2014 Pilot Discussion

[Zone5]

And the suckers used bankruptcy as the excuse while their knees were knocking as they embraced LOA93.  And the suckers jumped all over the MOU because, well because it came with an industry sub-standard pay raise and a glossy brochure.
 
And now the suckers will jump all over another industry sub-standard pay raise, while handing over work rules and concessions as yet unknown (bullet-points are not contractual terms, suckers). I can't figure why this time there's no glossy brochure, I thought that would be a necessity when not in bankruptcy.
 
The bullet-points will be the subject of a membership vote shortly. When it passes with a healthy majority of suckers voting in favor of an hourly payrate and nothing else, I give it a full 12 months before the angst begins when they realise that their peers at Delta and United are making way more than them while working less hours with better work rules.
 
Not to worry, the angst will only last for 8 years or so, or up to the sucker retiring.  We'll take it all back and then some in Contract 2024!
 
Suckers.

2024! Anyone who thinks they know what the issues are going to be in 2024 is delusional.

By then pilots might be fighting the move to go to single piloted aircraft, which is underway as we speak. Ain't technology great!

Take the money now. There will ALWAYS be pilots who make more than you, are younger than you, better looking and luckier, so what. You have to play the cards you are dealt, not the ones you would rather have.


seajay

 

[fr8tmastr]

Idiots

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

REALLY? C'mon Man, think about it, the EAST has huge attrition, and who the F&#$ thinks JOHN OWENS is an authority, you buy that BS you buy anything! Guess you do Someone pleez tell me why he is qualified except the compass correction idiots who only serve their own agenda to a self appointed messia, someone pleez post his resume,my guess holes!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

For the record "GREEN BOOK", from me the compass correction are out for damage control , their agenda money now I am gone , and protect my secret handshakes soon to be exposed! Now OWENS credentials are what?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

JOHN OWENS RESUME? A NEG VOTE must be on to something!

 

[A320 Driver]

For the record "GREEN BOOK", from me the compass correction are out for damage control , their agenda money now I am gone , and protect my secret handshakes soon to be exposed! Now OWENS credentials are what?

Uhhh, sorry, but that post makes no sense at all.

 

[Phoenix]

Labeling the Busness Intelligence Update as fluff is also nearsighted until APA puts out valuations which either confirm or dispute what is in the update. I am pretty sure APA has already costed the items being asked by the company. Where is their shiny brochure? Where is their version of Compass Correction? How long does it take to issue a blast or an APA update correcting the numbers in the Owens update? Pilot sentiment has an inertia of its own. Wait too long and changing it becomes much more difficult, unless the BOD intends to ignore us.

 
 
Is John Owens even a member of APA?  If he is, does he know it?  
 
Chip Munn posted for John Owens on the APA C&R forum..  That is a mighty endorsement!

Owens is speculating about numbers in the middle of negotiations and undermining the negotiating committee.  He is excluded in knowledge and authority but chooses to speak any way?  How much did he get paid to do his "report?  Who paid him?  It wasn't the APA.  
 
I guess he is afraid that others might be more successful than he was.
 
If someone tells me that Parker is offering to pay nearly 20 times the value for the concessions he wants from us, that person is a dum_bass about Parker and Glass.  Were is the intelligence in that?  

 

[luvthe9]

For the record "GREEN BOOK", from me the compass correction are out for damage control , their agenda money now I am gone , and protect my secret handshakes soon to be exposed! Now OWENS credentials are what?

Funny we have not heard form the Compass Correction idiots, wonder if they are keeping the APA honest, what needs to be exposed should come out now, we have a lot of dirty dealings going on now, Owens does not belong where he is.

 

[Skymess]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/12/apa-schedules-a-jan-2-board-meeting-to-discuss-american-airlines-contract-action.html/                                                                                                                                                                 Just to be clear, the company said they gave APA the final offer and they can accept by January 3rd or they go to arbitration. Somehow that's a bluff?
 
 

 

[A320 Driver]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/12/apa-schedules-a-jan-2-board-meeting-to-discuss-american-airlines-contract-action.html/                                                                                                                                                                 Just to be clear, the company said they gave APA the final offer and they can accept by January 3rd or they go to arbitration. Somehow that's a bluff?

There are a number of posters on this sight that are part of a group that is fully ready to play chicken with the company for the ability to say "we stuck it to da man"...no matter what the cost.

Then they will view their loss as a win in their delusional minds...

 

[TBONEJ4J]

There are a number of posters on this sight that are part of a group that is fully ready to play chicken with the company for the ability to say "we stuck it to da man"...no matter what the cost.

 
Sticking with the Green Book (MTA) with it's associated payraises and one time industry indexed payraise, better work rules, with one year less duration is just good business sense. And the MTA has better work rules than the Contract that will result if the Company's bullet points are accepted.
 
I don't know of any pilot who's motivation is to be able to say "we stuck it to da man".  It's about deciding what provides the maximum return in the medium to long-term. 
 
If you're only interested in the short-term, maybe because you're near retirement, or a sucker who can't think critically, then clearly the payrate is the only thing you will look at. Does that mean those pilots only want the ability to say "we stuck it to the pilots who saw past the shiny payrate"?... Of course not. It means you either don't care what you leave behind when you go, or you're a sucker, or both.
 
The MTA is better than the company proposal. Arbitration will not change the MTA.

 

[Phoenix]

 
Sticking with the Green Book (MTA) with it's associated payraises and one time industry indexed payraise, better work rules, with one year less duration is just good business sense. And the MTA has better work rules than the Contract that will result if the Company's bullet points are accepted.
 
....
 
The MTA is better than the company proposal. Arbitration will not change the MTA.

 
 
Exactly.
 
All we have to sell is our labor.  All Parker can buy is our labor.  The MTA is the base line and Parker wants to buy on a discount...  He wants fewer pilots to work more days a month.  
 
Parker is pulling in $7B next year... He can afford to pay an industry standard calendar day in exchange for all the other industry standard concessions he wants us to sell.   
 
He can afford it.  If we sell all of these concessions for cheap, we will never get calendar day Rigs, not even by selling scope.  
 
Don't go cheap for the Purple TuTu...!   

 

[A320 Driver]

Sticking with the Green Book (MTA) with it's associated payraises and one time industry indexed payraise, better work rules, with one year less duration is just good business sense. And the MTA has better work rules than the Contract that will result if the Company's bullet points are accepted.
 
I don't know of any pilot who's motivation is to be able to say "we stuck it to da man".  It's about deciding what provides the maximum return in the medium to long-term. 
 
If you're only interested in the short-term, maybe because you're near retirement, or a sucker who can't think critically, then clearly the payrate is the only thing you will look at. Does that mean those pilots only want the ability to say "we stuck it to the pilots who saw past the shiny payrate"?... Of course not. It means you either don't care what you leave behind when you go, or you're a sucker, or both.
 
The MTA is better than the company proposal. Arbitration will not change the MTA.

And you will be disappointed again when it is voted in. Sorry, but it's in the works.

 

[Phoenix]

And you will be disappointed again when it is voted in. Sorry, but it's in the works.

 
"in the works" .. That sounds about right.   There is a short list of influential people who are politically torpedoing the BOD and speaking out of turn in public.  All draped with the flag, of course.   
 
But I still don't understand why anyone is willing to sell 7 industry standard concessions and not get one industry standard improvement in return, with the company making $7B+ in one year.  Doug told he was going to make $1B a year, and folks still go to bat for all his crew news propaganda... 

 

[TBONEJ4J]

And you will be disappointed again when it is voted in. Sorry, but it's in the works.

Disappointed? Again? I don't recall being disappointed already that I can be disappointed again. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else who was previously disappointed and may now, once again, be disappointed in the near future.
 
It is what it is, and it is indeed in the works. I won't even be surprised, again or for the first time, when the bullet point non-contract gets about a 70% 'Yes' vote. As P.T.Barnum is said to have said, "there's a sucker born every minute". That makes for plenty of 'Yes' votes. Jerrold Glass has had a lucrative career based on it. Suckers.