2015 Fleet Service thread

[Tim Nelson]

Hate to say it Tim but all the years out there I didn't think you had a conscience  that's why I'm a little skeptical of you actually caring for the jetblue employees. I really think you are taking the DL contracting out of left field You are entitled to your opinion but I don't see it

 
I think if you really look at the case, I think you will find that my prediction and conclusion is not only a reasonable one that is well supported with case law and management trends,  but my forecast of it is also likely.
 
However, although I may have presented the case, from my perspective, the case stands,  regardless of my conscience.
 
Knowing the history of this campaign spanning at least 8 years, I can tell you that nobody strategized this JetBlue campaign from the beginning.  When I was Director of Organizing for DL141, Tom Reagon, the JetBlue Campaign Creator,  begged me to help him and approve DL141 going over to Jetblue.  I told Tommy 8 years ago that the campaign would not only be unsuccessful but that it risked everyone's jobs.  Remember, there was no cross utilization, only rampers. That's a big thing to consider when organizing a small company.
 
As an aside, Tommy's JetBlue campaign was approved by Roach, but my hunch was that Tommy's interest was personal, i.e., he lived in the Orlando area and wanted to stay home since Roach had him assigned to EWR on other campaigns. 
 
regards,
 

 

[Worldport]

At LGA thats true.Over here we have a dozen or so Elephants,plus the open buckets.

Is that all O/T

 

[Tim Nelson]

What be doesn't get is DL Rampers are NOTsjgning cards, where as JetBlue Rampers are signing cards.

 
What you fail to consider is that you guys continually measure a campaign on card counts. I never subscribe to that BS or  the measurement of the potential of a card signer, i.e., is the guy/gal a 1 or 2....5 [with 5 as being the most likely to sign]. 
 
The biggest rejection given to organizers is "I'm not interested, I only plan on being here for another year.".   The reality is that most people who work the ramp have a greater vision and tell peeps, "I don't plan on being here'.  You know how many times I heard "I'm getting my pilot's license and only have a year or so to be on the ramp?"
 
Any Delta campaign, if re-initiated, shouldn't even bother getting cards signed.  Building trust and communicating is the building block.  Once you establish that then peeps will ask for the cards.  Nobody trust management and that's the confidence that all organizers have.  Delta rampers aren't stupid, it's just that they have no reason to trust the IAM.  That has to change but it never will change with a bunch of 9-5 paid staffers out there.
 
At any rate,  I don't think the IAM has a choice, I think it is or should be its duty to stay out there, much like it is their duty at Boeing, South Carolina.  Keep at it, don't walk away.  Walking away is killing us.
 
regards,
 

 

[bob@las-AA]

No I sense an actual dislike for one another

BUSTED!

 

[Worldport]

 
I think if you really look at the case, I think you will find that my prediction and conclusion is not only a reasonable one that is well supported with case law and management trends,  but my forecast of it is also likely.
 
However, although I may have presented the case, from my perspective, the case stands,  regardless of my conscience.
 
Knowing the history of this campaign spanning at least 8 years, I can tell you that nobody strategized this JetBlue campaign from the beginning.  When I was Director of Organizing for DL141, Tom Reagon, the JetBlue Campaign Creator,  begged me to help him and approve DL141 going over to Jetblue.  I told Tommy 8 years ago that the campaign would not only be unsuccessful but that it risked everyone's jobs.  Remember, there was no cross utilization, only rampers. That's a big thing to consider when organizing a small company.
 
As an aside, Tommy's JetBlue campaign was approved by Roach, but my hunch was that Tommy's interest was personal, i.e., he lived in the Orlando area and wanted to stay home since Roach had him assigned to EWR on other campaigns. 
 
regards,
 

 Our negotiations aside with what has happened in the industry in the last year or so you can throw managements trends out the window and start a new book. Tim you are US like me, did you ever think you would be offered $30 per hour? Heck I never thought I would see $24

 

[Kev3188]

Don't try to change what you said now to curry favor with your obvious supporter Kev. You didn't specify any move towards the ramp and you went on that NO WAY page for the Delta FA's and stated you would do anything to help them keep the IAM out.
Again although Kev doesn't seem to answer questions these days anymore, I'd like to know what his opinions are about what you have been doing?
Kev will you be courteous enough to provide a response?

 

No problem. Right after you're courteous enough to get back to treating me like an adult. In the interim, you can find lots of my thoughts on this all over this site.

 

I don't think the stews are in danger of being contracted out.  Apples and oranges.
 
The Delta ramp is going to get eaten alive after we sign our contract. 

They waited to ensure they had labor peace through the merger. Then they threw cash at everyone to ensure complacency. Then they threw a little more to buy time while things shook (shake) out at other carriers. Now we'll see how it goes.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Is that all O/T

Drives a lot of call in,hold over,day off.

 

[Kev3188]

What be doesn't get is DL Rampers are NOTsjgning cards, where as JetBlue Rampers are signing cards.

Actually they are, but the better question to ask is why they aren't coming in in larger numbers...

 

[Kev3188]

Drives a lot of call in,hold over,day off.

Does here as well.

 

[Kev3188]

 Any Delta campaign, if re-initiated, shouldn't even bother getting cards signed.  Building trust and communicating is the building block.  Once you establish that then peeps will ask for the cards.  Nobody trust management and that's the confidence that all organizers have.  Delta rampers aren't stupid, it's just that they have no reason to trust the IAM.  That has to change but it never will change with a bunch of 9-5 paid staffers out there.

The wall of silence over the last year or so hasn't helped...

 

[WeAAsles]

No problem. Right after you're courteous enough to get back to treating me like an adult. In the interim, you can find lots of my thoughts on this all over this site.
 

They waited to ensure they had labor peace through the merger. Then they threw cash at everyone to ensure complacency. Then they threw a little more to buy time while things shook (shake) out at other carriers. Now we'll see how it goes.

I've always treated you as an adult and had great respect for you. But I'm not a man who's personally fond of agendas and currently I feel like you have one.

And the question I asked you was extremely reasonable but it's your "choice" not to respond. And the readers will have to be left to guess why?

I've also never suspected you to be an individual who will shy away from a tough question or conversation? I guess I was wrong?

 

[Tim Nelson]

 Our negotiations aside with what has happened in the industry in the last year or so you can throw managements trends out the window and start a new book. Tim you are US like me, did you ever think you would be offered $30 per hour? Heck I never thought I would see $24

 
I haven't been offered $30 yet but the competition dictates it, so I can't refute comments that "The money is there".  And I think it is reasonable to take our time in negotiations because of it.  But I'm a researcher and I tend to see things from the headwaters or source.  Where is the source?  Delta.  The question becomes, "Why?".   Why did Delta increase the rampers to $29?  Was it because of a backpeddling IAM campaign?  Certainly, no.   I think the source and spring of this money flow is a direct result of Parker's "Delta + 7% comments" in the town halls when dealing with the pilots and then blanketing all of us with it.  I'm convinced that Delta management just took advantage since Parker telegraphed his wage negotiations strategy.  So, Delta cashes the rampers out of half of their profit sharing only to load the compensation up in wages.  Does it cost Delta more? Nope.  Does it put American and United on the clock? Yep.  Not saying I'm right, but I don't trust Delta management and I think it is a competitive game and that once they get Parker, and Munoz to take care of all of their union groups [American fleet/MX, and United MX/stews] that Delta will contract out much of its ramp because they did it before. 
 
So, no, I don't think management changed its stripes, nor do I think it is overpaying.  I think it remains just as greedy as it has always been, but Delta forced Munoz and Parker to follow suit.  Once the contracts are signed, nobody will be writing a new book, just referencing an earlier chapter about how management screwed over employees again.  And those who I think will get screwed are Delta rampers. And that's the story I think.
 
regards,
 

 

[Tim Nelson]

The wall of silence over the last year or so hasn't helped...

 
Yeah but Parker had the save. lol
 
Delta dressed its labor situation up like a Christmas tree. After everyone sings kumbuya and Christmas is over, the tree has to be taken down.  If I were a Delta ramper, I'd hope that the American and United labor contracts stall for a long time because I don't think Delta will make a move until it gets its competitors locked into expensive long term labor contracts. 
 
regards, 
 

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually they are, but the better question to ask is why they aren't coming in in larger numbers...

You already answered your own question just a little up from this one. The Regulars are being paid well and the RR's believe they will be where you are one day.

They don't want to rock that boat and can't see the bigger picture.

"Employment Contract"

 

[Tim Nelson]

As an aside, the IAM doesn't need to continue using the IAMPF as an organizing tool.  It kills organizing.  We didn't organize victories that I established by screaming IAMPF. I would avoid such talk because most people today have had defined pensions already flop on them once. It's just a really really stupid organizing technique and it blows up organizing campaigns. I'm not a proponent of the IAMPF but for the Love of God, leave it for negotiations only if you have to do something with it. It is a deal breaker on the organizing trail.
 
regards,