77D/2-cabin 772 enters service today

[topDawg]

dawg can perhaps verify, but I don't think DL's original 777s came with the overhead crew rest cabin installed from the factory but were added later in life.

the 200ERs had them on the main deck and Delta changed over to the upstairs set up later. I can't remember when they did it though. 
 

the conversion can be done but it may well be at this point in the age of AA's 777s that it doesn't make sense based on an ROI basis - and the planes would likely be out of service for a longer period of time.

I would be shocked. AA's 200ERs still have 10 or so years left in them, a few rows of seats would pay for it quickly. 
 

as for DL's pilot crew rest facilities, DL has repeatedly offered to allow pilots to use the FA crew rest facilities but ALPA has refused because it is too far from the cockpit. The 777 and 744 pilot crew rest facility is separate from the FAs and much closer to the cockpit. DL would far prefer to have the pilots NOT use cabin seats but DL cannot justify adding weight, esp. in the forward cargo compartments to add a 2nd crew rest facility on aircraft smaller than the 777.

And they shouldn't use the FA rest on those planes. I don't disagree with ALPA at all. 
 

and DL obviously carefully considered the merits of adding undercabin crew rest facilities on the 767 and decided the aircraft could still carry the cargo loads necessary to make the flights profitable. DL does not carry at least certain types of live animals on the 767s because the crew rest facilities affect the air flow on those aircraft.

because cargo wouldn't make the money those seats will. 

 

again, AA can decide to put its crew rest and walk up bars where it wants but every inch and pound of real estate on an aircraft has to be justified. there was a time when it was DL who had all kinds of closets and hardwall cabin dividers while it was AA that had the maximum amount of seats and the minimum amount of extra fixtures. It was actually NW who probably taught DL a lot about eliminating a lot of excess cabin weight; NW had curtains between cabins and generally smaller galleys and more seats than DL had on comparable sized and comparable mission aircraft. US also had the same philosophy as NW so the chances are fairly high that AA's internal aircraft fixtures will change over time.

 Those soft cabin dividers look like crap. Just FWIW. 
 

Regarding the crew rest in the overhead space, we've been told many times that it is cost prohibitive to do it. Putting it in the cargo hold like Delta, obviously is a trade off as it takes cargo space. Apparently, AA DBA USair decided that it was better to leave it in the cabin. For whatever reason, they decided not to take out the old business galley off the 767-300 ER during the retrofit. They could have added 3-4 rows of 3 seats by taking out that wasted/unneeded space. Yet didn't see the need.

odd. I figured the extra seats would make up for it easy. I am amazed that Delta is able to get 30 more seats on the 200ER/LR and still keep the plane in 3-3-3 vs 3-4-3 like AA. 
 

Yep. Legacy AA has 20 757s with slanted lie-flats - the 20 newest 757s in the fleet. Somebody posted a few years back that they can be adjusted to go completely flat, but that would require removing one row, leaving 12 J seats.

I'll believe A321s to Hawai'i when I see it.

thought so. I assume if AA goes to a lie-flat J in the 57 it will be the same seat Delta and United use. (and AA uses on the 321 IIRC)

 

[WorldTraveler]

dawg,
thanks for confirming that DL added the above cabin crew rest facilities after those planes entered service.

Given that DL and every other US airline has mixed gender FAs and pilots, I'm not sure what difference it makes whether a crew rest facility includes FAs or pilots.

again the issue ALPA has with the FA crew rest facilities on most aircraft is that they are towards the rear of the aircraft.

I believe that ALPA just agreed to use the crew rest facility on the 333s because it is further forward than on other aircraft. correct me if I am wrong... but the issue is distance of the facility from the cockpit and not who else uses it.

yes, DL did a great job maximizing seats on the 772ER/LR and the best explanation can be the lack of crew rest facilities (pilot or FA) on the main passenger deck in DL's configuration.

 

[737823]

USAIR on the 332 they still block two seats for the pilots, 1A and 2A, that was last year on US 796/797 PHL-TLV-PHL, unless the contract has changed with MOU.  The 332s have pilot crew rest bunks near the cockpit, however some pilots want to relax rather than sleep therefore they negotiated Envoy seat(s).  Not sure how it is done on the European flights can't imagine any of the PHL/CLT-Europe flying is long enough to require crew rest but I am not very familiar with the USAPA agreement.
 
Josh

 

[topDawg]

dawg,
thanks for confirming that DL added the above cabin crew rest facilities after those planes entered service.

Given that DL and every other US airline has mixed gender FAs and pilots, I'm not sure what difference it makes whether a crew rest facility includes FAs or pilots.

again the issue ALPA has with the FA crew rest facilities on most aircraft is that they are towards the rear of the aircraft.

I believe that ALPA just agreed to use the crew rest facility on the 333s because it is further forward than on other aircraft. correct me if I am wrong... but the issue is distance of the facility from the cockpit and not who else uses it.

yes, DL did a great job maximizing seats on the 772ER/LR and the best explanation can be the lack of crew rest facilities (pilot or FA) on the main passenger deck in DL's configuration.

distance is the issue. on the 767 (I can't remember on the big bus) the crew rest is basically in the back of the plane. Don't really want the pilots having to walk all the way back there..... 

 

[metopower]

Using the f/a rest facility was never an issue. Having A rest facility so far from the cockpit was the issue. The rest facility mod to above first class was when we ordered the LRs .

 

[Kev3188]

distance is the issue. on the 767 (I can't remember on the big bus) the crew rest is basically in the back of the plane. Don't really want the pilots having to walk all the way back there..... 

 
On DL's A330's, the crew rest is in the back (against the fwd bulkhead of the aft cargo compt.).

 

[Overspeed]

There is an article in jetnet about the 777-200 retrofit. There will be two configurations one with 45J/215Y and a version coming later at 37J/252Y. The reason given was that LAA 777-200s were under seating capacity compared to UA and DL. 

 

[IORFA]

But in the end, they ALL will be 37/252.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

But in the end, they ALL will be 37/252.

Yep.  AA is getting HPed.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the CASM on AA's 772 fleet was well above average not only compared to other carrier 777s but also compared to other comparable performance aircraft across the US carrier fleet. Remember that the AA 777s are heavily used on routes that carriers such as DL and UA use 767s which are much lower CASM aircraft even on a comparable seating basis

but considering that AA's 772s have had about the same number of seats that DL and UA 764s have, the reason for the increased seat count on AA's 772s is to push down the CASM to comparable performance aircraft including the 787s and 350s that will increasingly become part of global int'l fleets.


The 772 fleet is too large and too new to park and yet compared to other aircraft, the CASM is too high for the missions on which AA uses it.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

On DL's A330's, the crew rest is in the back (against the fwd bulkhead of the aft cargo compt.).

What a colossal disaster. What a terrible mistake to take up that valuable high revenue cargo space. Oh wait, I thought we were discussing AA.

Let me start over...

What a perfect place to put the crew rest facilities. Such forward thinking is what allows delta to capitalize on main cabin space while providing precisely what the crews need. AA has fallen behind in all measures of crew comfort and space utilization with such mistakes.

 

[WorldTraveler]

except that DL still manages to carry more cargo in the space that remains than the aircraft can carry based on weight with a full passenger load.

if you could really fill up the cargo compartments and still get the plane off the ground, it would be a loss to take up cargo room.

but you can't do that so you aren't displacing cargo revenue.


did you miss that DL in Sept. was the largest cargo carrier of the big 3 despite using an int'l fleet of over 100 aircraft which include 767s and 330s, all of which have cargo compartment crew rest facilities?

 

[Hope777]

except that DL still manages to carry more cargo in the space that remains than the aircraft can carry based on weight with a full passenger load.
 
So are you saying DL is OVER GROSSING its Aircraft?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

except that DL still manages to carry more cargo in the space that remains than the aircraft can carry based on weight with a full passenger load.
 

 
Huh?
DL defies that laws of physics?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Huh?
DL defies that laws of physics?

Yep. They are that good.

Impressed yet?