Main Cabin Extra Seats

[BoeingBoy]

But I'd also guess that AA will make these seats available at no charge to it's FFers but charge a fee for non-elites to sit in them - at least till there are no other seats left in coach and the computer will assign one of these seats to a non-elite.

I should have waited and I could have posted this link:

Press Release

Jim

 

[jason77]

There goes another 500 to 1000 flight attendant jobs.

 

[IORFA]

Here's AA's answer

Will the staffing changes on the 737 cause additional flight attendant headcount reductions?
The modifications to all 737 aircraft will not be complete until sometime in 2013. At that time we will re-evaluate staffing needs, as appropriate.

 

[AA767JET]

So with all this new work coming up who will be upgrading all the existing cabins ??? Singapore ??? China ?? Hmmmm another brilliant idea by AA...

Lets announce that we are seeking to close AFW and cut heads in Tulsa BUT we r upgrading our entire domestic fleet !!! SMDH what the heck !!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

There goes another 500 to 1000 flight attendant jobs.

You'd have to know the current and expected staffing of all the fleet types. Undoubtedly, some types won't be over the requirement for X number of FA's before but under that requirement after the reconfiguration like the 738's.

Jim

 

[jimntx]

You'd have to know the current and expected staffing of all the fleet types. Undoubtedly, some types won't be over the requirement for X number of FA's before but under that requirement after the reconfiguration like the 738's.

Jim

All of the new 737s were to be delivered with 160 seats which requires 4 f/as. The older 737s were to be retrofitted to 160. Now, all 737s will require only 3 f/as (well, until they decide this idea isn't working, and put the seats back that they took out).

 

[jimntx]

Here's AA's answer

Will the staffing changes on the 737 cause additional flight attendant headcount reductions?
The modifications to all 737 aircraft will not be complete until sometime in 2013. At that time we will re-evaluate staffing needs, as appropriate.

For us junior (relatively speaking) f/as, this is not good news. Basically they are admitting that this seat reduction is not included in their desired reduction of 2300 in the total f/a corps. E, I'm not one to say I told you so (semicolon however comma) I told you so.

 

[BoeingBoy]

All of the new 737s were to be delivered with 160 seats which requires 4 f/as. The older 737s were to be retrofitted to 160. Now, all 737s will require only 3 f/as (well, until they decide this idea isn't working, and put the seats back that they took out).

For that portion of the fleet, it would make 1 F/A per block or line or whatever you call it at AA. For the A320, which will ultimately be the same number of planes, it won't make a difference - the 19/320's will require 3 either way and the 321's will require 4 either way since none of them will drop below the FAA dividing lines with the reconfiguration. The 757's will be the same - 4 minimum either configuration. More than likely the same for the 767's and 777-200's, although with more seats they stay 5 or 6 FA's. SeatGuru doesn't have a seating diagram for the 777-300's so I don't know about it. A Group I airplane, depending on what plane, could require 1 less FA with the reconfiguration. So overall, less than 1/2 the potential fleet would require 1 less FA.

Jim

 

[jimntx]

All true, but the largest single a/c type in the fleet is MD-80s which require only 3 f/as minimum. The company made much of the fact that the 737s that are replacing the MD-80s would be configured such that they would require 4 f/as. At some point the most of any a/c type in the fleet will be 737s. And, in the post by IORFA above, the company (without using the actual words, "we goofed"), admitted that the 2300 reduction they want in the f/a corps does not include the lesser demand for f/as due to the 737 reconfiguration.

I do not believe that this MC Extra plan just suddenly arose after the bankruptcy term sheet was presented to the union. They knew about it, and either no one thought of the reduction in f/a demand created by this plan or they decided that admitting how many f/as they really wanted to get rid of would create too much of a public relations firestorm.

At Centreport looking good is infinitely more important than doing good.

 

[BoeingBoy]

All true, but the largest single a/c type in the fleet is MD-80s which require only 3 f/as minimum.

That slipped my mind (or my mind slipped, whichever). So in the near term, 4-5 years, the arriving 737's will not result in a reduction in the need for FA's. The 737-8's already on the property will as they're reconfigured, but that's a relatively minor number of planes so a relatively minor number of FA's. I have no idea what the delivery schedule for the 777-300's is but they'll need FA's - probably 6 minimum although I don't know what the configuration will be either or if AA staffs trans-Atlantic/Pacific flights with the minimum required FA - few airlines do.

Once all the MD80's are gone, the preferred seating in the 737-800's will result in 1 less FA per crew, but that's down the road. So I wouldn't worry too much about this seating reduction unless you're right on the verge of being furloughed without it.

Jim

 

[737823]

All true, but the largest single a/c type in the fleet is MD-80s which require only 3 f/as minimum. The company made much of the fact that the 737s that are replacing the MD-80s would be configured such that they would require 4 f/as. At some point the most of any a/c type in the fleet will be 737s. And, in the post by IORFA above, the company (without using the actual words, "we goofed"), admitted that the 2300 reduction they want in the f/a corps does not include the lesser demand for f/as due to the 737 reconfiguration.

I do not believe that this MC Extra plan just suddenly arose after the bankruptcy term sheet was presented to the union. They knew about it, and either no one thought of the reduction in f/a demand created by this plan or they decided that admitting how many f/as they really wanted to get rid of would create too much of a public relations firestorm.

At Centreport looking good is infinitely more important than doing good.

You don't seem to get it. UA offers EconomyPlus, DL has a similar gimmick and now AA added this to remain competitive. The market changes. In mid-late 2008 when AA planned the configuration of the 738s For delivery beginning in 2009 UA was the odd man out offering this product. Things have changed with the bankruptcy and extra legroom seats have proven to be money makers and enhance customer loyalty. So yes, it will lead to a reduction in FAs.

Personally I don't see the value in this since I'm often flying in first or business or if in coach can usually reserve a bulkhead or exit row but AA has determined customers value this offering.

Josh

 

[jimntx]

That slipped my mind (or my mind slipped, whichever). So in the near term, 4-5 years, the arriving 737's will not result in a reduction in the need for FA's. The 737-8's already on the property will as they're reconfigured, but that's a relatively minor number of planes so a relatively minor number of FA's. I have no idea what the delivery schedule for the 777-300's is but they'll need FA's - probably 6 minimum although I don't know what the configuration will be either or if AA staffs trans-Atlantic/Pacific flights with the minimum required FA - few airlines do.

Once all the MD80's are gone, the preferred seating in the 737-800's will result in 1 less FA per crew, but that's down the road. So I wouldn't worry too much about this seating reduction unless you're right on the verge of being furloughed without it.

Jim

Yes, I am right on the verge of being furloughed. However, the large number of former TW f/as recalled last year was partially predicated on the need to increase staffing on 73s from 3 to 4. They are the people I am most concerned for right now. I can always retire if I so choose. Now that I have my 10 years on the payroll, I am eligible to spend the rest of my life sitting in airports hoping for a revenue no-show on a flight to somewhere I want to go as a retiree non-rev.

 

[damajagua]

I think it's about time AA offered this product. How can AA remained competitive if it's main
competitors offer this product and we don't. Even some of the low cost carriers like JB offer
more rooms in the first few rows; never mind almost all international carriers offer this product.
This is a great enhancement to our coach product which has been lacking a lot in the last few
years. With this product as well as complementary wine and beer on international flights our
economy product will be competitive with the industry. Am a flight attendant and have been
suggesting this to the company for a long time. Am glad that they are finally doing it. The only
thing missing for a superb economy product would be an enhance entertainment system such
as VOD at least on the 767-300 fleet.

 

[kirkpatrick]

All of the new 737s were to be delivered with 160 seats which requires 4 f/as. The older 737s were to be retrofitted to 160.

Removing a row from coach in the 737 would bring it from 160 total seats to 154, so they must be planning to remove two rows, bringing it back to the old 16/132. N*JETSA shows 37 737's still in the 16/132 configuration from before, but it's the "wrong" config - seats are more or less evenly spaced and the cart stowage is still there aft of the lavs, so there's a bit of work to be done to change them from 16/132 to 16/132 with extra legroom in the front rows. It seems to me that with two rows going, there will be a lot of seats with the extra legroom, maybe half the plane. 133 are in the "B9" config with 16/144 and those should be a quick conversion.

A problem arises with staffing when you have two configurations. As planes were converted from 3FA airplanes to 4FA airplanes, they ran into the issue of having a 3FA airplane drop off a crew in a layover city and then the next day a 4FA airplane comes in and the plane is short staffed. The company went to 4 FAs on all 737's late in 2010 to take care of this problem. I assume it will arise again as they take seats out, so my guess is the company will leave the extra FA on until a substantial majority of the fleet is reconfigured.

This could buy us a little time.

MK (furlough fodder)

 

[jimntx]

I think it's about time AA offered this product. How can AA remained competitive if it's main
competitors offer this product and we don't.

I might agree with you if this latest change didn't have a "desperate grabbing at straws" feel to it. "Don't just sit there. Change something; so that it will appear we've been doing something in this suite of offices."

Passenger amenities are all well and good, but I've yet to see any study that says on multi-airline routes (think JFK-LHR), passengers pick Airline A over Airline B because the IFE is better on Airline A, or that Airline A offers me the chance to pay extra to have a smidge more room. I believe the bottom line is still if Airline A's ticket from JFK to LHR is $5 cheaper, then obviously, the better airline is A.