AAA Alpa Thread 10/19-10/25

[Phoenix]

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[Pacemaker]

Then they should have liquidated.

 

[Phoenix]

And I said the reason the APA split no longer exists. Jim backed that up. You try to justify USAPA by pointing to the alleged success of the non-ALPA carriers and I submit that the APA is not something you'd want to emulate. Also, recall that the Eagle pilots dumped the APA for ALPA!

I am typing as slowly as possible...

APA exists because, in the view of the AA pilots, ALPA was protecting ALPA, craming thier will on AA, and doing so to the harm of the AA pilots (in their view). Some folks see a similar sitchamoowayshun today.

Did I try to justify USAPA "by pointing to the alleged success of the non-ALPA carriers"? No. You are just like ALPA. You are trying to tell me what I believe, what my argument is, and then trying to argue your point by defeating "my point" that you assigned to me. Gee..

Eagle voted to leave APA for ALPA? Good for them. Its a free country. If they get to vote for a change in union representation then by golly gee whiz I suppose its legal to do so and just maybe someone is smart enough to.. excercise their freedom also.

Hey, I'm all ears. Watch this! "ALPA... why do you deserve to be paid by me to be my representative." .... (By the way, that question isn't for you..)

 

[AAA73Pilot]

"ALPA gave away our retirement" is a nice sound bite but it's not based on fact. It's like saying you give away your wallet to the man holding a gun in your face.

I hope the people who plan on running USAPA are better informed that the promoters on this board.

Once again, the health of the plan was not my statement until after the fact information came to light. Which years data was used as the basis for terminating said plan by the company? '00? '01? '02?

ALPA, meaning the esteemed MEC Chairman and negotiator extraordinaire were instrumental in the loss of the retirement plan. The forced vote and ALL the objections that were overuled by the chair. Remember what time the meeting was held? Who was the parliamentarian? My statement still stands about ALPA giving away the DB retirement plan.

The plan may very well have been terminated anyway. But they should have let the pilots vote. If the company was going after it anyway, make them come and get it. Not just give it away. So once again the few made decisions for all.

I hope you will get better informed about USAPA. At least you would have had a vote on the DB plan termination. Or is your ALPA arrogance so large that you feel the need to save me from myself?

 

[exB717Flyer]

APA exists because, in the view of the AA pilots, ALPA was protecting ALPA, craming thier will on AA, and doing so to the harm of the AA pilots (in their view).

Yes, but it was for a specific issue. ALPA was wrong in 1963 and has since changed.

Some folks see a similar sitchamoowayshun today.

In this case ALPA's will is it's own Bylaws. No comparison to 1963.

You are trying to tell me what I believe, what my argument is, and then trying to argue your point by defeating "my point" that you assigned to me. Gee..

I don't see ALPA doing this anywhere. You can believe what you want to believe but that doesn't allow you to violate the Bylaws, especially when doing so to spitefully disadvantage another pilot group. ALPA is your convenient scapegoat for your unrealistic expectations.

 

[P51Pilot]

ALPA is your convenient scapegoat for your unrealistic expectations.

No, it is the author of ambiguous policies/guidelines that were arbitrary and capricious and designed to serve the interest of its political heavies and not the interest of the profession at large. It is responsible for this debacle and unwilling to fix it because it serves only itself and its masters du jour and not the profession and enjoys support from one side because it is an accomplice to theft and in this instance happens to serves one sides greed.

 

[Phoenix]

Yes, but it was for a specific issue. ALPA was wrong in 1963 and has since changed.In this case ALPA's will is it's own Bylaws. No comparison to 1963.I don't see ALPA doing this anywhere. You can believe what you want to believe but that doesn't allow you to violate the Bylaws, especially when doing so to spitefully disadvantage another pilot group. ALPA is your convenient scapegoat for your unrealistic expectations.

If you listen carefully... you can still hear the echo of the screams from 1963, when ALPA shut their eyes, stuck their fingers in their ears and yelled "They love us and aren't really gonna leave."

(Hint: you are part of that echo. ) ."

 

[nostradamus]

Yes, but it was for a specific issue. ALPA was wrong in 1963 and has since changed.In this case ALPA's will is it's own Bylaws. No comparison to 1963.I don't see ALPA doing this anywhere. You can believe what you want to believe but that doesn't allow you to violate the Bylaws, especially when doing so to spitefully disadvantage another pilot group. ALPA is your convenient scapegoat for your unrealistic expectations.

ALPA was not kind to you when you were very recently with TWA.

" TWA pilots sue their former union, ALPA, alleging that ALPA was more interested in recruiting the AA pilots into ALPA than fairly representing the former TWA pilots."

TIMELINE FOR BETRAYAL-ALPA VS TWA PILOTS

 

[nostradamus]

Yes, but it was for a specific issue. ALPA was wrong in 1963 and has since changed.

You did not always think highly of ALPA, what changed your mind?


exb717 post about ALPA click here

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You can believe what you want to believe but that doesn't allow you to violate the Bylaws,

ByLaws for some, guidelines for others. Take your pick. Political expediency to maintain the cash flow.

 

[EastUS]

East,
There are quite a few pilots on the west side with military experience,

You're hardly one of them...What's your point? = Delusions of personal sacrifice by way of corporate association?...Spare me/us.

AWA320:"Well stated Prechilli. I think that EastUS owes an apology at a bare minimum!

Neither are you anyone who felt any qualms about not serving his country AWA, and, as naturally agrieved and sorrowful as I am at ever offering you any offence; I'm still awaiting the righteous onslaught of your personal lawsuit As for apologies?: It surprises me little that you feel "entitled" to something/anything/everything for doing absoulutely nothing though. You're fully right in not holding your breath for any "apology"...You claim to have zillions already from East crews whilst you were infesting their jump seats..I'm still laughing over that.

Back to the thread point, with the briefest summation possible = Alpa's a proven loser. It's fully, and simply time for a change.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You're hardly one of them...What's your point? = Sacrifice by way of corporate association?...Spare me/us.

The point is that your military service amounts to little more than just collecting a paycheck and receiving some flight training that you used to enjoy a comfortable existence. Some, like you, make out quite well from their military service. Others, like the those Marines and Seals who are coming back mangled from Bush's horrific quagmire, don't have it so good. Those are the true heroes, the true blood and guts of our military that has kept this country free over the last two hundred years. Those Marines, Soldiers and Special Forces go out on patrols daily and they never know if they will become the next statistic. Face it, those are front line troops and they deserve every bit of respect and deference. What's repulsive are those who like to wear their service on their sleeve, as if it's an advertisement to the public of "look at me, aren't I brave and honorable!" No, not really. I served on a state of the art guided missile cruiser and I'll be the first to admit that the chances of me ever getting a scratch was nill to none. But unlike your kind, I would never take the bully pulpit about honor, sacrifice, etc., because in the end I made out incredibly well: Navy Scholarship in exchange for a free education at Northwestern University. All that for little to no risk. Some of my classmates did take the Marine Option, went to Quantico, and went on to serve as Infantry Officers in Desert Storm I. Another classmate became a SEAL. Those are true warriors. The rest of us are not, so perhaps you can just get over yourself.

 

[EastUS]

I'll be the first to admit that the chances of me ever getting a scratch was nill to none.

"But unlike those like you, I would never take the bully pulpit about honor, sacrifice, etc., because in the end I made out incredibly well".

I'm happy for you, and, although you personally lived a "sheltered life"...you did apparently serve. Your other presumptions ="I didn't ever get shot at, so neither have you", nor anyone else..becasue if "I" , the all glorious "I" didn't.../etc) are to be wrongly set, and indulged at your leisure.

It hardly surprises me that you would have that fantasy. You are, after all, a fine proponent of AWA "philosphy" = "It's ALL about ME!!!"

I've yet got opposable thumbs and a pulse, for which I'm truly greatfull...and?..The only actual heroes are the fallen, so it behooves none of us to overly beat our chests. The only time any man can say that he's done all he can..is when his heart stops beating.

Addendum: My eldest serves as a SEAL, but that's entirely HIS proper glory, your point in noting classmates/associations eludes me entirely, unless it be by way of some BS "Me too" clause, which exists only in your own mind. There's some proper therapy availble for those with trauma...but it doesn't include the "Waaah!...I was never there!" trauma. Good luck on that.

Im not lief to further distract this mess from the proper thread topic.

Anything great to offer in Alpo's defense?

PS: If your pathetic insinuations via "transport pilot", with the implicit assumptions that YOU, with your vast amount of combat experience, are somehow the "real deal", actually seem correct in your tiny mind...How about taking me up on my long standing wager?...Hmmm?..."Top Gun"? ...Never met a Squid I couldn't whip You're an archtypical AWA young, and inexperienced "smart mouth"...how about actually backing said mouth up?. Note that I'm not requiring you to actually be shot at, as you seem to believe, based upon your entire "worldly perceptions", doesn't actually ever happen anyways, at least not to you...just put up the money punk.

 

[exB717Flyer]

You did not always think highly of ALPA, what changed your mind?

Though I'm flattered that you've researched my earlier posts my opinion on ALPA hasn't changed one bit. I've always been a pragmatist. To paraphrase Churchill, ALPA is the worst union there is, except for all the rest.

 

[Phoenix]

Anything great to offer in Alpo's defense?

Oh, yeah... give me a second... cough, cough... ummm... their magazine is in color? Does that count?