AA should buy ALASKA Air !

[FA Mikey]

You are both so retaaahhhhddeeeedddddd.... Your cost may be somewhat in line - however the big cost (your pension) is not - which means UA US DAL and NWA B6 and SWA can undercut you in all markets, b/c when the economy improves it helps all carriers not just one... So they will all have that advantage not only that more efficient aircraft, lower paid employees (which i am not proud of) and more efficient work forces - just a fact.. Nor'Easta get a life.. In case you havent realized quite yet, i am much more aware of my surroundings than you, so go crawl back under that snowbank where you belong... I would definitely not be bragging about MIKEYS comments on here.. I dont think CAL will feel the burn as bad as AA but in my opinion AA will be salivating at getting in on the merger mania getting ready to take place - and they shutter at the thought of being kicked to number 3 airline... And it will falter from there.. It should be interesting... You know what they say... what goes around comes around....

You just cant get over the name calling. It really goes to show how weak your point is.

Cost's are cost's and no matter how you legitimately measure them against each carrier, they are all close in line with each other. You say "I think" and "my opinion" but offer no hard facts other than that. BS is BS and until you have something to back up what you say it means nothing.

AA and Continental have cost in line with the bankrupt carriers.

AA has been the only airline not giving press releases or CEO and board member talking points about mergers, acquisitions and the supposed impending consolidation of the industry. That would seem to say either they are playing the cards close to the vest, or sitting back and watching the others fall all over themselves and piling on additional debt.

 

[TWAnr]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='421255' date='Oct 9 2006, 01:02 PM']FYI... AA offered to extend the recall rights for an extra 2 years, if the APFA opens talks early. THB said NO![/quote]
That is pfalse and you know it. galleyguy4u2 got it right.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

(THIS has been for YEARS, ALWAYS one of my MOST favorite reply's)


FOLKS,

History has shown US ALL, whether an AA employee/retiree/OAL employee/Investor/or just plain airline Industry "JUNKIE", ....THAT....for whatever reason, NO CARRIER has a better record of falling into a bucket of ####, then emerging "With a NEW suit on", than AMERICAN AIRLINES !!

And you know why ?

Luck , to a certain extent, BUT mostly thru crafty, careful manuvers !!!!!

With the exception of CRANDALLS reluctance(HIS ONLY MISTAKE) to balk at PAA's Asian routes, AA has "moved" very carefully, and successfully.
(I for one, do not see the TWA acquisition as a "bad move" !!!............"911" was a bad move !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Having said(all) that, this is why I caution AA to think long and hard about there next move(should Merger-Mania start)

To the person above , who mentioned massive hiring/equiptment purchase's etc,...........I say, "these would/are CHUMP CHANGE, compared to INACTION, or the wrong action, if what I think (in the Industry) will happen/when it happens !!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[MCI transplant]

My point, people love talk about the AA/TWA merger and how that turned out. However when you point out that a work group got short end of the stick in the TWA/Ozark merger they go silent.

<_< ---- fixxer, It's not that I'm avoiding a discussion about the Ozark Pilots, it's just that I haven't had the interest to look into exactly what went on with them. Nor have I expounded on what went on with the ex TWA Pilots! And if your inferring I'm more interested in the mechanic, and related aspects of the TWA/Ozark buyout,I have to plead guilty! Because the pilots did not involve me or my former Union!----- Fixxer, Do you know any former Ozark mechanics? Ask them about the first pay check they received from TWA!!! Let's just say it wasn't up to par with the pay scale of nAAtive Twaers! Uncle Carl tried to Staple them! And pay them starting pay!!!! Guess who stooped him? ---- Remember, at that point the buy-out was a done deal! Another question? Whenever you refer to the TWA deal, you refer to it as a buyout! But when you talk about the TWA/Ozark deal, it's all of a sudden a "merger?" Now, why's that????

 

[MCI transplant]

(THIS has been for YEARS, ALWAYS one of my MOST favorite reply's)
FOLKS,

History has shown US ALL, whether an AA employee/retiree/OAL employee/Investor/or just plain airline Industry "JUNKIE", ....THAT....for whatever reason, NO CARRIER has a better record of falling into a bucket of ####, then emerging "With a NEW suit on", than AMERICAN AIRLINES !!

And you know why ?

Luck , to a certain extent, BUT mostly thru crafty, careful manuvers !!!!!

With the exception of CRANDALLS reluctance(HIS ONLY MISTAKE) to balk at PAA's Asian routes, AA has "moved" very carefully, and successfully.
(I for one, do not see the TWA acquisition as a "bad move" !!!............"911" was a bad move !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Having said(all) that, this is why I caution AA to think long and hard about there next move(should Merger-Mania start)

To the person above , who mentioned massive hiring/equiptment purchase's etc,...........I say, "these would/are CHUMP CHANGE, compared to INACTION, or the wrong action, if what I think (in the Industry) will happen/when it happens !!!!!

NH/BB's

<_< ---- HEY Bear!--- When I asked what you thought about aa buying Alaska Air? It's all I said was, I expected a little more out of you than "I don't know!"--- Guess I should've known better!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

<_< ---- HEY Bear!--- When I asked what you thought about aa buying Alaska Air? It's all I said was, I expected a little more out of you than "I don't know!"--- Guess I should've known better!

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

MCI,

Actually, at the time I needed to think MORE about AS, and was'nt sure, but as these merger "clouds" gather more, I think AA needs to strongly consider "adding" to their "portfolio", but that(IMHO) does'nt mean a LARGE move, like a AA/NW !!!

NH/BB's

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

You just cant get over the name calling. It really goes to show how weak your point is.

Cost's are cost's and no matter how you legitimately measure them against each carrier, they are all close in line with each other. You say "I think" and "my opinion" but offer no hard facts other than that. BS is BS and until you have something to back up what you say it means nothing.

AA and Continental have cost in line with the bankrupt carriers.

AA has been the only airline not giving press releases or CEO and board member talking points about mergers, acquisitions and the supposed impending consolidation of the industry. That would seem to say either they are playing the cards close to the vest, or sitting back and watching the others fall all over themselves and piling on additional debt.

You are so spewing junk - your point is??? nothing!!! You didnt listen to what i said - your pension payments will be due - no one elses will - and what does that equal - T-R-O-U-B-L-E - dont get your panties all fluffed thinking about it though it is a couple of years away, but when it comes either your pension will go or AA will be BROKE.... Those are rather large payments they must make - AHHHH the points i could make - but of course you cant understand them - so i wont waste my typing on you... NEXT!!!

 

[aafsc]

<_< ---- fixxer, It's not that I'm avoiding a discussion about the Ozark Pilots, it's just that I haven't had the interest to look into exactly what went on with them. Nor have I expounded on what went on with the ex TWA Pilots! And if your inferring I'm more interested in the mechanic, and related aspects of the TWA/Ozark buyout,I have to plead guilty! Because the pilots did not involve me or my former Union!----- Fixxer, Do you know any former Ozark mechanics? Ask them about the first pay check they received from TWA!!! Let's just say it wasn't up to par with the pay scale of nAAtive Twaers! Uncle Carl tried to Staple them! And pay them starting pay!!!! Guess who stooped him? ---- Remember, at that point the buy-out was a done deal! Another question? Whenever you refer to the TWA deal, you refer to it as a buyout! But when you talk about the TWA/Ozark deal, it's all of a sudden a "merger?" Now, why's that????

Because in business law a "merger" is where one company acquires another company. In the case of twa/Ozark, twa bought Ozark from it's owners, the shareholders. twa purchased all the shares of Ozark airlines. When they did this they acquired all the assets and all the liabilities of Ozark airlines. A company can offer cash for the stock or they can offer a stock for stock transaction. In some cases, the two companies are combined and totally new stock certificates are issued.

In the twa/AA case, AA did not buy twa's stock, that is why your shares were worthless. AA simply acquired the assets it desired for cash and assumed certain liabilities under a bankruptcy liquidation leaving behind twa inc. as a shell company consisting basically of cash for distribution to it's creditors; this is what is called a buyout, or more accurately, an asset purchase.

You are so spewing junk - your point is??? nothing!!! You didnt listen to what i said - your pension payments will be due - no one elses will - and what does that equal - T-R-O-U-B-L-E - dont get your panties all fluffed thinking about it though it is a couple of years away, but when it comes either your pension will go or AA will be BROKE.... Those are rather large payments they must make - AHHHH the points i could make - but of course you cant understand them - so i wont waste my typing on you... NEXT!!!

AA's accumulated pension benefit obligation is about $2.6 billion underfunded. With the pension legislation just passed, AA has about 10 years to pay this underfunding. Assuming this amount stays the same, it would cost AA $260 million a year; AA can easily handle this.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

AA's accumulated pension benefit obligation is about $2.6 billion underfunded. With the pension legislation just passed, AA has about 10 years to pay this underfunding. Assuming this amount stays the same, it would cost AA $260 million a year; AA can easily handle this.
[/quote]


That is the underfunded portion of pension obligations. Over the 10 years they will accumulate more debt b/c they are not paying the obligations.... The 2.6 billion is catch up on top of everything else ...

 

[FA Mikey]

You are so spewing junk - your point is??? nothing!!! You didnt listen to what i said - your pension payments will be due - no one elses will - and what does that equal - T-R-O-U-B-L-E - dont get your panties all fluffed thinking about it though it is a couple of years away, but when it comes either your pension will go or AA will be BROKE.... Those are rather large payments they must make - AHHHH the points i could make - but of course you cant understand them - so i wont waste my typing on you... NEXT!!!

Seems like a lot of talk and yet not a single fact yet to back up your statements.

You seem to feel you are on a superior level and no one here on the AA board could comprehend. Try us back up something with other than I think or an innuendo.

This is the second paragraph you typed out with zero facts, and "I wont waste my time typing." Is the typing that is difficult for you? Or is it as we all suspect you have no facts and is real reason you on with outlandish assertions?

 

[MCI transplant]

Ozark got their seniority but the twaers did not want to give it to them. Ozark was not a failed company in bankruptcy so their contracts, including scope and LLPs, HAD to be honored. twa bought the stock-the company; as where AA just bought certain assets in a liquidation. Even though the Ozark pilots got DOH, they still got screwed according to a former Ozark/twa pilot I talked to. Imagined what would have happened to the Ozark people (especially pilots) if 9/11 and everything else had happened right after twa bought Ozark.

Your just upset that Ozark got full DOH systemwide and you didn't with AA; thats it, isn't it?

<_< ---- aa, the Ozark deal is past history! I rarely even think about it because it was done right, above board, and without any legal maneuvering for the purpose to defraud! The TWA/aa deal on the other hand was a deception from the vary begining! TWA was purposely taken into bankruptcy to: 1) Get reed of Carl Ichan and his company that were selling TWA tickets at a discounted rate! 2) To shed as much of TWA's debt as possible! 3) To Drive TWA stock to zero! At the time, TWA employees were the single largest block of stock holders! 4) To position itself to easily get reed of a maxim number of TWA employees after the buyout by stripping the "Scope" clauses from the Unions contracts! I don't believe for a minute that aa ever intended to obsorbe TWA's employees! But could not get the required government approvals unless it appeared to do so! I've heard Compton and Carty worked this deal for at leat three years prior to taking TWA into Bankruptcy!! So was TWA a failed company! Hell no!!! Can I prove any of this? No! But can you prove otherwise????

 

[twaokc]

MCI,
You are correct and Bill Compton and Carty should be HUNG from the highest tree in OKLAHOMA. Compton got his pockets full on the deal and could care less about anyone else.

<_< ---- aa, the Ozark deal is past history! I rarely even think about it because it was done right, above board, and without any legal maneuvering for the purpose to defraud! The TWA/aa deal on the other hand was a deception from the vary begining! TWA was purposely taken into bankruptcy to: 1) Get reed of Carl Ichan and his company that were selling TWA tickets at a discounted rate! 2) To shed as much of TWA's debt as possible! 3) To Drive TWA stock to zero! At the time, TWA employees were the single largest block of stock holders! 4) To position itself to easily get reed of a maxim number of TWA employees after the buyout by stripping the "Scope" clauses from the Unions contracts! I don't believe for a minute that aa ever intended to obsorbe TWA's employees! But could not get the required government approvals unless it appeared to do so! I've heard Compton and Carty worked this deal for at leat three years prior to taking TWA into Bankruptcy!! So was TWA a failed company! Hell no!!! Can I prove any of this? No! But can you prove otherwise????

 

[aafsc]

<_< ---- aa, the Ozark deal is past history! I rarely even think about it because it was done right, above board, and without any legal maneuvering for the purpose to defraud! The TWA/aa deal on the other hand was a deception from the vary begining! TWA was purposely taken into bankruptcy to: 1) Get reed of Carl Ichan and his company that were selling TWA tickets at a discounted rate! 2) To shed as much of TWA's debt as possible! 3) To Drive TWA stock to zero! At the time, TWA employees were the single largest block of stock holders! 4) To position itself to easily get reed of a maxim number of TWA employees after the buyout by stripping the "Scope" clauses from the Unions contracts! I don't believe for a minute that aa ever intended to obsorbe TWA's employees! But could not get the required government approvals unless it appeared to do so! I've heard Compton and Carty worked this deal for at leat three years prior to taking TWA into Bankruptcy!! So was TWA a failed company! Hell no!!! Can I prove any of this? No! But can you prove otherwise????

Ah.. the grand conspiracy to destroy the twaers. I suppose the fact that AA was going to get 86 aircraft from the proposed UA/US merger was just a lie. The fact that AA was going to get half the Northeast shuttle, LGA gates and slots, and run DCAir was all just an illusion. The fact is AA was going to hire thousands after the twaers once the UA/US deal went thru and AA received the agreed upon 20% of USAir's assets. The UNIONS dictate occupational seniority, not AA. And AA DID do as it promised. All of twa's unionized employees were absorbed into AA. They had jobs for two years and around 4,000 still do. Those that lost their jobs were no different from the nAAtives and those at UA,US,DL,NW,and CO who lost theirs. And yes, twa was a failed company with a large amount of debt coming due with not enough cash to pay it. This was even stated in the kasher arbitration.

 

[MCI transplant]

Ah.. the grand conspiracy to destroy the twaers. I suppose the fact that AA was going to get 86 aircraft from the proposed UA/US merger was just a lie. The fact that AA was going to get half the Northeast shuttle, LGA gates and slots, and run DCAir was all just an illusion. The fact is AA was going to hire thousands after the twaers once the UA/US deal went thru and AA received the agreed upon 20% of USAir's assets. The UNIONS dictate occupational seniority, not AA. And AA DID do as it promised. All of twa's unionized employees were absorbed into AA. They had jobs for two years and around 4,000 still do. Those that lost their jobs were no different from the nAAtives and those at UA,US,DL,NW,and CO who lost theirs. And yes, twa was a failed company with a large amount of debt coming due with not enough cash to pay it. This was even stated in the kasher arbitration.

<_< --- I guess your initialed to your opinion! As am I!!!!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

AA's accumulated pension benefit obligation is about $2.6 billion underfunded. With the pension legislation just passed, AA has about 10 years to pay this underfunding. Assuming this amount stays the same, it would cost AA $260 million a year; AA can easily handle this.
That is the underfunded portion of pension obligations. Over the 10 years they will accumulate more debt b/c they are not paying the obligations.... The 2.6 billion is catch up on top of everything else ...

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

"Beauty",

For almost 30 years now(the last 25 with AA), I listened to YOU and others predicting how AA will find themselves in a "hole" that they CANNOT escape !!

And for ALL of those years, I've watched AA "dodge" Bullet..after..Bullet..after..Bullet !!

Is AA any "BETTER" than other carriers....NO !

Are they LUCKIER than other Carriers....YES

Are they SMARTER than other carriers...ABSOLUTELY YES,

So my suggestion to you is, that you NOT hold your breath, until AA finds themself in a hole, that they can't escape !!

History does'nt lie

it IS, what it IS

NH/BB's