AA flight attendants
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AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
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Maybe you or 700 can answer this. We all are well aware of the fact that (and I will go with fleet since that is my work group) DOH is written into fleets contract for non-rev flying at US. We also know that at AA it's a benefit and not a contractual item. Scenario/question...what if AA's contract stated FCFS and you have US with DOH.johnny kat said:
Once the carriers combine and we have no joint contract yet, who is going to get on that flight to Hawaii first, the AA employee with the FCFS wording, or the US employee with the DOH contractual wording? Of course keeping in mind, we are now one airline under AAL.
- Banned
- #153
You cant answer what ifs.
PMUS has it in their CBA, PMAA doesnt, so it wont matter.
And the airlines are not merged, they are still two separate airlines operating under two different operating certificates.
No changes can be made to the CBA unless a new one is negotiated and ratified, and the IAM wont negotiate a JCBA until new Section 6 agreements can be negotiated and ratified.
But that would be a total mess if you ask me.
PMUS has it in their CBA, PMAA doesnt, so it wont matter.
And the airlines are not merged, they are still two separate airlines operating under two different operating certificates.
No changes can be made to the CBA unless a new one is negotiated and ratified, and the IAM wont negotiate a JCBA until new Section 6 agreements can be negotiated and ratified.
But that would be a total mess if you ask me.
usfliboi
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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In my humble opinion since Im not "all knowing"....Actually what is in the contract doesnt matter. The companies position will be that this is a priviledge and not a right. Now you can fact find the clause saying its Board by senority however the companys response could be...Then we will take away the privledge of pass riding . In our contract it does discuss senority however it does not say we have the right to pass ride. am sure the lawyers reviewed and felt strongly that this would hold up under arbitration. Of course some people feel having a job is a entitlement no matter how poor of a worker they are.700UW said:
- Banned
- #155
I guess you dont realize its all ready been arbitrated and won by the West, and the East was ready to go into arbitration and the company backed down and the East won, any grievance that is third step or beyond is precedent setting.
Do you understand what that means?
Do you understand what that means?
johnny kat
Senior
- Oct 11, 2011
- 343
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Does anyone have any thoughts about PBS and how it will affect their monthly bid awards in relation to salaries? I have heard many times how bad the AA f/as insurance is compared to US. Do any of the AA f/as have concerns about this? The US f/as seem pretty satisfied overall with their group insurance. Do AA f/as have last trip of the month pay protection? What happens at AA in a critical incident and what protections are provided by APFA vs AFA? At AA when a f/a calls in sick do you get paid for the entire trip and is it counted as one sick call or is it just for the one day you called out and do you get assigned a trip the very next day? Does AA crew scheduling have the "availability improvement" (AIL) option where a f/A that has a trip in his or her block can request to be reassigned on another pairing/trip the same day by calling crew sked the day before and requesting another trip that may be open based on seniority and the list goes on and on...Why are we bickering about FCFS vs DOH when there are sooo many more important issues? It's time to get back on topic.
jimntx
Veteran
1 As far as our insurance, I like it just fine. There's nothing contractual as far as I know. We simply have the same options as all other employees. Regular, HMO, what have you. And, within the options there are different levels costing different amounts. For instance, on the regular, if you elect a higher deductible, you get a lower premium. (Of course, a number of employees don't do the math...if you elect $1000 higher annual deductible, you get a $50/month lower premium. (Just an example). That math does not work for me. 
) What I'm not happy about is that in the bankruptcy LBFO (Last Best Final Offer by the company), we got a percentage raise that grossed me an additional $90/month at my pay scale. My monthly insurance premium went from $38/month (employee only) to $112/month and my annual deductible went from $500 to $1500 for otherwise pretty much the same coverage.
2. Yes we have pay protection for the last 5 days of the month. If your trip cancels, misconnects, etc., you can put yourself on the makeup list (you have to specify it is for pay protection) and crew scheduling can give you another trip (if one is available) that falls within the same general timeframes as your lost trip. Or, if a trip is not available, you follow the makeup rules, and you get paid for your lost trip. You have to specify pay protection because others may be on the makeup list just to pick up extra flying. Pay protection folks get priority. Otherwise trip assignments from makeup are handled in seniority order, but if not on pay protection you can refuse the offered trip with no penalty.
3. Critical incidents are handled extremely well by both the company and the union. There is a CI debrief for the whole crew with union reps in attendance. And, paid counseling if necessary.
4. Up until the LBFO in bankruptcy, we were paid for the trip when calling in sick. Of course, you were charged the same number of sick leave hours as the trip. Now, I think we are paid just a set amount, like 3.25 hours/day. Not sure about this. But then, for a flight attendant to call in sick is equivalent to the sin against the Holy Ghost. You will be cast into outer darkness without hope of redemption. :blush:
5. If there are trips in Open Time (uncovered due to sick, trip drop, whatever) that are tradeable with your trip, you can trade it yourself without having to go through Crew Scheduling. You just logon to the computer and do the trade yourself. All tradeable trips (which may or may not be on the same days) will be displayed. If there are no trips you can legally trade for your trip, the computer will say so. There are various rules which the computer applies to determine what is tradeable or not. If there are tradeable trips, you don't need anyone's permission to trade your trip for one of the other trips. However, you can not trade trips within one calendar day of departure date of your original trip. If your 3-day is supposed to depart any time Wednesday, you can not trade with open time after midnight on Monday.
) What I'm not happy about is that in the bankruptcy LBFO (Last Best Final Offer by the company), we got a percentage raise that grossed me an additional $90/month at my pay scale. My monthly insurance premium went from $38/month (employee only) to $112/month and my annual deductible went from $500 to $1500 for otherwise pretty much the same coverage.2. Yes we have pay protection for the last 5 days of the month. If your trip cancels, misconnects, etc., you can put yourself on the makeup list (you have to specify it is for pay protection) and crew scheduling can give you another trip (if one is available) that falls within the same general timeframes as your lost trip. Or, if a trip is not available, you follow the makeup rules, and you get paid for your lost trip. You have to specify pay protection because others may be on the makeup list just to pick up extra flying. Pay protection folks get priority. Otherwise trip assignments from makeup are handled in seniority order, but if not on pay protection you can refuse the offered trip with no penalty.
3. Critical incidents are handled extremely well by both the company and the union. There is a CI debrief for the whole crew with union reps in attendance. And, paid counseling if necessary.
4. Up until the LBFO in bankruptcy, we were paid for the trip when calling in sick. Of course, you were charged the same number of sick leave hours as the trip. Now, I think we are paid just a set amount, like 3.25 hours/day. Not sure about this. But then, for a flight attendant to call in sick is equivalent to the sin against the Holy Ghost. You will be cast into outer darkness without hope of redemption. :blush:
5. If there are trips in Open Time (uncovered due to sick, trip drop, whatever) that are tradeable with your trip, you can trade it yourself without having to go through Crew Scheduling. You just logon to the computer and do the trade yourself. All tradeable trips (which may or may not be on the same days) will be displayed. If there are no trips you can legally trade for your trip, the computer will say so. There are various rules which the computer applies to determine what is tradeable or not. If there are tradeable trips, you don't need anyone's permission to trade your trip for one of the other trips. However, you can not trade trips within one calendar day of departure date of your original trip. If your 3-day is supposed to depart any time Wednesday, you can not trade with open time after midnight on Monday.
Yes it means new contracts will be negotiated and the grievances will be history.700UW said:
You can not have a precedent when you no longer have it in your contractual agreement.
AA barreled through the BK like a mack truck and the judge pretty much rubber stamped everything the company wanted. That precedence is the one that is currently set and unfortunately for all organized labor it is a major set back. Be thankful you do not work for USAir or the New American.
usfliboi
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 2,070
- 270
I do understand what that means....the same as it meant before. Youre not entitled to pass travel. The arbitration indicated the company must provide free pass travel for its groups or it must be by senority? Maybe go back and Google that lol! You believe what you post dont you?700UW said:
- Banned
- #162
It amazes me how you and others dont get it, there are precedent setting grievance all ready on this matter, all the AFA, CWA and IAM have to do is go to Labor Relations and if they dont budge, then its off to court.
Do you know it took eight years dealing with US labor relations, (the same people who are now in charge at the New AA) to reach a JCBA?
Do you know the pilots after nine years still dont have a JCBA?
Yep, sure doesnt take long now does it?
Do you know it took eight years dealing with US labor relations, (the same people who are now in charge at the New AA) to reach a JCBA?
Do you know the pilots after nine years still dont have a JCBA?
Yep, sure doesnt take long now does it?
johnny kat
Senior
- Oct 11, 2011
- 343
- 330
Jim, thanks for the info. I have the 90/100 HMO insurance plan and the deductible is 500 with free lab diagnostic and xray of course my monthly cost is a little more than double what yours is but I have great piece of mind and am thankful to the company for the great benefit.
As for C/I it is about the same and US has the CIRT teams that are regular line F/As who have gone the extra mile and are specially trained to deal with most any type of irregular situation. I am very proud of these coworkers and for the most part they are exceptional.
I have to say some contractual changes are in the works because of our most recent CBA with regards to scheduling ie...AIL trip improvementwill be restricted to two days in advance sort of like you have at AA.
PBS is the great unknown, is it the same at AA? Do you currently have PBS?
Your last 5 day protections are HORRIFYING...the last trip of the month protection protocol at US is night and day in comparison to AA. This would be something that you and every other f/a at AA need to educate yourselves to. I have had my last trip disrupted many many times. Currently if you have your last trip disrupted and as a result a portion of that trip is flown by another or junior crew then you go home sit in front of the fire place enjoy the extra days off and get paid. No need to be in touch with scheduling.
As for sick out being frowned upon it seems AA is very punitive. We have an aging workforce and fly both domestic and intl' (no division). So when it comes to calling out sick it is a balance of being respectful of the employee and to the needs of the organization. I believe the US sick benefits have struck that balance. The days of some crew scheduler in a cubicle at the operations center drawing a judgement about some sick f/a have been over for quite a few years and lawsuits. So this would be something else that needs to be looked at carefully.
All the best.
As for C/I it is about the same and US has the CIRT teams that are regular line F/As who have gone the extra mile and are specially trained to deal with most any type of irregular situation. I am very proud of these coworkers and for the most part they are exceptional.
I have to say some contractual changes are in the works because of our most recent CBA with regards to scheduling ie...AIL trip improvementwill be restricted to two days in advance sort of like you have at AA.
PBS is the great unknown, is it the same at AA? Do you currently have PBS?
Your last 5 day protections are HORRIFYING...the last trip of the month protection protocol at US is night and day in comparison to AA. This would be something that you and every other f/a at AA need to educate yourselves to. I have had my last trip disrupted many many times. Currently if you have your last trip disrupted and as a result a portion of that trip is flown by another or junior crew then you go home sit in front of the fire place enjoy the extra days off and get paid. No need to be in touch with scheduling.
As for sick out being frowned upon it seems AA is very punitive. We have an aging workforce and fly both domestic and intl' (no division). So when it comes to calling out sick it is a balance of being respectful of the employee and to the needs of the organization. I believe the US sick benefits have struck that balance. The days of some crew scheduler in a cubicle at the operations center drawing a judgement about some sick f/a have been over for quite a few years and lawsuits. So this would be something else that needs to be looked at carefully.
All the best.
jimntx
Veteran
We do not yet have PBS. It's the main reason that Domestic and International are still separate. The company has to implement PBS, then they can combine the dom and intl f/a corps (finally).
I find it interesting that you have had your last trip of the month disrupted "many, many times." In my vast career of 12 years, I don't remember losing a last trip of the month. I'm sure it's happened, but I don't remember. In any case, all you really have to do is put yourself on the makeup list for pay protection, and IF they find a comparable trip, you have to fly it.
I was being facetious about sick calls. When I first started flying Crew Scheduling seemed to assume that you were lying about being sick until proven otherwise (or, just calling in sick to ruin their lives). That is not true in the kinder, gentler Crew Scheduling. It's the contractual discipline progression that gets me. We spend our work days shut up in aluminum tubes with every sick person in North America ("No, I don't think a fever of 102 is any reason to change my travel plans"), yet 3 sick calls (of any length) in a 12 month period puts you on First Written Warning. You remain there until the oldest sick call drops off after 12 months.
Or, if you have additional sick calls during the period, you progress to Second Written Warning, then Pre-Termination, then Termination. (Of course, the union is there fighting them every step of the way. Being fired for sick calls is extremely rare--usually only when you have a flight attendant who views sick leave as supplementary vacation time. You know the type..."Well, of course I don't have the seniority to hold off Christmas; so, I'll just call in sick for my Christmas trip." Or, the one I love (though not supported by state or Federal law), "I earned that sick leave. I can use it for any reason I want." The courts have made it clear that calling in sick when one is not sick is an abuse of company benefits. The only required sick leave is the FMLA law which states that a company covered by the law (which, of course, AA is) must give you up to 12 weeks of unpaid sick leave in a year before they can terminate you for absenteeism.
If you see a Dr. twice during the sick leave period (must be 4 days or longer) and get the proper FMLA forms filled out by him, the sick call becomes non-chargeable and doesn't count on the disciplinary progression. The time is deducted from your sick leave bank (if you have any time in there) and from your FMLA 12 weeks, but you don't "progress." In any case, if I'm sick, I'm going to call in. When I was at Texaco, their policy was basically, "if you're sick, please don't come to work and give it to everyone else in your group." That's the way it ought to be.
I find it interesting that you have had your last trip of the month disrupted "many, many times." In my vast career of 12 years, I don't remember losing a last trip of the month. I'm sure it's happened, but I don't remember. In any case, all you really have to do is put yourself on the makeup list for pay protection, and IF they find a comparable trip, you have to fly it.
I was being facetious about sick calls. When I first started flying Crew Scheduling seemed to assume that you were lying about being sick until proven otherwise (or, just calling in sick to ruin their lives
). That is not true in the kinder, gentler Crew Scheduling. It's the contractual discipline progression that gets me. We spend our work days shut up in aluminum tubes with every sick person in North America ("No, I don't think a fever of 102 is any reason to change my travel plans"), yet 3 sick calls (of any length) in a 12 month period puts you on First Written Warning. You remain there until the oldest sick call drops off after 12 months.Or, if you have additional sick calls during the period, you progress to Second Written Warning, then Pre-Termination, then Termination. (Of course, the union is there fighting them every step of the way. Being fired for sick calls is extremely rare--usually only when you have a flight attendant who views sick leave as supplementary vacation time. You know the type..."Well, of course I don't have the seniority to hold off Christmas; so, I'll just call in sick for my Christmas trip." Or, the one I love (though not supported by state or Federal law), "I earned that sick leave. I can use it for any reason I want." The courts have made it clear that calling in sick when one is not sick is an abuse of company benefits. The only required sick leave is the FMLA law which states that a company covered by the law (which, of course, AA is) must give you up to 12 weeks of unpaid sick leave in a year before they can terminate you for absenteeism.
If you see a Dr. twice during the sick leave period (must be 4 days or longer) and get the proper FMLA forms filled out by him, the sick call becomes non-chargeable and doesn't count on the disciplinary progression. The time is deducted from your sick leave bank (if you have any time in there) and from your FMLA 12 weeks, but you don't "progress." In any case, if I'm sick, I'm going to call in. When I was at Texaco, their policy was basically, "if you're sick, please don't come to work and give it to everyone else in your group." That's the way it ought to be.
usfliboi
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 2,070
- 270
Please provide a copy of document where the company indicates that pass riding is an entitlement or a negotiated term of any contract.It discusses the priority of boarding in some cases however to my weak knowledge ( and you may know more) no contract on US property indicates pass riding is a negotiated item and that the company must provide free travel?. I know ours (AFA) only addresses boarding by senority when pass riding however the company has indicated numerous times this is a priveledge and not a right! Seems cut and dry to me! Maybe I am missing something oh mighty one?700UW said:
