AA fascination with HP/US merger

[Workingman]

Most likely it will be a percentage dovetail on the order of FTL/FDEx. But just maybe it might go to arbitration and maybe they hire Kasher. What if he says I think that percentage dovetail is fair as Us is in bankruptcy already. Do you think that the deal with AA/TWA might be looked into once again by the courts and Kasher? Can Kasher and the courts rule two different ways evening knowing that TWA was not in bankruptcy in the Senate testimony 2/1/01? Will the courts look again at the purcase agreement that AA filed? Maybe these are some of the reasons. Can anyone else come up with some other reasons why AA employees are so interested in the US/AWA merger.

 

[KCFlyer]

The more likely scenario is they are insensitive clods who take pleasure in anothers misery and use it to gloat over how they just hammered the TWA workforce into oblivion.

[post="273553"][/post]​

YOu mean like the potential that exists for US employees to hammer the AWA workforce into oblivion?

 

[AAviator]

Question first. Isn't that whole TWA/AA seniority thing still in litigation? I thought I saw that TWU or one of the unions sued and the case was on appeal?

If there is still open litigation the AWA/US agreement COULD have bearing in the TWU/AA case. Not sure how as I am not an attorney.

The more likely scenario is they are insensitive clods who take pleasure in anothers misery and use it to gloat over how they just hammered the TWA workforce into oblivion.

[post="273553"][/post]​

As far as pilots are concerned, its over. TWA pilots have some legal action against ALPA, but the list challenges have been exhausted.

You might find this interesting though:

http://www.twapaf.com/Documents/Bankruptcy...r%202-22-05.pdf

Its from this page:
http://www.twapaf.com/current_news.htm

 

[FA Mikey]

Question first. Isn't that whole TWA/AA seniority thing still in litigation? I thought I saw that TWU or one of the unions sued and the case was on appeal?

If there is still open litigation the AWA/US agreement COULD have bearing in the TWU/AA case. Not sure how as I am not an attorney.

The more likely scenario is they are insensitive clods who take pleasure in anothers misery and use it to gloat over how they just hammered the TWA workforce into oblivion.

[post="273553"][/post]​

The cases are closed. I don't know of any person who would think or gloat over the fact that so many people from TW are on furlough. When the seniority integration was being decided by the unions. AA was in good shape, new planes arriving monthly and growth predicted to continue.

The unions were protecting the seniority of its members. As for the FA's they are an independent union no affiliation to AFL-CIO and was not required to, negotiate for non members, the new TWA people. Legally the unions sole responceability is to its dues paying members. To negotiate seniority away from them to the TWAer's would have brought on lawsuits as well. When is it a unions job to negotiate for non members? Never.

Then Sept 2001 happened. EVERY airline was hit hard and layoffs happened. When seniority was being negotiated we had every reason to believe there would be continued growth and never was it an issue of sticking it to them. It was about protecting days off trip assignments, international flying, vacation bidding, etc. For those who made AA there choice and career.

 

[700UW]

Remember the TWA employees gave up their Labor Protection Provisions of their respective contracts in order for AA to buy them, US Airways unions have not.

 

[L1011Ret]

The cases are not closed. And APFA did not negotiate to protect the AA F/As seniority. They did not need to do what they did to protect the AA F/As, in fact they rigged the seniority to take advanage of the TWA F/As and provide themselves with a windfall.

 

[FA Mikey]

I am still waiting for my windfall. The judge ruled they may refile but the original case is dead.

There was no other way. APFA has but one job in this. Protect its members.

 

[FA Mikey]

After reading all of this the phrase "Insensitive Clods" still rings true. I could never place a finger on why I never chose AA for flights but i am beginning to see one possible reason as I read the posts from AA employees.

[post="273609"][/post]​

Insensitive clod, How so? There was no winfalll for anyone, there was never intended to be a windfall for anyone. The case on seniority was thrown out by the judge. As far as my union what else can there be for them to do? Wondering?

 

[Light Years]

Oh my god, do we HAVE to hear about this again? The defenses from AA F/As fall on deaf ears, the rest of the industry will never forget what you did to our TWA collegues. Or forgive it. You won't find anyone outside of your airline who thinks what you did was ok.

It's disgusting, and why I avoid the AA board. Please don't bring it over here.

 

[KCFlyer]

Oh my god, do we HAVE to hear about this again? The defenses from AA F/As fall on deaf ears, the rest of the industry will never forget what you did to our TWA collegues. Or forgive it. You won't find anyone outside of your airline who thinks what you did was ok.

It's disgusting, and why I avoid the AA board. Please don't bring it over here.

[post="273627"][/post]​

What about your AWA collegues that you displace?

 

[Light Years]

With my seniority I won't be displacing anyone. I'll be lucky to have a place at all at the new airline considering I don't have one at the current US.

Would I, given the opportunity, staple HP F/As to the bottom to ensure I return before them? Absolutely NOT.

Regardless, you can't compare stapling people and people being displaced by seniority through DOH. Huge difference.

I'm already furloughed. There is absolutely nothing you can say that would make me feel that anything but DOH is fair in such a seniority driven world- even if it keeps me away longer. That's how it works.

Years later and AA people are still trying to defend thier despicable actions. Take comfort with each other, there is no sympathy here, or elsewhere within the industry. But you know that.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually, Bob, what you're seeing is how the definition of "fair" is always in the eye of the beholder. What one person sees as eminently fair is grossly unfair to someone else. It's pretty much always been true in this industry and will probably be pretty much always true in the future.

Jim

 

[operaations]

OK Mikey, I'm typing really slow so you can follow along OK???? Assume for the moment you're point of view is the true and correct version of events. Do you have to take such pleasure in it? Drop it!

You seem to revel in the fact that soon there will be some sort of turmoil at AWA/US. Is this to relieve your own guilt over the conduct of AA Flight Attendents? Or do you just like to gloat over your conquest of TWA? Or does the pending situation at US/AWA just give you a woody because you get off on others misery?

[post="273634"][/post]​

First of al Mikey did not have a conquest of any TWA employees. Where did AA do TWA wrong. They purchased a bankrupt airline whil the sole intention of growing. The economy went to crap and we had to downsize. I have not heard any TWA employee complain about the big raises they got when they came over. It is unfortunate what happened. But the fact remains AA bought TWA I see no reason why anyone from TWA should get seniority. I am not even in a Union and I agree with this. I work in Management in operaations. I was about 2 years from a day shift and now that we brought in TWA people with 30 plus years I am now at least 5 - 10 yearts from a day shift. Oh well life goes on I am not complaining. TWA get over it move on it is over. I wish we had everyone in a uniform and were still growing but we dont oh well next please

 

[FA Mikey]

OK Mikey, I'm typing really slow so you can follow along OK???? Assume for the moment you're point of view is the true and correct version of events. Do you have to take such pleasure in it? Drop it!

You seem to revel in the fact that soon there will be some sort of turmoil at AWA/US. Is this to relieve your own guilt over the conduct of AA Flight Attendents? Or do you just like to gloat over your conquest of TWA? Or does the pending situation at US/AWA just give you a woody because you get off on others misery?

[post="273634"][/post]​

I hate that in a forum where you cannot hear a voice, inflection or see a face and know what is sarcasm and what is more serious. You can mis judge and mistake things on many levels, we all have done it.

I dont take any pleasure in what is hapening at U and AWA. I have already lived through it.

I am not living in guilt. Know had it not been for 9/11 there would have been no lay offs and things would be very different at AA, U and AWA.

Honestly you really have to point out where I gloat over a conquest of TWA. I personally would have prefered it never happened.

Tell you the truth I get a woody over a lot of things, but someones eles misery. dont think so.

 

[Light Years]

Good then, AA employees of all seniority ranges are happy, working, and "over it."

As long as you can live with yourself, good for you.

And don't feel bad for any of us at US-HP, we'll be just fine, thank you, and excited about the future.