Aa To Spin Off Overhaul Maintenance

[seed]

Agreed also, though I soon will be through with this industry I see no advantage to doing more than expressing my opinion here.

And the TWU is definately not the IAM. Though the IAM had it's faults, meeting with management, daily or weekly, for a "team" meeting, was not on their agenda.

Our profession is under attack by the cost of fuel and 3rd party vendors. That destroys lives and livlihoods of our fellow workers. Neither union, or any union for that matter, is representing well currently. All unions, in my humble opinion, should have their members poised to "walk" with UAL and others, but they do not.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Our profession is under attack by the cost of fuel and 3rd party vendors. That destroys lives and livlihoods of our fellow workers.

[post="247022"][/post]​

I disagree Seed, our profession has been under attack for years, it was accelerated with 9/11. Anyone who can't see what is going on is a relentless attack against the unions with one excuse after another is blind. Some unions, twu and the iam have joined the union busting by becoming one with management. Others unions have recognized this union busting and at least resisted or fought, that would be the Flight Attendants and AMFA. Quite frankly, I am sick and tired and hearing the compAAny or the twu/iam excuses for their destruction of our profession. FYI...Adjusted for inflation, fuel is still cheaper than in the early 80's, our salariesare lower, but we made money back then.

The way I see it, you can join the ones willing to fight or sit on the sidelines with those who gave up, became one with management, and just watch the whole profession go down the tubes. I prefer to fight.....

 

[FWAAA]

I thought it was the customers' fault. B)

Overcapacity is the problem. Propping up failing companies, allowing them to inflict harm on their non-failing (but soon to fail) competitors.

 

[mweiss]

FWAAA, overcapacity and high unit costs are actually two ways of describing the exact same market conditions.

Something to think about.

 

[Decision 2004]

I thought it was the customers' fault.    B)

Overcapacity is the problem.  Propping up failing companies, allowing them to inflict harm on their non-failing (but soon to fail) competitors.

[post="247051"][/post]​

That may explain the recent industrial union failures. <_<

Care to explain 20 years of TWU Industry Leading Concessions like the 1995 sellout that was a 6 year contract that provided a whopping 6 1/2% payraise over that 6 years during some of AA's most robust and profitable history?

 

[eolesen]

And the TWU is definately not the IAM. Though the IAM had it's faults, meeting with management, daily or weekly, for a "team" meeting, was not on their agenda.

[post="247022"][/post]​

Yet this type of open relationship between labor and management is exactly what keeps the peace at WN....

 

[seed]

The way I see it, you can join the ones willing to fight or sit on the sidelines with those who gave up, became one with management, and just watch the whole profession go down the tubes. I prefer to fight.....

If I saw a chance of staying in this industry I would indeed fight. I currently have less than 100 members under me, so my time here is going to be short lived, next furlough I am gone.

Being one with management? Not sure what you mean there. I will continue to do the job AA pays me to do until I go out the door. I should have taken to the street last furlough instead of losing the difference in severance pay, hindsight.

Good valid points FWAAA, the cost of fuel is a sure winner in our demise. Did they fire the gent in charge of hedging fuel? And overcapacity is another, wasn't it Decision that stated that prior, in the form of a question to management. Why grow when we already suffer from overcapacity?

Have you all heard any more about the 500M savings plan?

 

[AMFAMAN]

Being one with management?

[post="247086"][/post]​

Company-union.....

 

[AAmech]

That may explain the recent industrial union failures. <_<

Care to explain 20 years of TWU Industry Leading Concessions like the 1995 sellout that was a 6 year contract that provided a whopping 6 1/2% payraise over that 6 years during some of AA's most robust and profitable history?

[post="247078"][/post]​

Because our pay was significantly higher than market rates at that time. Most other airlines were topping out around $21-22 an hour while our pay was $25-26 an hour.

 

[Buck]

Because our pay was significantly higher than market rates at that time. Most other airlines were topping out around $21-22 an hour while our pay was $25-26 an hour.

[post="247140"][/post]​

So the TWU decided it was time to bring us back in line, right?

 

[FWAAA]

That may explain the recent industrial union failures. <_<

Care to explain 20 years of TWU Industry Leading Concessions like the 1995 sellout that was a 6 year contract that provided a whopping 6 1/2% payraise over that 6 years during some of AA's most robust and profitable history?

[post="247078"][/post]​

AAmech beat me to it. AA's AMT pay had advanced a little faster than the competitors.

I've never successfully organized thousands of workers to fire their union and replace it with a different union (or course, neither have you, so we have that in common), but if I were gonna try, I'd stop insulting my union brothers by continually asserting that the union has screwed us for 22+ years. Try to focus on the future and stop rubbing their noses in 22+ years of "failure." Emphasize how Delle is gonna help everyone in the future and not how everyone has been a chump for all these years by sticking with the TWU.

So what have those union dues bought you for the past 22+ years? Sounds like a lot of wasted money, if you ask me.

Might as well have worked for DL all this time. No union dues to pay. Has the pay at DL for mechanics lagged the pay at AA?

The way it looks, unions do wonders when the pie is growing. They enable workers to collectively obtain a bigger piece of the pie.

But worthless just isn't a strong enough word to describe airline unions when the pie is shrinking. When the company says "Agree to hundreds of millions of cuts or we'll file Ch 11 and screw you even harder."

What a lousy set of choices. And what good does the union (any union) do in that situation? Try its hardest to mitigate the damage to the members? How? The company has said "Accept this hell or prepare for even worse hell."

Nevertheless, I support everyone's right to unionize or not, and to fire their union if the majority chooses. Good luck. Just doesn't look like it's worth it to me.

Wonder why Delle was wandering the desert for all those years (since 1963) without any significant membership until the bottom fell out of the industry? He comes on the scene like the pied piper, all of a sudden his union is the better option. Maybe it is, but I can understand the skepticism on the part of the long-time TWU members. After all, he organized his union over 40 years ago but only recently attracted any significant membership. Not much track record on which to rely.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Because our pay was significantly higher than market rates at that time. Most other airlines were topping out around $21-22 an hour while our pay was $25-26 an hour.

[post="247140"][/post]​

With a 10 year top out at the time and half the seniority list with less than 10 years is not industry leading by any way or shape. BTW...USair, SWA, UPS, FEd-ex and others still made more. AA still had the lowest average Mechanics pay in the industry in 1995 and still does today.

 

[FWAAA]

Good valid points FWAAA, the cost of fuel is a sure winner in our demise. Did they fire the gent in charge of hedging fuel? And overcapacity is another, wasn't it Decision that stated that prior, in the form of a question to management. Why grow when we already suffer from overcapacity?

[post="247086"][/post]​

Fuel is definitely a problem. A huge problem. Recall that 2003 (second half of the year, post concessions) was shaping up to be profitable year at AA. Fuel was much cheaper. And since then, lots of new capacity has been added, further depressing prices.

The recently touted DFW expansion is really not growth; overall, it results from redeployment of aircraft from other routes plus the addition of the 20 RJs this year (that were puchased many years ago).

And the international expansion makes sense because the LCCs don't yet fly across the oceans. So Japan, Europe, China (hopefully) and the other international expansion is the only option for AA. So far, AA's international yields are holding up. That may change in the future, but it's the only thing that's working right now.

 

[j7915]

With a 10 year top out at the time and half the seniority list with less than 10 years is not industry leading by any way or shape. BTW...USair, SWA, UPS, FEd-ex and others still made more. AA still had the lowest average Mechanics pay in the industry in 1995 and still does today.

[post="247198"][/post]​

So lets have AA bring everyone up to the magic top-out over night, and then find that they are priced out of the market.

SWA, UPS, FedEx don't have full overhaul capability, and the carriers that did are rapidly shedding such capability. If you average in the pay that the "virtual" overhaul mechs at SWA, UPs and FedEx make, what would the average pay be at these carriers? How about at JetBlue, Aeroman in SanSalvador charges around 20-25$ tool time. So playing little number games, JetBlue's average mechs wages must be closer to $10.

In an earlier posting someone mentioned that fuel is as cheap today as 20 years ago, true. Unfortunately, airline tickets have gone down in real terms by at least 50%.

 

[goingboeing]

So lets have AA bring everyone up to the magic top-out over night, and then find that they are priced out of the market.

SWA, UPS, FedEx don't have full overhaul capability, and the carriers that did are rapidly shedding such capability. If you average in the pay that the "virtual" overhaul mechs at SWA, UPs and FedEx make, what would the average pay be at these carriers? How about at JetBlue, Aeroman in SanSalvador charges around 20-25$ tool time. So playing little number games, JetBlue's average mechs wages must be closer to $10.

In an earlier posting someone mentioned that fuel is as cheap today as 20 years ago, true. Unfortunately, airline tickets have gone down in real terms by at least 50%.

[post="247214"][/post]​

The MRO providers do not PRESENTLY have the CAPACITY to handle all of the major carriers Heavy Checks.
The article I read about AWA and Aeroman showed only 1 hangar.They cannot take everybody's maintenance because they do not have the capacity.
I'm sure with 5 years all the MRO's could find the facilties and make the investment necessary to take the heavy check work from the majors.