2014 Pilot Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

Road shows are so 1980s.  Just an excuse for the NC and APA leadership to travel other places, get hotel points for themselves and wine/dine on our dues dollars.
 
BPR should meet on Monday/Tuesday, Dec 29/30, and put the proposal out for a BallotPoint vote (with or without endorsement) by end-of-business on Dec 30.  Schedule town hall conferences on  Jan 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, so that questions can be answered.  (That would be really just a formality, since most pilots would have voted -- YES --- already once BallotPoint opens.)
 
The LUS have seen so much foot-dragging in the last 10 years on every little (and big) thing that it would be great to see something move at the pace of current technology.
 
No Road Shows! --- it is a waste of time and money, and reaches only a tiny percentage of the pilots, anyway.

 

[Phoenix]

What's special about a Jan 3 deadline? The company never acted on a deadline from us... They haven't offered us a single substantive proposal item but they still demand all seven of theirs. And don't forget they gave a 4% raise to employee groups that aren't even asking for anything (and gave no concessions to get it). Parker's deadline is a basic negotiating grenade. Ignore it.

I agree the concessions are Delta and industry standard concessions... So Parker needs to give us at least the Delta industry standard CALENDAR DAY, otherwise we are going to be sitting 30+ hours out of base on domestic and 36+ hours on international.. To work 22-25 day months.

To me calendar day is even more critical than profit sharing.

The concessions Parker cannot get in arbitration are industry standard, and the asks we have are industry standard. There is a deal to be made. Be patient.

 

[Phoenix]

Road shows are so 1980s.  Just an excuse for the NC and APA leadership to travel other places, get hotel points for themselves and wine/dine on our dues dollars.
 
BPR should meet on Monday/Tuesday, Dec 29/30, and put the proposal out for a BallotPoint vote (with or without endorsement) by end-of-business on Dec 30.  Schedule town hall conferences on  Jan 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, so that questions can be answered.  (That would be really just a formality, since most pilots would have voted -- YES --- already once BallotPoint opens.)
 
The LUS have seen so much foot-dragging in the last 10 years on every little (and big) thing that it would be great to see something move at the pace of current technology.
 
No Road Shows! --- it is a waste of time and money, and reaches only a tiny percentage of the pilots, anyway.

 
 
Why would Kirby spend the time to send all the pilots a little Christmas letter about the company offer?  Is it that he believes he can get the pilots to concede more than the BOD and Negotiating Committee?  
 
If the BOD will cost Kirby more then I say he needs to negotiate with the BOD.  We have the concessions he can't get in arbitration, and he has the money to pay for the industry standard items we have requested.  
 
Parker needs to quit artificially creating one crisis after another and he needs to man up and do what he said he would do when our revenues came up to Delta.   Its time.  
 
I support the BOD.   

 

[luvthe9]

Road shows are so 1980s.  Just an excuse for the NC and APA leadership to travel other places, get hotel points for themselves and wine/dine on our dues dollars.
 
BPR should meet on Monday/Tuesday, Dec 29/30, and put the proposal out for a BallotPoint vote (with or without endorsement) by end-of-business on Dec 30.  Schedule town hall conferences on  Jan 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, so that questions can be answered.  (That would be really just a formality, since most pilots would have voted -- YES --- already once BallotPoint opens.)
 
The LUS have seen so much foot-dragging in the last 10 years on every little (and big) thing that it would be great to see something move at the pace of current technology.
 
No Road Shows! --- it is a waste of time and money, and reaches only a tiny percentage of the pilots, anyway.

Whoa, someone is chomping at the bit to vote yes.

 

[luvthe9]

 
Parker needs to quit artificially creating one crisis after another and he needs to man up and do what he said he would do when our revenues came up to Delta.   Its time.  
 
I support the BOD.

Good luck with that one, I support them also just hope they can get a get a deal we deserve.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I'm on sick leave about to go on LTD. So even though I have 2 years and 3 months left, nobody can accuse me of 'pulling up the ladder'. There are no LTD enhancements to speak of in the JCBA.

This deal is better than anything we LUS pilots could have hoped for just a couple years back. From new hires to short timers it is a good offer. Stop making perfect the enemy of the good. Stop playing a game of chicken with P/K. The LUS group is top heavy. There is no 2019 or beyond to recapture anything.

For those of you who can never be satisfied, take the money and continue to demonstrate your lack of enthusiasm if you are so inclined.. Better to have management label you greedy and ungrateful rather than an angry group of suckers.

Finally, for those who say we LUS are just along for the ride remember the BOD is split 10 to 12. CLT and PHL are key. Communicate to your reps. Leave the emotion behind. This is business.

'84

 

[luvthe9]

I'm on sick leave about to go on LTD. So even though I have 2 years and 3 months left, nobody can accuse me of 'pulling up the ladder'. There are no LTD enhancements to speak of in the JCBA.
This deal is better than anything we LUS pilots could have hoped for just a couple years back. From new hires to short timers it is a good offer. Stop making perfect the enemy of the good. Stop playing a game of chicken with P/K. The LUS group is top heavy. There is no 2019 or beyond to recapture anything.
For those of you who can never be satisfied, take the money and continue to demonstrate your lack of enthusiasm if you are so inclined.. Better to have management label you greedy and ungrateful rather than an angry group of suckers.
Finally, for those who say we LUS are just along for the ride remember the BOD is split 10 to 12. CLT and PHL are key. Communicate to your reps. Leave the emotion behind. This is business.
'84

Not to worry this deal will pass with flying colors, word is we'll have something soon.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

What's special about a Jan 3 deadline? The company never acted on a deadline from us... They haven't offered us a single substantive proposal item but they still demand all seven of theirs. And don't forget they gave a 4% raise to employee groups that aren't even asking for anything (and gave no concessions to get it). Parker's deadline is a basic negotiating grenade. Ignore it.

I agree the concessions are Delta and industry standard concessions... So Parker needs to give us at least the Delta industry standard CALENDAR DAY, otherwise we are going to be sitting 30+ hours out of base on domestic and 36+ hours on international.. To work 22-25 day months.

To me calendar day is even more critical than profit sharing.

The concessions Parker cannot get in arbitration are industry standard, and the asks we have are industry standard. There is a deal to be made. Be patient.

 
Obviously there is no significance to January 3rd, other than that is when Doug, Scott, Jerry, and assorted Labor Relations minions return from the Christmas/New Years holiday, which they took as off days, while the pilots went to work and argued with each other about the 'proposal' the Company floated in right before 'management' clocked-out and went off on Christmas vacation.
 
Negotiating 101. The deadline. The price for this car is only good until close of business today. Unbelievable that pilots fall for it time and time again.
 
Roadshows are kind of yesterday's thing. We have the internet now. Time should be taken to provide various analyses available online so pilots can see what they might be agreeing to with the Company proposal versus what they have right now with the MTA (which will survive as-is, in an Arbitration, so long as APA doesn't try to get so much as an extra cent in per diem).
 
Before bowing down to the shiny payrates, an analysis may show that under the company proposal, that awesome 4-day that pays 23hrs today with a per-diem supported long stay at an exotic destination that only flys 3 legs, will now pay 11hrs with 40hrs at the Ramada with the bedbugs 15 miles from the beach.
 
There needs to be time to review, assess and appraise any proposal. For either a 'yes' or a 'no'.  Artificial deadlines are created to get the suckers to sign.
 
If it does get to the point where an online 'roadshow' analysis happens, can we not be so dumb as to do it based on a bullet-point proposal? 
 
Get actual contract language finalised and then analyse.  After all, the devil is in the details. If you don't have any details, how can you see where the devil is?
 
Deadlines? Bullet points? Seriously, you can't make this stuff up. Happy New Year Jerrold! You've done it again.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
Why would Kirby spend the time to send all the pilots a little Christmas letter about the company offer?  Is it that he believes he can get the pilots to concede more than the BOD and Negotiating Committee?  
 
If the BOD will cost Kirby more then I say he needs to negotiate with the BOD.  We have the concessions he can't get in arbitration, and he has the money to pay for the industry standard items we have requested.  
 
Parker needs to quit artificially creating one crisis after another and he needs to man up and do what he said he would do when our revenues came up to Delta.   Its time.  
 
I support the BOD.   

 
Parker owes us NOTHING except the cost neutral arbitration we all signed on to. 
 
Bottom line: The company proposal on the table is substantially better than a cost neutral arbitration.  Are we going to walk away from that in a stupid attempt to "show Parker" how tough we are?  Like the flight attendants?  Great idea.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Whoa, someone is chomping at the bit to vote yes.

 
I have not voted yes to anything since the ballot to bring USAPA onboard, but given the chance, I will vote YES on this proposal.

 

[luvthe9]

Parker owes us NOTHING except the cost neutral arbitration we all signed on to. 
 
Bottom line: The company proposal on the table is substantially better than a cost neutral arbitration.  Are we going to walk away from that in a stupid attempt to "show Parker" how tough we are?  Like the flight attendants?  Great idea.

Absolutely not, we will take anything that is given to us and be happy, call your reps tell to vote for it, we will have this deal soon.

 

[A320 Driver]

Change of heart or an attempt at sarcasm?

 

[TBONEJ4J]

 
Bottom line: The company proposal on the table is substantially better than a cost neutral arbitration.  Are we going to walk away from that in a stupid attempt to "show Parker" how tough we are?

No it isn't. The MTA is superior. At least one can read what's in the MTA.
 
Are you appraising the company proposal based on bullet points and shiny pay tables?  If so, you're appraisal isn't valid.  Valuing something sight unseen is just dumb.
 
For me at least I couldn't care less about Parker. Just another modern day CEO with a team of over-compensated sycophants. 
 
This has nothing to do with showing Parker anything.
 
It's about maximizing the amount of money I get for the least amount of work, and not being so dumb as to pay the used car salesman a record price for a junk car that you'll regret buying as soon as you get it off the lot.
 
The MTA is much better than the Company proposal.  Arbitration is not a gamble.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Absolutely not, we will take anything that is given to us and be happy, call your reps tell to vote for it, we will have this deal soon.

 
I get the sarcasm.  Are you totally oblivious (or something else) to the fact that: THIS IS NOT SECTION 6 NEGOTIATIONS?  Parker can say "Take it or leave it" with impunity because he knows either way, he wins.
 
Our only options here is to whether he wins big, or simply wins.

 

[luvthe9]

Change of heart or an attempt at sarcasm?

What ever the company chooses to give us is the best we can do, no one here has the will to fight for a Delta contract, the money is great and everybody only thinks of themselves so this will have no problem passing.