2014 Pilot Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

I'm sure you'll be running off to federal court just as soon as the Arbitrators don't agree with you. I bet the complaint is already in the can. I say you do as much of your USAPA antics and bullshit with the APA that you've done for years. We'll see how effective it is now.

Kind of like AOL.  We've learned from the best!!!

 

[nycbusdriver]

I've said before that I view the NIC and straight DOH as equally toxic. 

 
You are absolutely correct.  I don't think anyone expected Nicolau to issue a straight DOH list; not even the East Merger Committee.  What no one (not even the west pilots) expected was his award of such a vindictive abomination.
 

Based on testimony at the recent arbitration, it sounds more like the United/Continental SLI is the way this is leaning. That is a LONG way from DOH.

 
And again, I don't think anyone expects to see a straight DOH list out of this merger, either.  It will be slotted in a way that is, at once, totally fair and totally unfair, depending on point of view.  Personally, I am only sure that the Number 1 pilot at LAA will be happy with the results.

 

[Phoenix]

Another cockpit widow appeared closed and locked, but wasn't. Be careful out there.

T-13

 

[Phoenix]

Hey what's up with sick time accrual. Anybody else show no change on totals from 31 Dec? I show 60 hours accrual but it appears nowhere in any total, short or long..

Another computer programming delay?

 

[bigjets]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/01/american-airlines-pilots-union-board-meets-to-mull-over-last-company-contract-proposal-binding-arbitration-offer.html/
 
hopefully this will pass with the pilots, we know the arbitrator won't GIVE anything, and you don't want to count DP being as generious with pilots as he was with the FA's 

 

[Phoenix]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/01/american-airlines-pilots-union-board-meets-to-mull-over-last-company-contract-proposal-binding-arbitration-offer.html/
 
hopefully this will pass with the pilots, we know the arbitrator won't GIVE anything, and you don't want to count DP being as generious with pilots as he was with the FA's

Ya gotta just laugh.... Ya gotta. The guardians of Troy yet live.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/01/american-airlines-pilots-union-board-meets-to-mull-over-last-company-contract-proposal-binding-arbitration-offer.html/
 
hopefully this will pass with the pilots, we know the arbitrator won't GIVE anything, and you don't want to count DP being as generious with pilots as he was with the FA's 

The Arbitrator will not 'GIVE' anything to either side.  He can neither create provisions nor remove them.
 
Doug Parker's generosity, a paradoxical oxymoron if ever there was one by the way, is irrelevant.  All the pilot's need to know is that there are a number of items in MTA that Doug Parker wants out of there.  Hopefully this, assuming you mean the Company's bullet point 'proposal', neither passes with the BOD or the pilots. Because Doug hasn't offered a fair price for what he wants.
 
I doubt there is a single new AAmerican airlines employee at this stage of the honeymoon that would count on Doug Horton's 'generosity'.

 

[Black Swan]

I'm sure you'll be running off to federal court just as soon as the Arbitrators don't agree with you. I bet the complaint is already in the can. I say you do as much of your USAPA antics and bullshit with the APA that you've done for years. We'll see how effective it is now.

The arbitration cannot be appealed unless there is fraud or failure to follow the law.
Your legal team never grasped what Jeff Freund,Scott Kirby and DP warned you early on- that if bargaining agents were changed,and no JCBA, your Nicolau would not be binding.
Exactly what happened.

 

[767one]

And this is exactly why they will not. It will unfairly treat West pilots more advantageously, despite what they say has been unfair. They now have a tremendous future ahead of them if they would look. The arbitrators are well aware of how good all the parties have it going forward.

I think you have that right on. 
 
Happy New Year!

 

[Al Legheny]

A longtime advertisement in the US Airways inflight magazine has been from Karras Negotiating workshops. Their motto is:

"You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate."

The new American Pilots deserve more, however that was not was what was negotiated. The APA negotiated a backstop arbitration to give the company a fixed known cost. This clause survived various changes during the past several years. It was negotiated between APA and the current US Airways management, without the knowledge of USAPA sometime in February of 2012, prior to the public announcement of the merger. It survived as a condition of the original term sheet to the Green Book, to the MTA and now in the final contract.

The cost neutral arbitration was the price of admission to the merger and it is not some opportunity to gain more. It will very likely result in less. It was designed as a back-stop on pilot contract cost to show the creditors committee a known fixed cost for the new American Airlines and allow for the emergence from bankruptcy as a merged carrier.

The company offer is not a great deal but it is better than risking arbitration. It is not what we really deserve but it was what APA negotiated.

 

[Metroyet]

A longtime advertisement in the US Airways inflight magazine has been from Karras Negotiating workshops. Their motto is:
"You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate."
The new American Pilots deserve more, however that was not was what was negotiated. The APA negotiated a backstop arbitration to give the company a fixed known cost. This clause survived various changes during the past several years. It was negotiated between APA and the current US Airways management, without the knowledge of USAPA sometime in February of 2012, prior to the public announcement of the merger. It survived as a condition of the original term sheet to the Green Book, to the MTA and now in the final contract.
The cost neutral arbitration was the price of admission to the merger and it is not some opportunity to gain more. It will very likely result in less. It was designed as a back-stop on pilot contract cost to show the creditors committee a known fixed cost for the new American Airlines and allow for the emergence from bankruptcy as a merged carrier.
The company offer is not a great deal but it is better than risking arbitration. It is not what we really deserve but it was what APA negotiated.

It's a 1000% more than USAPA could have ever delivered. Actually, it's infinitely more as USAPA never delivered a single dime to the pilot group.

 

[EastCheats]

There is a very defined process that has to follow RLA law as well as McCaskill/Bond.
The West pilots cannot be broken out of the USAirways Pilots bargaining unit. Cannot.
As much as anyone thinks it is more fair, there is another argument backed by law that says you legally cannot do it.
If someone attempts to do it, it will go right to appeals and be denied. The arbitrators know labor law and union representational protocol. They may have a personal opinion, and write about it, but they will not break the west out and give them a seat.

Break out of the US Airways pilots bargaining unit? What is that? A club?

The APA is the bargaining agent, not the USPBU or USAPA LLC.

 

[Metroyet]

The arbitration cannot be appealed unless there is fraud or failure to follow the law.
Your legal team never grasped what Jeff Freund,Scott Kirby and DP warned you early on- that if bargaining agents were changed,and no JCBA, your Nicolau would not be binding.
Exactly what happened.

I can PROMISE you. When USAPA "loses" the mini arbitration, the little LLC from NC is going to sue. Count on it.

 

[EastCheats]

The arbitration cannot be appealed unless there is fraud or failure to follow the law.
Your legal team never grasped what Jeff Freund,Scott Kirby and DP warned you early on- that if bargaining agents were changed,and no JCBA, your Nicolau would not be binding.
Exactly what happened.

Oh...the irony. It sure was nice having that card in your back pocket saying that let's see how the arbitration turns out and change the bargaining agent if we don't get what we demand. You won't have that luxury this time around. You'll have to live with the results.

 

[nevergiveup]

I can PROMISE you. When USAPA "loses" the mini arbitration, the little LLC from NC is going to sue. Count on it.

As well they should. Not to do so could be considered as a DFR issue. Still not sure why you west boys didn't want to keep ALPA when you had the chance.