77D/2-cabin 772 enters service today

[WorldTraveler]

except that DL still manages to carry more cargo in the space that remains than the aircraft can carry based on weight with a full passenger load.
 
So are you saying DL is OVER GROSSING its Aircraft?

perhaps badly said....

DL manages to fill the aircraft to its weight limits even with the crew rest facilities installed. if they weren't there, DL would indeed overgross the aircraft or leave cargo space unfilled.

again, how did DL manage to become the largest of the big 3 cargo carriers in Sept. and larger than AA YTD by using a fleet of 330s and 767s with cargo compartment crew rest facilities compared to AA's far larger fleet of 777s?

oh, and DL managed to have a passenger LF several points higher than AA on their int'l systems.

impressed yet?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

DL manages to fill the aircraft to its weight limits even with the crew rest facilities installed. if they weren't there, DL would indeed overgross the aircraft or leave cargo space unfilled.
... ... ...

impressed yet?

 
Indeed I am impressed ... ... ... that a former DL employee could/would have such an intricate knowledge of DLs current cargo operations and practices.  Unless you're making stuff up.  Again ... ... ... or you messed up your medication with too much cachaca ......
 
Maybe an actual current DL employee can 'weight' in here 

 

[topDawg]

 
On DL's A330's, the crew rest is in the back (against the fwd bulkhead of the aft cargo compt.).

okay thanks. Thought they were. 
 

There is an article in jetnet about the 777-200 retrofit. There will be two configurations one with 45J/215Y and a version coming later at 37J/252Y. The reason given was that LAA 777-200s were under seating capacity compared to UA and DL. 

DL is 37/36/218. (and Y and Y+ are 3-3-3.) AA is 45/45/170. Y+ is 3-3-3 and Y is 3-4-3. 
 
So being 30 seats less than Delta, and having 3-4-3 v 3-3-3 in Y says AA needs to change things up some how. 

 

[Overspeed]

I understand that the first 45 seats of coach on both new 777-200 configs are MCE and 3+3+3. Beyond that the seats go 3+4+3 like DL. Yes the 777-200 is becoming a cattle car.
 
Like I said the reasoning was that LAA 777-200's were low density when compared to DL and UA. That would drive LAA CASM up since we fly fewer ASMs over the same stage length. LAA is now chasing the lowest common denominator when it comes to comfort (DL and UA) by packing more seats on to aircraft to lower CASM and be more like DL and UA.

 

[topDawg]

I understand that the first 45 seats of coach on both new 777-200 configs are MCE and 3+3+3. Beyond that the seats go 3+4+3 like DL. Yes the 777-200 is becoming a cattle car.
 
Like I said the reasoning was that LAA 777-200's were low density when compared to DL and UA. That would drive LAA CASM up since we fly fewer ASMs over the same stage length. LAA is now chasing the lowest common denominator when it comes to comfort (DL and UA) by packing more seats on to aircraft to lower CASM and be more like DL and UA.

 
AA is the only US carrier going to 3-4-3 in Y. Both UA and DL are still 3-3-3 

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

AA is the only US carrier going to 3-4-3 in Y. Both UA and DL are still 3-3-3

Actually UA is 2-5-2

 

[737823]

Actually UA is 2-5-2

 
On a small handful of Hawaii configured birds-the IPTE birds have been converted to 3-3-3 beginning in 2009.
 
Josh

 

[FWAAA]

Actually UA is 2-5-2

 

On a small handful of Hawaii configured birds-the IPTE birds have been converted to 3-3-3 beginning in 2009.

UA's 772s are 3-3-3 except for the Hawai'i with domestic first, which are still 2-5-2:

http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/inflight/aircraft/777/200/v5.aspx

 

[737823]

UA's 772s are 3-3-3 except for the Hawai'i with domestic first, which are still 2-5-2:http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/inflight/aircraft/777/200/v5.aspx

Which is precisely what I stated above.

Josh

 

[Overspeed]

UA has 6 different versions of 777-200s according to Seatguru 3/3/3 and 2/5/2 with multiple variations of F and J. On average seat density has been much higher than AA.

 

[FWAAA]

UA has 6 different versions of 777-200s according to Seatguru 3/3/3 and 2/5/2 with multiple variations of F and J. On average seat density has been much higher than AA.

SeatGuru is a very unreliable source of info. According to United, it has four different 772 configurations, accessible from the link in my post above. All are 3-3-3 except for the domestic-F Hawai'i planes, which are still 2-5-2.

UA's seating density has been higher than AA, but so what? UA's profits in 2012, 2013 and for the first half of 2014 have been nothing to write home about, so I don't see any correlation between UA's seating density and higher profits.

 

[Overspeed]

Our CEO is saying that on the 777 product AA needs to add seats to compete

 

[FWAAA]

Our CEO is saying that on the 777 product AA needs to add seats to compete

I know. Your CEO is a drunken buffoon who has never before run a premium airline. Maybe he's right - maybe AA's troubles all along were the generous meal policies, the lower-density cabins with "too many" premium seats, the generous upgrade policies, etc. No doubt he'll change most if not all of those previous management "mistakes." His fanbois will cheer, as always.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Our CEO is saying that on the 777 product AA needs to add seats to compete

when your competitors offer as many or more seats on aircraft that carry as many or more passengers but cost less to operate, he is right.

the 777 is a long-haul aircraft. it already operates at extra costs for AA on routes where its capabilities are not needed and where other "lesser" aircraft can do the job.

Parker on this one is right. AA needs more seats on the 772s.

 

[topDawg]

Actually UA is 2-5-2

was 2-5-2, changed over to 3-3-3 with the latest cabin mods except for a hand full of hawaii only 777s. (pretty sure they are all 777-222As)  
 

UA has 6 different versions of 777-200s according to Seatguru 3/3/3 and 2/5/2 with multiple variations of F and J. On average seat density has been much higher than AA.

Don't trust seatguru. 
 
Heck your better off trusting wiki. 
 
 
and FWIW I used the comparable product which is the all J 777 at UA. All International 777s have 3-3-3 or are going that way (not sure if IPTE is done or not) 
 

Our CEO is saying that on the 777 product AA needs to add seats to compete

on the 777-200ERs you do. Like I said 30 less seats than Delta and AA is 30 less seats with 3-4-3 says they have to do something. 
 
I still can't figure out how its that big of a difference, I get that AA has a few extra Y+(MCE) than DL does but the extra seats from the 3-4-3 should make up for that. Is the crew rest so big that it takes up that many seats worth of space?