A letrer from USAPA's Law Firm (EAST THREAD 8/17-24)

[AAA73Pilot]

US Airways Services Corp, Inc merged into US Airways, Inc on July 1, 2004

That was the day that MidAtlantic legally became US Airways, Inc but what was it prior to July 1, 2004? I’ve got news for you; It was nothing more than a concept because Potomac Air ceased operating in October of 2001. MidAtlantic did not exist prior to July 1, 2004 – it was a concept only without an operation certificate. The un-ratified TA that Donn is so proud of was between USAirways and ALPA over an entity that did not exist. To be clear; MidAtlantic was never anything other than US Airways. It was a concept only prior to 7-1-04 and it became US Airways Inc on 7-1-04.

That was the day that ALPA knew, for sure, that US Airways had furloughed pilots working at US Airways, Inc without the benefit of RECALL as per the CBA. They did nothing to correct this injustice and did everything to cover it up until they got hit with the lawsuit in October of 2005


FACT: MidAtlantic was never a division of US Airways, Inc. It was a subsidiary of US Airways Group, Inc known as US Airways Services Corp, Inc - On July 1, 2004 it merged with US Airways, Inc. but changed nothing about the way it operated.

FACT: ALPA allowed furloughed pilots to fly US Airways, Inc airplanes without the benefit of recall

FACT: ALPA allowed US Airways to continue flying the E170 airplane with the words EXPRESS on the tail which created the illusion that MidAtlantic was not US Airways when, in fact, they were one and the same.

FACT: ALPA allowed US Airways to operate the E170 aircraft under the pretense that it was a Potomac Air operation when, in fact, Potomac Air, Inc ceased operation in October of 2001. MidAtlantic Airways merged into US Airways, Inc on July 1, 2004 because they failed to revive the Potomac Air operating certificate. THEREFORE, MidAtlantic HAS ALWAYS BEEN USAIRWAYS, INC. It was never anything else.

FACT: ALPA failed to disclose the proper status of MidAtlantic to Nicholau. Both AWA and AAA are guilty. A flawed seniority list was used at arbitration over seniority. How did Nicholau get hold of it? AWA introduced it and AAA failed to disallow it to become an exhibit. Both sides have made serious errors resulting in significant harm. This seniority list was unofficial and flawed. And yet Nicholau used it in his decision. Regardless of which side you blame, ALPA is the common denominator when it comes to harming the US Airways pilots who flew the E170.

In Kim Snider’s email he admits that he and Bill Pollock were part of the MEC when significant modifications were made to the working conditions, pay and benefits of some US Airways pilots. This was done without membership ratification. What he has omitted is that a negotiating committee member (Jack Greehall) instructed Bill Pollock (in Feb 2004) that membership ratification was required. Bill Pollock responded by saying, “I guess I’ll have to answer for this in court some day.†(I don’t think he knew how right he was) Additionally, while doing this he was telling everyone that MidAtlantic was separate from US Airways, had its own payroll, contract and benefits. I’m sure you all remember his ranting in 2004-05?

Then we proved that MidAtlantic was, in fact, US Airways with the same EIN number, the same payroll, and the same benefits provider as everyone else at US Airways. Next we proved that they attempted to hide these facts by using third party benefits administrators and a payroll service to create the illusion of a separate airline.

What Kim Snider does not express is that US Airways, Inc includes Mainline, MidAtlantic, and the Shuttle. These all operate under the same certificate as of July 1, 2004 and on the same seniority list. There is only one airline under US Airways, Inc. There are no subsidiaries and no divisions under US Airways, Inc. The corporation paperwork and SEC filings make it quite clear. But some on the MEC (or its advisors) continue to try to muddy the water by suggesting the MDA transition agreement created a separate airline. The 2002 TA was a concept only. There was no MidAtlantic and there were no airplanes. A lot happen between 2002 and 2004. The biggest change was that the MidAtlantic concept became a US Airways Inc airline on July 1, 2004. That means that the pilots were US Airways Inc pilots on the same seniority list as every other US Airways pilot. What happen next is an ALPA disaster of biblical proportion of which they are being sued in Federal Court. You all already know about that $1.2 Billion lawsuit

Kim Snider wrote, “I believe the Negotiating Committee at the time would not have been able to place the EMB under the same terms of the contract as other aircraft and demanding to do so would have resulted in no EMB-170 jobs for our pilots.â€

What a crock! US Airways, Inc had made the decision to abandon the Potomac Air operating certificate and fly the E-170 under the US Airways Inc operating certificate. ALPAs responsibility and duty was to assure that the recall of furloughed pilots, in the proper order, was accomplished to fill the vacancies that were created by adding the E-170 to the US Airways operating certificate. This is the default position as described in our CBA. There is nothing to negotiate here, Kim. US Airways added a fleet type to USAirways Inc. By our existing CBA everything other than the pay rate automatically falls under the existing contract. The pay rate is negotiated separately only because it is a new fleet type. And you did such a great job negotiating that pay rate, uh?

ALPA had no problem collecting ALPA dues from these pilots who were listed on the ALPA National web site as ‘Active US Airways Pilots’. In fact, you started collecting their dues from the very first day they showed up in abbreviated INDOC. Did I say abbreviated? Yes, I did. Why was it abbreviated, Mr. Kim Snider? Why did the FAA allow abbreviated INDOC? Why did the FAA shut down the E170 training and send everyone home? Could it have been that MidAtlantic was, in reality, US Airways – one and the same - identical? DID YOU DO YOUR PART TO MAKE SURE NICHOLAU UNDERSTOOD THAT?

You can lie to the pilots but you can’t fool the FAA. What really happen is that ALPA ignored the fact that the E170 was now flying under the US Airways operating certificate. Almost every one of you pretended that MidAtlantic was separate – like it was suppose to be when it was just a concept. But you knew it fell apart and that the E170 was never going to operate under Potomac Air. You knew it was always going to operate under the US Airways operating certificate under US Airways, Inc. You knew it was US Airways. There is no doubt in my mind that you knew this long before the FAA told you and shut down the training and conform to the USAirways, Inc FOM.

But you had a problem. A very real problem that you and the MEC could not handle – isn’t that correct, Kim? You and the MEC allowed the E170 to be flown by pilots from the APL who came to the E170 out of seniority because ALPA failed to take action on the requirement for an official recall which was a negotiated right and a part of the CBA. So, instead of dealing with it appropriately, you tried real hard to sweep it under the carpet. And your statement below shows you are continuing to do this very same thing.

But now Nicholau presented an interesting twist. All of a sudden the entire US Airways pilot group is hammered (except the top 500) and you suddenly need to prove that the award is legally flawed. Of course it is flawed because it is based on flawed documentation presented by AWA and allowed by AAA. So now you are in court defending the fact that the E170 pilots are, and always have been, US Airways pilots and that Nicholau really screwed up. Three weeks ago Donn Buckovic shook my hand in the DCA AFL-CIO building and told me that I was right and that they are in court trying to correct the injustice to MDA and to show that MDA is and always was US Airways. This was not news to us. But it was good to hear him admit it in front of Arnie Gentile and myself.

But here you are again trying to make some issue of US Airways, Inc vs. US Airways Group, Inc. vs. US Airways. You made a point of saying the MDA pilots where active pilots on the US Airways, Inc seniority list as though that is somehow different from all other US Airways pilots. I don’t know who has provided you with this faulty information, Kim, but you really need to do your homework and start understanding why you are being sued for major dollars.

Jim Portale


Comments: So ALPA shoots itself in the foot again. The framework and guidelines of a failed organization that will sacrifice anyone to meet its own ends. When will ALPA begin to represent ALL pilots? My response is never.

 

[TechBoy]

Comments: So ALPA shoots itself in the foot again. The framework and guidelines of a failed organization that will sacrifice anyone to meet its own ends. When will ALPA begin to represent ALL pilots? My response is never.

Your indictment of the US ALPA leadership seems fairly accurate to me.

But my question to you is: would USAPA represent ALL pilots? I seriously doubt it as the guiding principle of USAPA appears to be to screw the West pilots and attempt to find some way around the legally binding Nicolau decision. How is that representing ALL pilots?

 

[hp_fa]

I have a few questions or observations on a few of the things posted.

US Airways Services Corp, Inc merged into US Airways, Inc on July 1, 2004

What, if anything, was done around July, 2004 about the situation?

FACT: ALPA failed to disclose the proper status of MidAtlantic to Nicholau. Both AWA and AAA are guilty. A flawed seniority list was used at arbitration over seniority. How did Nicholau get hold of it? AWA introduced it and AAA failed to disallow it to become an exhibit. Both sides have made serious errors resulting in significant harm. This seniority list was unofficial and flawed. And yet Nicholau used it in his decision. Regardless of which side you blame, ALPA is the common denominator when it comes to harming the US Airways pilots who flew the E170.

Isn't your gripe here directed at your ALPA MEC and NC? ALPA National was not a party to the arbitration so any evidence presented, or not presented, was within the control of the East MEC, NC and/or attorney, not National ALPA.

I guess my question are:

1) If the problems seem to be local MEC issues based upon what local MEC officers did or did not do, how is that attributed to National ALPA?

2) What makes USAPA preferrable to ALPA, other then different local officers then those who were voted into EAST MEC positions by the same electorate? Is this just a fancy way of having a recall?

I'm asking honest questions here so that I can try to understand how USAPA would be an improvement over ALPA, because from where I sit it looks like what you really want is some form of do-over on who is holding office in the East and I don't see where ALPA National has had much, if anything, to do with where East pilots now find themselves.

 

[michael707767]

I'm asking honest questions here so that I can try to understand how USAPA would be an improvement over ALPA, because from where I sit it looks like what you really want is some form of do-over on who is holding office in the East and I don't see where ALPA National has had much, if anything, to do with where East pilots now find themselves.

Just the humble opinion of a pilot from another airline, but I would replace ALPA in a minute. ALPA no longer serves the pilots at major airlines. I keep hoping if the USAir pilots leave, the pilots at Delta, UAL, CAL, etc, will follow them right out the door.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Your indictment of the US ALPA leadership seems fairly accurate to me.

But my question to you is: would USAPA represent ALL pilots? I seriously doubt it as the guiding principle of USAPA appears to be to screw the West pilots and attempt to find some way around the legally binding Nicolau decision. How is that representing ALL pilots?

Simple answer is yes. The framework under USAPA takes into account representation of all pilots top to bottom. If the west chooses to participate, you will have the same voting rights like the rest of us. I know what I have had with ALPA for 20+ years, finally there is a credible alternative. Believe me USAPA was not some brainchild that popped up 1 day after the Nicolau list came out. There has always been an element of discontent with ALPA.

Your assumption about USAPA being formed solely to screw the West pilots is incorrect. There are many of us who simply want new representation. Plain and simple. The problem was the unity or lack of. IMO. I will take whatever support to remove ALPA anytime, anywhere.

Too bad it took this particular issue, at this point in time, to bring it out. I would have prefered something else, but these are the cards as they are dealt. For us, the ones on board who have been patiently waiting for the right issue that unites this group will have been worth it.

My only goal here is to see ALPA removed from the property. When the West guys inherit the airline in the coming years, if you want to vote ALPA back in then so be it. At least you will get to VOTE!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I have a few questions or observations on a few of the things posted.

What, if anything, was done around July, 2004 about the situation?

What could be done? Most of us at the time never even heard of USAirways Services Corp. Inc. It must have been something like double secret probation. Even if we did know, I dont seem to recall anything about a VOTE concerning MidAtlantic.

Isn't your gripe here directed at your ALPA MEC and NC? ALPA National was not a party to the arbitration so any evidence presented, or not presented, was within the control of the East MEC, NC and/or attorney, not National ALPA.

From start to finish, everyone thought that merger policy was just that, policy, as outlined in the Constitution and ByLaws. Then last week in CLT we suddenly find out they are just "guidelines" for pre-arbitration only. There have been too many of us who have been through the process before under the tutelage of ALPA National. One event its policy, another event it's a "guideline". I'm sorry, the NC and MEC dropped the ball by believing in the Constitution and ByLaws. I would have too if relying on ALPA National policy. Hence the need to find a union interested in representing all pilots, all the time

I guess my question are:

1) If the problems seem to be local MEC issues based upon what local MEC officers did or did not do, how is that attributed to National ALPA?

I have LOA's in my CBA signed by every ALPA President dating back to the late '80's. (Speaking of a current CBA, I haven't seen a consolodated one since Jan. 01, '98.) The framework to operate an MEC falls under the Constitution and ByLaws. Administered by the Executive Council. If an MEC screws up then the EC is supposed to step in. See the thread that has trusteeship in it somewhere on the board. So you think these guys were advised by no one? ALPA National Attorneys are always the best at everything they do, since our MEC has no one on permanent retainer. Or is that double secret probation also? There is too much malaise and rot where ALPA National is concerned. But thanks for your dues money anyway. Our secretaries have to be paid more than you.

2) What makes USAPA preferrable to ALPA, other then different local officers then those who were voted into EAST MEC positions by the same electorate? Is this just a fancy way of having a recall?

The framework. Where an MEC Chairman under ALPA can operate at will, USAPA will not bestow that authority on any one individual. It will take participative oversight by the membership up to and including a formal vote on all matters pertaining to the pilots. This was supposed to be in place under ALPA but I guess they had a memory lapse. "It's OK, I know what is best for all of us attitude". There have been many blunders by the locals under different MEC Chairmen. So just replacing the locals must not be the problem entirely. As for National, the highest paid selective do nothings in the land.

I'm asking honest questions here so that I can try to understand how USAPA would be an improvement over ALPA, because from where I sit it looks like what you really want is some form of do-over on who is holding office in the East and I don't see where ALPA National has had much, if anything, to do with where East pilots now find themselves.

So to answer your final questions as best as I can.

As pointed out earlier, the Constitution and ByLaws of national are supposed to be the foundation and framework of what this union stands for. Something that all ALPA pilots can rely on. When it gets interpreted down to a guideline then why is it still in the Constitution? Then what does this union stand for? I have been wondering for a very long time now.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways ALAP BOS Council 32 F/O Rep. Update - August 28, 2007

BOS Pilots,

Yesterday on a Special MEC Conference Call your MEC passed several Resolutions which formally kicks off our campaign to reach Pay Parity with our West counterparts.

One, we unanimously approved the strategic plan of attack formulated by our Strike Preparedness and Communication Committees, and two, we have invited the West MEC and ALPA's National Officers to join us at our picketing event outside US Airways' HQ on Sept. 6.

After all, the fight against pay discrimination in the workplace is a fight that all labor leaders should lead, and on Sept. 6 we're providing the opportunity for all of them to do so.

And we're going to the press with our story, and inviting them to come witness this historic Union event in Tempe.

Why Tempe? Because that's where Parker is.

Standby. This fight is just beginning.

Garland

CC: MEC

USA320Pilot comments: Will the AWA MEC and the AWA pilots support other union members in their quest for pay parity?

According to the August 27 AWA MEC Committee Update "The stock options arbitration that was scheduled for this week has been postponed (not cancelled.) It still remains the goal of the (AWA) MEC to obtain parity on the stock options paid to the East pilots by the most effective means possible."

I believe the US Airways MEC and pilots will support the AWA MEC in its quest for stock option parity. Will the AWA MEC support the US Airways pilot's quest for pay parity?

AWA320 and Junebug, I would be happy to see your answer to my questions.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[hp_fa]

I have LOA's in my CBA signed by every ALPA President dating back to the late '80's. (Speaking of a current CBA, I haven't seen a consolodated one since Jan. 01, '98.) The framework to operate an MEC falls under the Constitution and ByLaws. Administered by the Executive Council. If an MEC screws up then the EC is supposed to step in. See the thread that has trusteeship in it somewhere on the board. So you think these guys were advised by no one? ALPA National Attorneys are always the best at everything they do, since our MEC has no one on permanent retainer. Or is that double secret probation also? There is too much malaise and rot where ALPA National is concerned. But thanks for your dues money anyway. Our secretaries have to be paid more than you.

Is it ALPA National's job to tell a airlines MEC that they screwed up a contract or a contract revision (LOA) that has been voted on and accepted by the membership? I don't think it is, but I could be wrong.

BTW, thank you for having taken the time to write the other response. I am not necessarily agree, but I understand what you are saying. Again, thanks.

 

[USA320Pilot]

It is my understanding the USAPA effort is now clearly the main focus of the ALPA EC because of John Prater’s repeated message at US Airways Crew Base visits. Prater keeps talking about the perceived advantages and disadvantages of having an in house union and he is clearly fearful of ALPA being thrown off of both the East and West property.

Meanwhile, the Rice Committee is now informing US Airways pilots that they are optimistic that contract language can be obtained to protect East Coast based flying, provide attrition based career expectation to the East pilots, and create furlough protection for the East and West pilots. Equally important the Rice Committee reported contract language could be worded in a manner to follow the combined pilot group to any successor airline.

John Prater told pilots at the PHL meeting that if the EC threw out the Nicolau Award that would trigger an immediate lawsuit by the AWA MEC and a judge would have no choice but to immediately release the award to the company. Prater felt the best option was for the EC to hold onto the Nicolau Award, prevent its implementation, and direct the Rice Committee to obtain a “realistic solution.â€￾ Prater also indicated that contrary to what you hear there is some movement in the Rice Committee to find a “realistic solutionâ€￾ and that the best way to get the Nicolau Award thrown out is with the MDA lawsuit.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Is it ALPA National's job to tell a airlines MEC that they screwed up a contract or a contract revision (LOA) that has been voted on and accepted by the membership? I don't think it is, but I could be wrong.

BTW, thank you for having taken the time to write the other response. I am not necessarily agree, but I understand what you are saying. Again, thanks.

VOTE?? I get a vote? So much has been happening lately that affects my pay and working conditions that you would think I should be living at the ballot box. Some of us can't even remember when we cast our ballots last. Maybe it was LOA93. Don't remember any kind of vote giving up the DB plan. Or when Armin Janzen offered the duty rigs in the early '90's. Or even that contract. Or how about the current TA between our companies. The last full contract I got to vote on was the Wolf contract back in '98. So many too list so little time.

The common denominator is all of these CBA's and LOA's have ALPA's stamp of approval. I guess by signing it they weren't to concerned whether I voted or not.

 

[Junebug172]

Will the AWA MEC support the US Airways pilot's quest for pay parity?

AWA320 and Junebug, I would be happy to see your answer to my questions.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Absolutely we will. In fact, I'm 100% behind you. All you have to do is come back to the table, negotiate a TA, and we'll all be paid the same and be working under the same CBA.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Junebug,

How did I know you would not support immediate pay parity; however, I find it interesting that that AWA MEC wants stock option parity. By the way, do you always swear? Hey did you see the recent AWA pilot post titled "That Giant Sucking Sound Part II"? In case you missed it I thought I would post it below.

That Giant Sucking Sound Part II

Our last article described how the company is synergizing the work back East, despite the clear intent found in the Transition Agreement to prevent that from happening. As we have explained before, it is our MEC which still refuses to join the East MEC in filing a dispute over this violation of the cross Mississippi River flying, a violation which has been ongoing since its first occurrence in April 2006.

And the East is maintaining that position despite the fact that year to year, the East is actually benefiting more from the synergies in terms of additional flying than we are.

The MEC’s latest hotline attempted to explain why the credit is down for September. And for once, the MEC was almost believable…far as they went. Sure, September flying is down from the summer months. It happens practically every September. But it is happening proportionately the same both the East and the West.

The problem is: our MEC isn’t telling you the entire truth. Not even a small fraction of it. We’re not going to paste their entire hotline missive. We’ll just comment on a few odds and ends. The MEC attempts to explain away the decrease in terms of seasonal draw-downs, spares and maintenance. They even elicited some help from their SME “Spin Twins†on the Web Board. One attempted to explain away our assertion that flying dropped because:

1/2 (3.2%) of the 6.4% drop is caused by nothing more than the reduction of 1 day from 31 to 30 days in the bid period.

Of course, that forced U-Turn to compare rotten apples with rotten apples in a Web Board reply. Comparing September with the last 30-day month, June, with the 30 days of September, the numbers were even worse…a drop of 8.5% in total hours!

That SME went on to observe:
A good bit of the LAS reduction in 320 flying is due to the fact that the company is back to not running certain night flights every night. They skip certain nights of the week, Tuesdays and others depending by city when they don't think they can make money doing them…Reference flying going east, the 3.2% reduction due to one less day in the month and LAS day of week reductions are not a east-west issue.

To which I replied:

No doubt…But while they are “dropping†a lot of Tuesdays and Thursdays on West Tin, [the company is] still getting the PAX where they want to go on those nights through CLT (Flight 1760) and PHL (Flight 1508). That’s East metal.

One of our LAS crewmembers reminded our SMEs:

I have seen the PIT 320 triple LAS trips. I see no reason we can't fly out of our own base! I wonder if the company realizes we have a BASE in LAS?

We do! But we’re not sitting in the “cheap seats.â€

But before posting the revelation of the 8.5% drop (Ok, we might have sand-bagged old CJ), that Sultan of Spin, CJ Szmal wrote:
Working against [Herb’s] latest cause du jour, there also is the traditional reduction in September flying and the 30-31 day month spread between August and September but, why let the facts get in the way of a U-Turn which includes song lyrics.

Sorry, CJ. Wrong once again. Can’t you ever get anything right? The line hours dropped 8.5%, compared to the last 30-day month of June. And we’re sorry you didn’t like the song.

But forget those rather substantial September draw-downs. They occurred on both sides of the Mississippi. Comparing schedules month-to-month does NOT account for seasonal or heavy check fluctuations. The MEC’s excuse for the reduction in hours does not explain away the disturbing trend which is shifting the work from our house to the East’s house.

Whenever U-Turn wants to get accurate (legally accurate, that is) operational and financial numbers, it goes to the company’s own financial reports. In this case, we looked at the second quarter 10-Qs for the first six months of 2005, 2006 and 2007. The results explain why John Jurik, Louis Carvalho, Bruce Beckington and Arne Gilje continue to be mired in right-seat purgatory.

Comparing the first six months of 2005 with the first six months of 2006, the East lost 16.1% of their aircraft (268 to 224). The West lost 5.6% (143 to 135).
But when comparing the first six months of 2006 with the first six months of 2007, the East gained 0.9% (from 224 to 226). During that time, the West lost an additional 2.2% of its fleet (dropping from 135 to 132). And by the MEC’s own admission, we are going to lose a minimum of an additional three more. 2.2 + 0.9 = a 3.1% differential.

But total hulls don’t really tell the full story. The full story must compare available seat miles with…available seat miles. Again, from the 2006 and 2007 second quarter 10-Q (pages 47 through 56 on the former and 42 through 47 on the latter):
When comparing January through June of 2005 with January through June of 2006, the available seat miles back east dropped by 14.5%. Over that same period of time, available seat miles out West dropped by only 1.8%.

But look at what happened when comparing January-June 2006 with January-June 2007. Comparing those six months, total ASMs out West decreased from 14,779,000 to 14,498,000 (a loss of 1.9%). During that same time period, total ASMs back East increased from 23,085,000 to 23,581,000 (a gain of 2.1%). That is a difference of 4% (1.9 + 2.1). And 4% IS a significant percentage (more on that later).

Those are the company’s numbers. We didn’t make them up, we didn’t take them out of context and we didn’t spin them. They are the facts. So when you think about all the recalls back East (over 380 since June 2005) and all the recalls anticipated between now and the end of the year (the number is now up to 165 and climbing), and compare them with the projected “growth†of 20 new-hires here in PHX, the numbers and the trend do speak for themselves. Don’t believe these hiring/recall numbers are all about East attrition. They're not. The flying is going east, to the cheap seats, where the pay is lower and the productivity is higher. And we are being left behind.

4% IS a significant percentage difference; 4% of 4,500 active pilot positions are 180 slots. That's the gap now, BEFORE the E-190s are fully embedded in the East system.

The hourly gap in flying percentages is increasing every month, whether “seasonally adjusted†or not. The East Nov/Dec bid is already out and they are getting an additional 73 positions. 56 are on the E-190, including 28 CA slots. 11 CA slots are on the A-320, the other 6 on the wide-body Boeings.

How many additional positions are we getting this year? Next year? We are “gaining†a negative five aircraft, times six crews per aircraft. That works out to an additional 120 lost jobs out West, with only 38 retirements (assuming no change to age 60 and assuming the exodus of 6 pilots per month to Virgin America doesn’t continue); a net loss of 82 positions.

So when you think about all the recalls back East (over 380 since June 2005) and all the recalls anticipated between now and the end of the year (the number is now up to 165 and climbing), and compare them with the projected 20 new-hires here in PHX, the numbers and the trend do speak for themselves (BTW, one projection from the East crew planning and management section: an ADDITIONAL 500 new-hires next year).

So the next time you read our MEC Hotlines telling you:

The block hours and fleet count are closely monitored by the MEC. At this time, there is no data to indicate that any flying has shifted East.

Consider the source. It’s Johnnie McIlvenna.

 

[Junebug172]

Yawn.

He's our resident you though some of our pilots actually respect him - unlike you.

Armageddon!!!! Let my daddy vote!!!

 

[SkyRat]

Junebug,

How did I know you would not support immediate pay parity; however, I find it interesting that that AWA MEC wants stock option parity. By the way, do you always swear? Hey did you see the recent AWA pilot post titled "That Giant Sucking Sound Part II"? In case you missed it I thought I would post it below.

That Giant Sucking Sound Part II

Blah, blah, blah...

Your good friend Herbie loves to stir the pot. Are you aware that back in what? 2002-03 he, as the MEC chairmain, HE was defending a contract that was full of concessions. Industry leading into what? NOTHING!

Of course it failed and he got recalled (as my memory serves, but I might be wrong). He just loves to stir the pot. That's YOUR equivalent on the West USA319Pilate!

Just like the East has you, we have our BELOVED Herbie! Love him!

GL

 

[sharktooth]

I'm not talking about the late 1990s. Again, the only difference between US East before two BKs and now is your low wages and the artificial ability provided by BK to screw employees, creditors, and leaseholders and return aircraft.

You forgot the b?illions lost to incompetent management, off-setting any revenue. Instead of upper management forcing square pegs into round holes, like SWA they should enable the end user, the FA, pilot and passenger agent the latitude to "shape" the operation, which would, quite literally, saving billions.

The billion was made in less than a year, in 2000. It was made during unprecedented labor costs.

Your assertions, while "intuitive" to the ignorant, are false in any two-dimensional reality, marginal when considering other factors (2+ dimensional reality).

It's not as if CCY was any braintrust, either. They knew how to use lawyers and cut your pay. Enjoy making all that money. Were East to get raises to match west (not exactly a steller benchmark), you lose 150 mil a year in profit.

and the east would add over $20 million per month, just from pilot efficiencies!!!!!

The offer is on the table. All it would take is engaged management to talk.