A letrer from USAPA's Law Firm (EAST THREAD 8/17-24)

[CactusFlyr]

Junebug,

How did I know you would not support immediate pay parity; however, I find it interesting that that AWA MEC wants stock option parity. By the way, do you always swear? Hey did you see the recent AWA pilot post titled "That Giant Sucking Sound Part II"? In case you missed it I thought I would post it below.

As for the pay parity, We are not so stupid as to know that your quest for parity is nothing more than an attempt to circumvent the TA and keep the lists separate. I am sure that once you received your raise that you will be open to merging the lists per the arbitration- immediately, right??? As for the stock options, this is already covered by a former agreement, we are simply trying to enforce it.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

It is my understanding the USAPA effort is now clearly the main focus of the ALPA EC because of John Prater’s repeated message at US Airways Crew Base visits. Prater keeps talking about the perceived advantages and disadvantages of having an in house union and he is clearly fearful of ALPA being thrown off of both the East and West property.

Meanwhile, the Rice Committee is now informing US Airways pilots that they are optimistic that contract language can be obtained to protect East Coast based flying, provide attrition based career expectation to the East pilots, and create furlough protection for the East and West pilots. Equally important the Rice Committee reported contract language could be worded in a manner to follow the combined pilot group to any successor airline.

John Prater told pilots at the PHL meeting that if the EC threw out the Nicolau Award that would trigger an immediate lawsuit by the AWA MEC and a judge would have no choice but to immediately release the award to the company. Prater felt the best option was for the EC to hold onto the Nicolau Award, prevent its implementation, and direct the Rice Committee to obtain a “realistic solution.â€￾ Prater also indicated that contrary to what you hear there is some movement in the Rice Committee to find a “realistic solutionâ€￾ and that the best way to get the Nicolau Award thrown out is with the MDA lawsuit.

Regards,

USA320pilot

See my previous post on the MDA lawsuit.

What Prater doesn't understand and really no one will, is the East pilots have been screwed for many years by failed contract language and different managements. That contracts, contract language mean nothing. What was the LOA that was being violated before the ink was even dry? Don't like it? File a grievance. How many are still on the books? Last I heard it was over 50. Dating back to '03. Jerry Glass and management are still laughing all the way to the bank.

We all know that contracts can go by the way side in any bankruptcy court. So if we are possibly sold or split up what happens to the successor combined contract? You got it, goodby protections with a stroke of the pen. Wonder if I'll be given a vote on that one? The way ALPA works, I doubt it.

Later Prater

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Yawn.

He's our resident you though some of our pilots actually respect him - unlike you.

Armageddon!!!! Let my daddy vote!!!

If the "Giant Sucking Sound Part 2" is correct, you should be supporting pay parity. That would put a stop to the seat mile growth back east and Doug and Co. will have to start over and come up with a real plan.

Would Love A Vote!! On anything.

 

[Junebug172]

If the "Giant Sucking Sound Part 2" is correct, you should be supporting pay parity. That would put a stop to the seat mile growth back east and Doug and Co. will have to start over and come up with a real plan.

Would Love A Vote!! On anything.

But I do support pay parity. I support it 100%!!!

But you have to support my pay raise and we could kill two birds with one stone by signing a joint contract.

Don't you guys support a pay raise for us??

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Junebug,

Of course I do. Just the means to do it. Send in your card, elect USAPA and we can all live happily ever after under a new joint contract. Sounds pretty good to me. We can all get a raise.

 

[767jetz]

Sorry folks. I meant to post this here on this thread, but ended up posting it in another. So here it is again in the intended place:


I’ve got to commend Tiger 1050, AAA73 pilot, and a few others for attempting to start a peaceful dialogue in another thread. Unfortunately there are obviously some who can’t post anything that doesn’t include at least a slight provocation.

People like USA320pilot do not want peace between the two groups because that could lead to compromise… Something he is afraid of. The only “peace†he is interested in involves capitulation by the West to his desires. (A stance that only polarizes the other group against him.) He would rather hijack a thread with his same old rhetoric and stir the emotional pot because to him confrontation is his only hope of keeping his decertification drive alive. He is afraid that a peaceful dialogue would lead to cooler heads prevailing. What a shame.

IMO, those of you on the East (actually both sides) who have demonstrated the ability to remain objective and to step back from the emotions, would be served better by taking matters into your own hands. You really should be proactive about privately “counseling†people like USA320pilot and others on your respective sides.

Since the list will not be overturned, and the decertification effort has many pitfalls as well as being a “Hail Mary†play with no guarantee (very little chance, IMO) of success, the solution lies with cooler heads discussing options through the JNC with the help of the Rice committee.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

You are delusional if you think US would have survive absent this merger. Nobody else was interested and were just waiting to pickup the carnage after liquidation. Parker saw pennies on the dollar for acquiring assets that would have been out of financial reach for AWA during a bidding war for assets. You have no idea how close to the truth this is, but I do. This is consistent with all the communications from Parker leading up to the ATA deal and then finally US. Go ahead and ask Parker/Kirby that question in the next session.

Don't forget, US was our next option after a failed bid for ATA.

No, you can thank AWA for having a job, and I'll thank (relunctantly) the "outside investors" for giving us the money to acquire US assets.

You can thank the outside investors who saw the benefits of a viable USAirways under new management. Where did the investment money go to first?

Later Prater

 

[AAAPOS]

I get a good laugh from the Usapa guys.

I wont say why because watching this unfold is great entertainment. I sincerely hope you succeed.

When or if you succeed then we all will really see you people cry. I dont get my thrills from watching people suffer but if youre dumb enough to do this I will have to laugh. Maybe you guys should pee on an electric fence because youre mad at it. Let me know how that works out for you. Pretty much like Usapa will.

Cheers

 

[USA320Pilot]

I believe the only way to resolve the seniority list integration/obtain a joint contract is for the two MEC's to meet per the EC's two resolutions and negotiate a "realistic solution" per the Rice Committee. If either party does not try to find a solution then this bitter war will continue, it will only get worse, and USAPA will replace ALPA.

This will never get resolved if there is not a negotiation and compromise.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[luvn737s]

FACT: ALPA allowed furloughed pilots to fly US Airways, Inc airplanes without the benefit of recall

So the MDA pilots were scabs to the extent that they knowingly flew aircraft that should have been crewed in seniority order? Isn't that grounds for expulsion from ALPA?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You are delusional if you think US would have survive absent this merger. Nobody else was interested and were just waiting to pickup the carnage after liquidation. Parker saw pennies on the dollar for acquiring assets that would have been out of financial reach for AWA during a bidding war for assets. You have no idea how close to the truth this is, but I do. This is consistent with all the communications from Parker leading up to the ATA deal and then finally US. Go ahead and ask Parker/Kirby that question in the next session.

Don't forget, US was our next option after a failed bid for ATA.

No, you can thank AWA for having a job, and I'll thank (relunctantly) the "outside investors" for giving us the money to acquire US assets.

Like I believe Doug and everything he says. I do believe this though. He told you guys in a PHX crew news on tape to a pointed question: Who bought who? His reply in so many words was Usairways bought us. Lakefield wasn't interested in running a company period. Doug was. So the investers infused USAirways with cash and the deal was done. Wonder why? Lots of questions to that but one envolves the PBGC. If you bought us then I would be collecting a pension albeit reduced right now.

As for my job? We will never know will we? Because you never know what the last chance giveaway by employees would have done to get us into the current economic up cycle we are in. It would have been ugly for sure and probably would have brought us below what TWA was making prior to the AA deal. But that is just my opinion and conjecture. So your claim of saving anything is moot.

Please, please, provide us with the written proof or fillings of your acquiring us so I can go back to the PBGC and file an appeal. I would really like to start collecting my reduced pension now. If not then please step down from your high horse and get over it. Actually it would have been easier if you did buy us.

And yes, I will ask if I see them.

Later Prater

 

[luvn737s]

And we're going to the press with our story, and inviting them to come witness this historic Union event in Tempe.

Why Tempe? Because that's where Parker is.

I thought the east had an embargo on travel to PHX. Except for furthering their self-interest, of course. I'm sure their picket will be quite a spectator's sport.

 

[luvn737s]

This will never get resolved if there is not a negotiation and compromise.

Please be accurate. The reward for extortion will be concession.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So the MDA pilots were scabs to the extent that they knowingly flew aircraft that should have been crewed in seniority order? Isn't that grounds for expulsion from ALPA?

It would take numerous beers to completely cover the MDA situation, but the short version is that the East MEC insisted it was a separate "division" up until it disappeared (against all evidence) and the furloughees were offered the chance to work for the "division" in seniority order. So no, they were not scabs.

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I believe the only way to resolve the seniority list integration/obtain a joint contract is for the two MEC's to meet per the EC's two resolutions and negotiate a "realistic solution" per the Rice Committee. If either party does not try to find a solution then this bitter war will continue, it will only get worse, and USAPA will replace ALPA.

Regards,

USA320pilot


So very true on the war. Just look what 20 years of North/South/East/West has got us for the last 20 years. Merging companies is complex enough, but to get it done requires an exceptionally strong leader AND management team. Team Tempe with their laissez faire approach is nauseating to say the least. And that's just for the management.

I think what really bothers me about Doug is he could be Don Burrs' clone. Don't turn your back, you never know what you might find sticking out of it later.

ALPA is another story altogether. I didn't need a reason like this to replace ALPA but will gladly let it be the vehicle for new representation.


Later Prater