2015 Fleet Service thread

[ograc]

American has committed $3.5 billion to pay increases since the 2013 merger, Norton said. It is also spending $250 million to implement a single flight operation system by fall and $100 million to construct a single payroll platform.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2016/03/05/american-airlines-pilots-say-middle-managers-wont-implement-ceo-vision-of-labor-peacet-i/#77376c7c432d

ograc the company will not be offering and we certainly won't be accepting a cost neutral contract. I think through your two bankruptcies and technically our two as well we've already given them most of the things they wanted. 

We really need to change our mindsets. If you look at all the contracts that the company has ratified since the merger for the most part there have been substantial gains against minimal losses in the overall value.     

 
 
WeAAsles,with all due respect, I do not share your optimistic viewpoint concerning the company's posture in negotiations. Maybe you're right, after two bankruptcy agreements reached with a gun to our head, we should expect the company to offer improved and fair contract proposals. I anticipate quite the opposite. Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

Postal service nurses. 15 year TOS
http://www.apwu.org/sites/apwu/files/resource-files/rsc-g-8-22-2015.pdf

USPS. 11 years to the TOP grade.
http://www.apwu.org/sites/apwu/files/resource-files/APWU%20Contract%202010-2015.pdf

Pretty long schedule on these teacher contracts.
http://www.uft.org/files/contract_pdfs/attendance-teachers-contract-2007-2009.pdf
http://www.uft.org/our-rights/contracts-print

Page 125 down. 9 years.
http://www.cwa9400.com/Documents/AT&T%202012%20Contract.pdf

Wow. At least in 2002 it didn't look like it paid very well to be a NYC Firefighter.

"Rank-and-file firefighters have worked for more than two years without a raise or union contract. A new recruit earns about $31,000 a year. After 20 years, salaries can reach about $55,000."
http://www.firehouse.com/news/10579625/fdny-union-city-reach-contract-accord

Hey here's a 5 year one. UPS driver. Cool.
https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/6161478090_master_final.pdf

That's enough searching for now.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
WeAAsles,with all due respect, I do not share your optimistic viewpoint concerning the company's posture in negotiations. Maybe you're right, after two bankruptcy agreements reached with a gun to our head, we should expect the company to offer improved and fair contract proposals. I anticipate quite the opposite. Hope I'm wrong.
 

Why would all the other groups at AA be offered a fair contract and not us? Are you saying that we are less important than the Agents? 

But of course the company isn't going to step in the door on day one and give us everything we're asking for. Just as much as we aren't going to accept everything they might offer or ask for in return.

 

[WeAAsles]

He left AA and took free taxpayer money that paid for his training.

Well I just gave him a few off the top of my head search examples of contracts out there that have more than the 5 year progression he was talking about. He said he'd stop talking about it if I could prove to him that there were any of them out there outside the airlines.

Mission accomplished. Do you think he will be a man of his word?  

 

[ograc]

Supposed to be...... yes.
 
The only problem with your theory is all that "Brother and Sisters together" crap goes right out the window when there is money on the table.
 
How many times have current employees saddled lesser seniority people and new hires with a loss of pay and benefits for retirement packages and raises?
 
You know it's true.
 
 
I stopped subscribing to the "shared sacrifice" theory a long time ago.
 
My responsibility is to my family first, my "brothers and sisters" are secondary.
 
Anybody that says any different is a liar. All you have to do is look at TWU's voting history to see that.
 
 
Would you rather give concessions over and over to keep headcount up or make a decent living?

 
I believe you ask a question that goes to the root of our collective thoughts. Where does this threshold lie among the membership? Brother's keeper or look out for one's self? The floor is open to discussion.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Had we decided in 03 not to give financial concessions to save jobs and our pensions, you would have been gone that year.

Maybe. I accept that as a possible outcome but not a truth.
 

Had you finished your schooling yet?

I had not even started but, I did have electrical training to fall back on. During one the lay off I took a job doing heating and air. I used my electrical background to talk the owner into hiring me.
 
I always have an exit plan.
 

If you're trying to give the members on here your own personal life lesson, that's fantastic. Bravo and thank you. But in reality we all choose our own roads. You chose yours and apparently at least you claim it was the right one. The rest of us chose the road we are traveling on and personally at least speaking for myself I'm very satisfied for the most part with my choice. 

I agree with that. I think a lot of people don't realize how working a high paying unskilled (but very demanding) job can turn into a trap.
 
I am not saying people shouldn't work in Fleet, it was a good job, I just want them to be aware of the risks associated with it making it into a career. If that career does not last, you may find yourself in a very bad position.
 
Thank you for being civil.
 
 

He left AA and took free taxpayer money that paid for his training.

As usual your posting half truths and outright lies. Keep harping on an event from years ago though. Meanwhile I will keep harping on the things you say every day. Good day. 

 

[WeAAsles]

I agree with that. I think a lot of people don't realize how working a high paying unskilled (but very demanding) job can turn into a trap.
 
I am not saying people shouldn't work in Fleet, it was a good job, I just want them to be aware of the risks associated with it making it into a career. If that career does not last, you may find yourself in a very bad position.
 
Thank you for being civil.
 

You're welcome. Look as a fellow person I really am glad that you put in the tough work to find something better for yourself. And actually for me it's more the seniority that makes me a prisoner. I wouldn't mind getting the training to maybe go into AA Facilities Maintenance or even Flight dispatcher.  But honestly after 21 years I like having Sat Sun off and don't want to change that.

I don't want to sacrifice my QOL for more money.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Well I just gave him a few off the top of my head search examples of contracts out there that have more than the 5 year progression he was talking about. He said he'd stop talking about it if I could prove to him that there were any of them out there outside the airlines.

Mission accomplished. Do you think he will be a man of his word?  

That is NOT what I said. I said find any with a 9 YEAR top out.
 
"I have never heard of any other job category outside of an airline that takes 9 years to top out. Ever. I looked at a lot of UNION apprenticeship programs before making this post and I did not find ONE with over a 5 year top out. I challenge you to find any other payscale for any job outside of the airline industry with a 9 year top out. You do that and I will never bring it up again."
 
I will verify your findings before I accept them naturally.
 
But yes, if I find your research is valid I will keep my word. 

 

[WeAAsles]

 
I believe you ask a question that goes to the root of our collective thoughts. Where does this threshold lie among the membership? Brother's keeper or look out for one's self? The floor is open to discussion.

Balance. Of course you and your families needs have to come first for you. But also what's the point of being a part of an interconnected society if we totally turn our backs on our neighbors?

We're all at least somewhat greedy and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's when we let our greed overwhelm us that we have problems. It doesn't make us very decent inside.

Check this program out. It might fascinate you how much we really are connected and need each other.

http://www.pbs.org/show/humanity-space/

 

[WeAAsles]

That is NOT what I said. I said find any with a 9 YEAR top out.
 
"I have never heard of any other job category outside of an airline that takes 9 years to top out. Ever. I looked at a lot of UNION apprenticeship programs before making this post and I did not find ONE with over a 5 year top out. I challenge you to find any other payscale for any job outside of the airline industry with a 9 year top out. You do that and I will never bring it up again."
 
I will verify your findings before I accept them naturally.
 
But yes, if I find your research is valid I will keep my word. 

Post 2222

Postal service nurses. 15 year TOS
http://www.apwu.org/...g-8-22-2015.pdf

USPS. 11 years to the TOP grade.
http://www.apwu.org/...t 2010-2015.pdf

Pretty long schedule on these teacher contracts.
http://www.uft.org/f...t-2007-2009.pdf
http://www.uft.org/o...contracts-print

Page 125 down. 9 years.
http://www.cwa9400.c...12 Contract.pdf

Wow. At least in 2002 it didn't look like it paid very well to be a NYC Firefighter.

"Rank-and-file firefighters have worked for more than two years without a raise or union contract. A new recruit earns about $31,000 a year. After 20 years, salaries can reach about $55,000."
http://www.firehouse...contract-accord

Hey here's a 5 year one. UPS driver. Cool.
https://teamster.org...aster_final.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

In 2011, the UAW won raises for entry level or second-tier workers. Starting pay went from $14.50 to $15.78 per hour with a top wage of $19.28 an hour. But autoworkers hired before 2007, who earn about $28 per hour on average, haven't received a base wage increase for 10 years and are urging UAW leaders to demand raises this year.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/03/24/uaw-automakers-contract-strike-negotiation-convention/70371100/
 

Workers hired after 2007 will reach parity with older workers, who now earn 29 dollars per hour after eight years of service with company. 
Many of the second-tier workers hired since 2010 will reach parity within the next four years, said company officials, who said the contract also secured more than $9 billion in new investment in Ford plants in the US.

http://www.industryweek.com/workforce/ford-workers-narrowly-ratify-uaw-contract

 
A minimum wage increase affects those new workers who will now hire in at $15.78 an hour as opposed to the previous rate of $14.00 per hour – an increase of 12.5% for new entry level worker. In addition to the pay hike, new employees with receive improved healthcare benefits and a new tuition assistance program. Also, where entry tier workers at GM were previously only able to reach $16.00 an hour, the new contract allows those workers to earn as much as $19.28/hour. This portion of the deal will affect roughly 2,500 current workers and thanks to GM making this adjustment of the entry level pay and benefits, the automaker has maintained their controversial two tier payment plan.

- See more at: http://www.torquenews.com/106/look-most-important-terms-new-uawgm-contract#sthash.PAhSZCK3.dpuf  

 

[WeAAsles]

That is NOT what I said. I said find any with a 9 YEAR top out.
 
"I have never heard of any other job category outside of an airline that takes 9 years to top out. Ever. I looked at a lot of UNION apprenticeship programs before making this post and I did not find ONE with over a 5 year top out. I challenge you to find any other payscale for any job outside of the airline industry with a 9 year top out. You do that and I will never bring it up again."
 
I will verify your findings before I accept them naturally.
 
But yes, if I find your research is valid I will keep my word. 

One more on this subject. I bet if you look through here you will find plenty of agreements that are over 9 years to reach TOS.

Happy fishing with all of this research. I'm going to go get some Chicken Parm and Spaghetti now.

About the Collective Bargaining Agreements File
As a result of Secretary's Order 4–2007, issued in May 2007, the authority for maintaining the Department of Labor's collective bargaining agreements (CBA) file was transferred to the Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). The CBA file has been maintained since 1947, pursuant to Section 211(a) of the Taft-Hartley Act, which directs the Department of Labor to collect these agreements “for the guidance and information of interested representatives of employers, employees, and the general public.” Documents are submitted by signatories on a voluntary basis. Therefore, some materials may not be current or available for all major bargaining units. In addition, some documents are not available to the general public at the request of one or both of the parties to the agreement. Further, OLMS does not collect CBAs from the railroad and airline industries. The National Mediation Board is responsible for copies of collective bargaining agreements covering railroads and airlines

 
How to Access the Collective Bargaining Agreements File
Collective bargaining agreements are available from the links on this page. They are also available in the OLMS Public Disclosure Room in Washington, DC at:

U.S. Department of Labor
Office of Labor-Management Standards
200 Constitution Avenue, NW, Room N-1519
Washington, DC 20210
Telephone: (202) 693-0125
Fax: (202) 693-1344

The OLMS Public Disclosure Room hours of operation are from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding Federal holidays.
Copies of any CBA may also be purchased. Requests may be submitted in person, by mail, by telephone, or by fax. There is a duplication cost of 15 cents per page.

http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/index.htm

 

[Worldport]

One more on this subject. I bet if you look through here you will find plenty of agreements that are over 9 years to reach TOS.

Happy fishing with all of this research. I'm going to go get some Chicken Parm and Spaghetti now.

About the Collective Bargaining Agreements File
As a result of Secretary's Order 4–2007, issued in May 2007, the authority for maintaining the Department of Labor's collective bargaining agreements (CBA) file was transferred to the Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). The CBA file has been maintained since 1947, pursuant to Section 211(a) of the Taft-Hartley Act, which directs the Department of Labor to collect these agreements “for the guidance and information of interested representatives of employers, employees, and the general public.” Documents are submitted by signatories on a voluntary basis. Therefore, some materials may not be current or available for all major bargaining units. In addition, some documents are not available to the general public at the request of one or both of the parties to the agreement. Further, OLMS does not collect CBAs from the railroad and airline industries. The National Mediation Board is responsible for copies of collective bargaining agreements covering railroads and airlines

 
How to Access the Collective Bargaining Agreements File
Collective bargaining agreements are available from the links on this page. They are also available in the OLMS Public Disclosure Room in Washington, DC at:

U.S. Department of Labor
Office of Labor-Management Standards
200 Constitution Avenue, NW, Room N-1519
Washington, DC 20210
Telephone: (202) 693-0125
Fax: (202) 693-1344

The OLMS Public Disclosure Room hours of operation are from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding Federal holidays.
Copies of any CBA may also be purchased. Requests may be submitted in person, by mail, by telephone, or by fax. There is a duplication cost of 15 cents per page.

http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/index.htm


There is probably some software guy doing better but this has to be or will be one of the better part time jobs out there, money,benefits and flexibility

 

[WeAAsles]

There is probably some software guy doing better but this has to be or will be one of the better part time jobs out there, money,benefits and flexibility

Don't personally know or have heard of any better?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The UNION leaders push the concept of shared sacrifice and "concessions for jobs". This also happens to be the philosophy that lines their pockets. The UNION leadership never participates in these "shared sacrifices" however. Giving UNIONS a large headcount in exchange for working on the cheap does NOT benefit the rank and file workers in the membership.
 
Working for less pay and benefits so you can keep the people employed at the bottom of the seniority list to make UNION bosses richer is not a good choice for a career rank and file UNION worker.
 
I truly believe that. For lack of a better analogy (and I know this one is terrible) I don't believe in adding poison to the well so everyone can have a drink. Some people just need to go find another well.