 per name that either does not belong there or should be on the list but is missing.

With all of the furloughees recalled, putting together an accurate list should be fairly straightforward. The company knows without fail who gets a paycheck twice a month. That should take care of 98% of the accuracy issue. Then a careful analysis of those on leaves of various types and those management pilots should yield a very accurate list fairly quickly.

 

[Best_Guess]

There SHOULD be a hefty fine for the company if they submit a grossly inflated/deflated list. The NMB should allow about a 2% slop factor, then $50,000 per name that either does not belong there or should be on the list but is missing.

With all of the furloughees recalled, putting together an accurate list should be fairly straightforward. The company knows without fail who gets a paycheck twice a month. That should take care of 98% of the accuracy issue. Then a careful analysis of those on leaves of various types and those management pilots should yield a very accurate list fairly quickly.

I believe the problem may be how to account for those that may be employed i.e. flow through, or potential flow through etc.

 

[AWA320]

It's hugely amusing to watch these guys go apoplectic over this stuff. If we hold out on the cards another few weeks, half the westies will be in the coronary ICU and then USAPA will be a shoo-in.

Oh please, most of us look upon you usapa clowns as fakes!! You provide cheap entertainment to watch alpa national squirm but they too will soon realize that you all are just a bunch of fakes. Huff and puff but never have the air to blow the house down.

Personally I know you don't have the cards! As always you over play your hand and let the world know that you hold losers. You see if you hat ALPA so much and it ONLY about that then you would have done it already. No instead you wait to see if the west will break and give in, news flash boys and girls, we won't!!! Binding is binding our pilots have spoken and told our reps this No deals, accept and move on so you had best just file those 3000 cards and lets get on with the get'in on

 

[nycbusdriver]

I believe the problem may be how to account for those that may be employed i.e. flow through, or potential flow through etc.

There is no flow through in any contract at this time. "Potential" flow through has been around here for at least the last 20 years. The NMB will deal with what is, not what ifs. What is really interesting is that the NMB may not have yet even declared the AWA and AAA pilot groups as a single entity. That opens up even more possibilities.

Oh please, most of us look upon you usapa clowns as fakes!! You provide cheap entertainment to watch alpa national squirm but they too will soon realize that you all are just a bunch of fakes. Huff and puff but never have the air to blow the house down.

Personally I know you don't have the cards! As always you over play your hand and let the world know that you hold losers. You see if you hat ALPA so much and it ONLY about that then you would have done it already. No instead you wait to see if the west will break and give in, news flash boys and girls, we won't!!! Binding is binding our pilots have spoken and told our reps this No deals, accept and move on so you had best just file those 3000 cards and lets get on with the get'in on

PERSONALLY you know that USAPA doesn't have the cards? They let you in to count them yourself? How kind of them. Or is that just more of your typical bloviation?



I'm bidin' my time....

 

[EastUS]

Oh please, most of us look upon you usapa clowns as fakes!! You provide cheap entertainment to watch alpa national squirm but they too will soon realize that you all are just a bunch of fakes. Huff and puff but never have the air to blow the house down.

Personally I know you don't have the cards! As always you over play your hand and let the world know that you hold losers. You see if you hat ALPA so much and it ONLY about that then you would have done it already. No instead you wait to see if the west will break and give in, news flash boys and girls, we won't!!! Binding is binding our pilots have spoken and told our reps this No deals, accept and move on so you had best just file those 3000 cards and lets get on with the get'in on

Then one must assume that you've personally gathered "information" that far exceeds that of your vaunted Alpo Notional's. Why else would those poor, and apparently hopelessly ignorant guys, be at all concerned?

"You see if you hat ALPA so much and it ONLY about that then you would have done it already." How that seems logical to you is anyone's guess. While a resigned sense of doom and disgust towards Alpo's long existed: The Nic fiasco did act as a catalyst and wake up call. Note the frenzy that's evident on your side from Nic. Do you naeively imagine that extremely strong feelings weren't generated in the east?

"No instead you wait to see if the west will break and give in, news flash boys and girls, we won't!!!" Good for you....Perhaps you might better understand east feelings then, but in any case...Who cares?

"our pilots have spoken and told our reps this No deals," It's always good to see people with reasonable attitudes, but: Again...Who cares? Your reps only exist within Alpo.

"you had best just file those 3000 cards and lets get on with the get'in on" In case it's escaped you entirely? = Regardless of your very few years at AWA, and your astonishingly small career total flight time, and even despite your personal lust for an east capt seat over those with far more.....you may wish to briefly consider the sad fact that the entire world hardly revolves around you....just a thought. Your personal ideas of how to do anything mean little, and your sage inputs for east strategy/timing mean absolutely nothing.

 

[Best_Guess]

Oh please, most of us look upon you usapa clowns as fakes!! You provide cheap entertainment to watch alpa national squirm but they too will soon realize that you all are just a bunch of fakes. Huff and puff but never have the air to blow the house down.

Personally I know you don't have the cards! As always you over play your hand and let the world know that you hold losers. You see if you hat ALPA so much and it ONLY about that then you would have done it already. No instead you wait to see if the west will break and give in, news flash boys and girls, we won't!!! Binding is binding our pilots have spoken and told our reps this No deals, accept and move on so you had best just file those 3000 cards and lets get on with the get'in on

You seem pretty sure there aren’t enough cards to force a vote, while I believe there are enough cards. I will apologize if I am wrong. Will you?

I personally have a high opinion of our brothers out west, but I don't expect them to agree with our views concerning nic.

Concerning USAPA, I believe that many Westies would prefer to be rid of ALPA, yet believe a vote for USAPA is a vote against nic. -Fair enough- Yet this is the one chance to get rid of ALPA which is widely believed to be corrupt.

USAPA won’t be perfect. It will suffer from some of the same maladies as ALPA, since we all have different ideas of what our union should be. At least we won’t be sending millions of $ to Herndon to pay for inflated salaries. We won’t be saddled with policies that benefit United at our expense.

Many out west have echoed ALPA’s statement that a change of union won’t change the results of the arbitration. If this is so, why not send in a card?

 

[AWA320]

You seem pretty sure there aren’t enough cards to force a vote, while I believe there are enough cards. I will apologize if I am wrong. Will you?

I personally have a high opinion of our brothers out west, but I don't expect them to agree with our views concerning nic.

Concerning USAPA, I believe that many Westies would prefer to be rid of ALPA, yet believe a vote for USAPA is a vote against nic. -Fair enough- Yet this is the one chance to get rid of ALPA which is widely believed to be corrupt.

USAPA won’t be perfect. It will suffer from some of the same maladies as ALPA, since we all have different ideas of what our union should be. At least we won’t be sending millions of $ to Herndon to pay for inflated salaries. We won’t be saddled with policies that benefit United at our expense.

Many out west have echoed ALPA’s statement that a change of union won’t change the results of the arbitration. If this is so, why not send in a card?

You don't need cards from us right so why ask?? ALPA is the lesser of two evils. USAPA is nothing more than a west screw campaign which we can not and will not have. You wish to make us what you once were can't have that either our careers were not in the toilet when this abortion started but if you get your way they would be. This a a totally new company with an old name so you don't work for the company that you used to neither do we. Honor your agreements...

 

[EastUS]

ALPA is the lesser of two evils.

That's entirely a function of both ability to observe, and historical perspective. You've had almost no time having Alpo as a representative body for you.....

"USAPA is nothing more than a west screw campaign" That's hardly the case. Certainly Nic's a big problem on campus these days...or haven't you noticed?, but; the larger goals haven't anything to do with "a west screw campaign". Oddly enough?....and as taxing as this must be for you to even consider.....It's not actually all about you.

There's honest hope for far better represention, an actual union, and even some chance at a better future for pilots here that's not likely to be sold out in the future by Alpo for their own purposes..as has happened so many times, and will happen again in the future if a stand's not taken. Regardless of which side of the Nic argument anyone's on...there's little question that this has been a botched job by Alpo. Regardless of any fantasies about a spectacular contract immediately occuring if Alpo's kept?...There's a lot of reasons to see such willfull fantasy for what it is, and really zero reasons to assume that any great deal's even possible with Alpo at the helm,..now, or ever.

 

[Phoenix]

.There's a lot of reasons to see such willfull fantasy for what it is, and really zero reasons to assume that any great deal's even possible with Alpo at the helm,..now, or ever.

Load and clear. 5X5!

ALPO beats the drum of FUD and then specialize in providing yellow pants insurance.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ok Piedmont prove me wrong, file the cards Save your energy brother you don't have it and never did!! usapa sits hoping that something will turn the tides for you to have enough cards but there are way too many intelligent pilots on the east that won't trust no, DESTROY the remainder of their careers on the usapa pipe dream that could and would never deliver!! usapa is just like your current mec, selling you dreams and lies that they can't produce. File the cards piedmont, AAA73, EastUs any of you I DARE YOU!!! DO it.

You won't, you can't and never will. Prove me wrong boys File what you have and do it monday.

Your goading is really hilarious. I interpret that as insecurity. Said that to another west poster. Keep it up, it only means that you are beginning to grudgingly face reality. There is an election coming, but how we handle it will be on our schedule, not yours.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

It's hugely amusing to watch these guys go apoplectic over this stuff. If we hold out on the cards another few weeks, half the westies will be in the coronary ICU and then USAPA will be a shoo-in.

It is interesting how they are ratcheting up the rhetoric. It would be fun to watch though if we did delay for awhile longer. Good post

 

[EastUS]

It is interesting how they are ratcheting up the rhetoric. It would be fun to watch though if we did delay for awhile longer. Good post

It's uncharitable of me, but?..It's a refreshing change after all the months of AWA "Nyaaah! Nyaah!" postings. Heck..we've even apparently been promoted from "sheep" all the way up to evil liars, thieves/etc who'll do anything to achieve goals. Who'd have thought such a lofty upgrade possible during the "Nyaah "Nyaah" earlier days? If this amazing evolutionary trend maintains...some eventual hope of actual discourse as people may prove out as workable. I've full faith that they're not all, by any means, just blithering idiots out there. They've their share of Village Idiots, and I'm certain that many out west would identify me as an eastern counterpart...but, as groups; I think that we'll eventually be able to work things out....key word = eventually.

AWA320: "File the cards piedmont, AAA73, EastUs any of you I DARE YOU!!! DO it" Hmmm...Alpo's tap dancing, the east is obtaining it's attrition...perhaps waiting for a "Double Dog Dare"..no, the dreaded "Triple Dog Dare", would be better timing I'd personally hate to prevent Alpo from shooting itself in the foot again before the election.

 

[AWA320]

Your goading is really hilarious. I interpret that as insecurity. Said that to another west poster. Keep it up, it only means that you are beginning to grudgingly face reality. There is an election coming, but how we handle it will be on our schedule, not yours.

This is the reason you are not a medical professional, stick to flying a/c and stop trying to interpret what you obviously can not or choose to not understand! Honor your agreements.