AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[swamt]

http://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-w...west-flight-not-wearing-masks-oregon-man-says
Put down the Pom-Poms SWAMT. It’s happening everywhere. The CDC says 6 feet.
Unless Southwest has a new mod, keeping a center seat open “ain’t doing Jack Squat”
As Matt Farley would say....

Better than doing nothing at all.

Careful now, I think AA is booking to 85% now. 60% or 85% is not sustainable and you know it.Will SW be willing to book to 60% until there is a vaccine and everyone in the country is vaccinated? A pretty decent airline from Australia came out today and said something like airfares would have to go 9x to sustain limited bookings.

SWA would easily make it with an average of 70-75% LF. E is wrong about Southwest. Our CEO has already said what our minimum LF is and still make a profit and it's below the numbers we are talking about. Especially now with the price of fuel so low and other many, many cost savings now in place. SWA has moved from burning 100's of millions per month down to 50 million, then now down to 20 million and looking at 10 million by end of June. All these numbers are way better and efficient than most all the other airlines so I do understand how that most all the other airlines could not be profitable with only a 70-75% LF across the board. Plus they (upper 3 airlines) are twice the size of SWA as far as fleets and employees and number of flights. What will hurt them even more is the fact they were much bigger into the international market.
Check out these encouraging articles looking forward:

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/4e835b6d-2c20-338d-a2bf-
9d097ce6bb8d/southwest%2C-united%2C-delta.html?src=A00220&yptr=yahoo

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...812.html/RK=2/RS=K0Dp3NQevpu0klvRaRZoPkWmuO8-

 

[swamt]

How about freedom of choice by the passengers.
Hey there’s an idea because last I checked this is still America where people can choose.
There isn’t one passenger who was forced to sit on that plane.
Airlines won’t survive if we can’t start putting more on the planes, government money or not

Temp. wearing a mask or face covering for the time being is more important to me than freedom of choice during a medical crisis that we are currently in.
Suck it up for a little while, stop thinking about yourself only for a bit and consider others around you for a change. You just gotta love the IGM'ers...

 

[eolesen]

Temp. wearing a mask or face covering for the time being is more important to me than freedom of choice during a medical crisis that we are currently in.
Suck it up for a little while, stop thinking about yourself only for a bit and consider others around you for a change. You just gotta love the IGM'ers...

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

 

[ALUS78]

SWA would easily make it with an average of 70-75% LF. E is wrong about Southwest. Our CEO has already said what our minimum LF is and still make a profit and it's below the numbers we are talking about. Especially now with the price of fuel so low and other many, many cost savings now in place. SWA has moved from burning 100's of millions per month down to 50 million, then now down to 20 million and looking at 10 million by end of June. All these numbers are way better and efficient than most all the other airlines so I do understand how that most all the other airlines could not be profitable with only a 70-75% LF across the board. Plus they (upper 3 airlines) are twice the size of SWA as far as fleets and employees and number of flights. What will hurt them even more is the fact they were much bigger into the international market.
Check out these encouraging articles looking forward:

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/4e835b6d-2c20-338d-a2bf-
9d097ce6bb8d/southwest%2C-united%2C-delta.html?src=A00220&yptr=yahoo

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ7JiHOMVe0kEAUyNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyMzlydnA3BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjk4NDhfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1590012168/RO=10/RU=https://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwest-pops-almost-6-may-184530812.html/RK=2/RS=K0Dp3NQevpu0klvRaRZoPkWmuO8-[/QUOTE]
You might be right at least in your group SW has the lowest ratio of AMTS to aircraft among the majors that's got to help.

 

[ALUS78]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

I dont understand how Swam could say they could make a profit with load factor " X ". How many employees ? How many planes? You know that revenue thing

 

[swamt]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

Oh and BTW; Starting May new mask and face covering policy...

SWA just put it in writing on the new policy for mask and face coverings for employees and CUSTOMERS.
Employees are REQUIRED to wear when on board aircraft and always around customers. Employees in hangars, offices really anywhere where social distancing can not be maintained must wear mask or face coverings.
CUSTOMERS are also "REQUIRED" to wear a mask or face covering. Any customer found to be non-compliant will be denied boarding aircraft and not fly. Customers must also wear the mask during the flight just as the employees are required to also.
I respect your "free country" and "freedom" statements, however, non compliance = You not flying...
Kudos to SWA and JB. For the record, JetBlue was the first airline with this policy.
Happy flying

 

[swamt]

SWA would easily make it with an average of 70-75% LF. E is wrong about Southwest. Our CEO has already said what our minimum LF is and still make a profit and it's below the numbers we are talking about. Especially now with the price of fuel so low and other many, many cost savings now in place. SWA has moved from burning 100's of millions per month down to 50 million, then now down to 20 million and looking at 10 million by end of June. All these numbers are way better and efficient than most all the other airlines so I do understand how that most all the other airlines could not be profitable with only a 70-75% LF across the board. Plus they (upper 3 airlines) are twice the size of SWA as far as fleets and employees and number of flights. What will hurt them even more is the fact they were much bigger into the international market.
Check out these encouraging articles looking forward:

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/4e835b6d-2c20-338d-a2bf-
9d097ce6bb8d/southwest%2C-united%2C-delta.html?src=A00220&yptr=yahoo

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ7JiHOMVe0kEAUyNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyMzlydnA3BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjk4NDhfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1590012168/RO=10/RU=https://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwest-pops-almost-6-may-184530812.html/RK=2/RS=K0Dp3NQevpu0klvRaRZoPkWmuO8-

You might be right at least in your group SW has the lowest ratio of AMTS to aircraft among the majors that's got to help.[/QUOTE]


It does help AL. Lean and mean has been SWA's mono from the get go.
New updates from our leaders are saying about 1/3 of employees have taken some sort of leave for now. And with the up coming early out packages coming for all employees that qualify, he stated it will be the most aggressive and rewarding offer they have ever made to this point. So they are expecting even more to take the voluntary leave. He did also state that they need to see more folks take some more ETO, leave and time off options in order to stay away or at least absolutely minimize any kind of involuntary leaves. They (upper leaders) are working their hardest to not have to involuntarily remove any employees, not one. Hopefully the customers returning to flying will pick up enough by Oct where SWA could stretch out the slow come back and not have to do any involuntary leaves at all. We all hope and pray anyway. Our job now is to save the company money in anyway we can. The more they save the better we all are. So we are all pinching anywhere and anyway we can. I know, some will say it's not our job, but things are really differently ran at SWA than other airlines. The employees will do whatever it takes to keep our airline in business. If that means cutting our own hours, then so be it. Think about it. SWA protected their employees thru the 9-11 crisis without one single layoff or furlough and hell, we just hired a number of mechanics that were scared to death. Hopefully we can help out enough to keep the same from happening again.

 

[jimntx]

You might be right at least in your group SW has the lowest ratio of AMTS to aircraft among the majors that's got to help.

The employees will do whatever it takes to keep our airline in business. If that means cutting our own hours, then so be it. Think about it. SWA protected their employees thru the 9-11 crisis without one single layoff or furlough and hell, we just hired a number of mechanics that were scared to death. Hopefully we can help out enough to keep the same from happening again.[/QUOTE]

Gee. This doesn't sound like the "full pay to the bitter end" approach being proposed by some people at other airlines.

 

[swamt]

The employees will do whatever it takes to keep our airline in business. If that means cutting our own hours, then so be it. Think about it. SWA protected their employees thru the 9-11 crisis without one single layoff or furlough and hell, we just hired a number of mechanics that were scared to death. Hopefully we can help out enough to keep the same from happening again.

Gee. This doesn't sound like the "full pay to the bitter end" approach being proposed by some people at other airlines.[/QUOTE]

In a roundabout way it is still full pay. For now it is in the control of the employees. No pay cuts, just a basic self adjust as the employees know what they can get by on in order to save some involuntary furloughs later on for some of our most junior folks.
Don't get me wrong here, our CEO is not sugar coating any of this. He is very honest when he says IF things are not improved enough come Oct. we (SWA) will have to take some kind of action, however, with that said, with the ETO's, leaves, and time off awop's, as well as the up coming Early Out offers, extended ETO's and other leave options, were all hoping and praying enough are able to take them to offset any added involuntary leaves that the company would have to add.
On an added note: United is now looking at a program of reduced pay in lue of layoffs. If you were one to be laid off, wouldn't you rather like to have an option of reduced pay, keep your job, keep your 401K going, keep your benefits, keep your seniority etc..., rather than lose your job and be out of work for who knows how long? I would look at this AS LONG as there was rebound language or a snap back clause in writing on how it would all work. Otherwise you may never see or get that same pay back as some of the AA'ers know from the past when their Pilots got the snap back claused and the TWU did not.
Jim, we can only hope it won't get that bad. but I am a firm believer in preparing for the worse. I really hope all the airline folks have been saving and stashing away since we were given a 5 month heads up before Oct gets here. No one else has received such a gift except us in the airlines from the CARES Act funded monies. Been stashing away since Feb. of this year including our retro/bonus checks we got back when our contract was voted in, still got it as I stashed it away for a rainy day, and that was a little less than a years salary at that time. Good luck to all of us...

 

[swamt]

BTW, here's what United is looking at doing now instead of straight layoffs:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/uniteds-ceo-hints-airline-could-145432315.html

 

[1986Mekanic]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

Interesting quote by one of the founders.... well done EO

 

[V.O. Reason]

BTW, here's what United is looking at doing now instead of straight layoffs:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/uniteds-ceo-hints-airline-could-145432315.html

Sounds like instead of just reducing FT to PT now he wants to negotiate that deal.
Just based on how he wanted to ramrod that through before I would be very careful what they agree to.
Make sure there is a time limit and it isn’t the entire staff.
Get it all in writing.
I would not trust Kirby at all and at AA I would also be careful agreeing to anything similar as well
These executives could care less what we get as long as there is a big bonus in it for them

 

[Kev3188]

This is an opportunity for unions to show they can pivot quickly and/or adapt to new realities. To be clear, I’m not talking about agreeing to concessionary language- I’m talking about getting creative to keep people on the property while also making sure there are some guard rails in place (as VO Reason notes above).

To be honest, I think there is more of an appetite for 30(ish) hour lines than people might think? The key is to make it an appealing option, rather than just being voluntold to take one. There are several easy ways to make that happen.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

BTW, here's what United is looking at doing now instead of straight layoffs:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/uniteds-ceo-hints-airline-could-145432315.html

the nasty gap that took years for united to sew up, seems to be opening up again. the united ramp i know and very angry..mock united's town hall meetings and laugh when united won't tell them what constitutes 'this virus crisis is over'.

seems like united mgnt. panicked first, tried to do 'too much of the right thing' off the bat, and now lost their ramp employees again trying to right the ship as the sea is calming down a bit.

 

[Kev3188]

UA is a great example of how NOT to handle this. For everything they did right, they undercut it with something completely ham-fisted.