2014 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

Seriously? The PROCESS makes the award fair. Yep. It was demonstrably FAIR to place a new hire above a guy with 17 years. Anyone who says it isn't fair is just interjecting their own OPINION. The process and the award, are 100% fair by definition.

You got EXACTLY what you deserved with that position. Proof positive that HOGS get slaughtered.
Meanwhile, east pilots reap the benefit of Fergusons intrangisence. 330 upgrades, 320 upgrades by the hundreds.
You will live to regret that position forever.
Ask Eric Ferguson why he passed on the Nicolau Award.

 

[Claxon]

east 320 captains forecasted to go to 4 yr hires. It has gotten that good for them.

 

[nevergiveup]

Seriously? The PROCESS makes the award fair. Yep. It was demonstrably FAIR to place a new hire above a guy with 17 years. Anyone who says it isn't fair is just interjecting their own OPINION. The process and the award, are 100% fair by definition.

There is a reason why it was never implemented. Fair is if everyone who works here 30 years gets to fly 15 as captain, gets half of his holidays off, and gets the beef crew meal 50% of the time. (having the room beside the ice machine will be covered next week!)

 

[luvthe9]

east 320 captains forecasted to go to 4 yr hires. It has gotten that good for them.

Bet they will still be locked in PHX all that time, no new hires want to go the PHX they realize there is nothing but stagnation there.


Remember Ferguson and Koontz lied to all the west pilots and now you are and have been paying for it. You are in debt big time with Marty and very little funds coming in now.

 

[luvthe9]

AOL will go down in history as destroying the careers of the west pilots.

 

[dariencc]

 
Eight days a month including eight dead heads. 
 
Eat your heart out , fat man.

 
Daddy got him the job over more motivated, better qualified candidates.  And now he brags about being the least productive slug on the property.  Priceless!

 

[Pi brat]

I must have just missed Metroyet, it wasn't that hard of a question.

 

[A320 Driver]

I must have just missed Metroyet, it wasn't that hard of a question.

If it doesn't agree with the West agenda, it's a hard question.

 

[usabusdriver]

I see your points, but I disagree, and I disagreed with the questions the arbitrator was asking Pauley. We never merged seniority lists. Until the MOU, we never merged fleets. We were separate, with no idea of when we would get to the point that you speak of. We all agreed to go into this with 3 lists, so it should be three merging into one. Sure, if you do that and you remove the AA pilots you would have a US order, but if you remove the east pilots, you will have a AWA/AA order. So what?
 
My point is that if the panel follows history, if they use the Nic and do no bump no flush, they are in effect giving US pilots double coverage on the captain positions that east pilots have taken. I don't see it.
 
We'll see. Hey, I've been wrong a time or two before.

 
 
PI,
 
The problem in your logic is that the arbitrators take into consideration pilot group equities over individual equities. Pilots do not all bid in a stovepipe manner.  Many bid for quality of life.  So, hypothetically, if the Nic is used to order the LUS pilots in the main SLI arbitration, just because there would be west pilots senior to east pilots who hold captain positions does in no way equate to increased captain positions.  There is a finite number of captain positions for each group of aircraft.
 
The methodology is to not focus on INDIVIDUALS but on the GROUP.  If the group as a whole has so many captain positions filled, where any individual who fills that position is on the seniority list is irrelevant.
 
If you took the seniority list position of the junior most AB captain awarded in the last permanent bid, that positional number would NOT constitute the number of captain slots to be ratioed in the integration with LAA pilots for narrow body aircraft.  Why?  Because many many pilots who hold a higher seniority position could have bid that position, and chose to bid for some other position.
 
And a minor point.  We did merge seniority lists, we got the Nic, but we never implemented it.  

 

[traderjake]

 And now he brags about being the least productive slug on the property. 

 
Are you trying to thank me for being a good union pilot?

 

[Pi brat]

 
 
PI,
 
The problem in your logic is that the arbitrators take into consideration pilot group equities over individual equities. Pilots do not all bid in a stovepipe manner.  Many bid for quality of life.  So, hypothetically, if the Nic is used to order the LUS pilots in the main SLI arbitration, just because there would be west pilots senior to east pilots who hold captain positions does in no way equate to increased captain positions.  There is a finite number of captain positions for each group of aircraft.
 
The methodology is to not focus on INDIVIDUALS but on the GROUP.  If the group as a whole has so many captain positions filled, where any individual who fills that position is on the seniority list is irrelevant.
 
If you took the seniority list position of the junior most AB captain awarded in the last permanent bid, that positional number would NOT constitute the number of captain slots to be ratioed in the integration with LAA pilots for narrow body aircraft.  Why?  Because many many pilots who hold a higher seniority position could have bid that position, and chose to bid for some other position.
 
And a minor point.  We did merge seniority lists, we got the Nic, but we never implemented it.  

I understand your point and agree about the stovepipe, but I think you're missing the point.
 
Even though it is more stovepipe, you usually have a large number of guys actually in those positions. With this situation, if you used the Nic, you would have close to a thousand guys that aren't in the bid position, but would have the place on the list. So, going forward, you would be giving them super seniority over AA guys for bidding vacancies. Like the 517 on the US list. They didn't all bring widebody captain positions, but they got the bidding horsepower, had the Nic gone in effect, and allowed them to go on top of lots of AWA pilots. So you would have the east guys already in those positions, and the west guys gaining a spot in line over AA guys, when they didn't bring a higher paying position.
 
Does that make sense?

 

[flyingskier]

I understand your point and agree about the stovepipe, but I think you're missing the point.
 
Even though it is more stovepipe, you usually have a large number of guys actually in those positions. With this situation, if you used the Nic, you would have close to a thousand guys that aren't in the bid position, but would have the place on the list. So, going forward, you would be giving them super seniority over AA guys for bidding vacancies. Like the 517 on the US list. They didn't all bring widebody captain positions, but they got the bidding horsepower, had the Nic gone in effect, and allowed them to go on top of lots of AWA pilots. So you would have the east guys already in those positions, and the west guys gaining a spot in line over AA guys, when they didn't bring a higher paying position.
 
Does that make sense?

Another issue that will be a bi-product, but could have ripple effects across the system is the PHX base staffing level. Today there are 1200+ (?) pilots based in PHX. Based on the staffing and level of mainline flying in PHL, CLT and DCA, PHX has 600 too many pilots. The base will be right sized by management, first chance they get.

So in a system bid that includes LAA bases, those pilots using there (NIC?) seniority will displace LAA Captains and Wide body F/O's in LAX and DFW? I don't think so. There would be mutiny among the LAA pilots in those bases.

Skier

 

[end_of_alpa]

December 19, 2014 America West Merger Committee Update
   
 
The Preliminary Arbitration hearings in Washington D.C concluded on Wednesday, December 17. The hearings spanned three full days, culminating in closing arguments by all parties yesterday afternoon. The Protocol Agreement asks that the arbitrators issue an award within 30 days of the close of the hearings, which would be Friday, January 16, 2015.
As we stated in our previous communications, we have adopted the practice of the former AWA ALPA Merger Committee of not providing commentary during the pendency of hearings, and instead posting all hearing transcripts on the internet as soon as they become available. All three days of hearing transcripts are available on our website.www.west-merger-committee.com. We did our best to provide an objective summary of the issues that were to be argued in the Preliminary Arbitration before the hearings began, and the transcripts themselves best describe how the parties tackled those issues in the hearing itself.
Despite our policy of not providing commentary regarding arbitration hearings, we would like to take a few moments to discuss one issue argued in the hearings, as it provides an important perspective on where we are today. Specifically, we encourage you to focus on both the opening and closing statements of Ed James, General Counsel of our new union, the Allied Pilots Association (APA). In his statements, Mr. James eloquently describes how APA’s duty of fair representation plays a role in the upcoming McCaskill-Bond process:
“It's almost a prototypical breach as if the Union were to defer to a larger group of -- segment of the workforce it represents, and there's evidence of hostility between that group and another group, for APA to defer is the definition of a breach of duty of fair representation.”
Mr. James further explains that APA's attempts to accommodate the West pilots is perhaps not something that the overwhelming majority of its members might want, and in fact, AA & APA's insistence that there be a West merger committee contributed to a several month delay of APA's succession as our bargaining agent.
While most of you might find APA's explanation of DFR refreshing in light of USAPA's long-held view of that same legal duty, we highlight this only because it makes very clearly that the America West pilots would not otherwise be afforded ANY accommodation but for the fact of our viable legal claim, coupled with our demonstrated ability to repeatedly and consistently organize and fund class litigation. USAPA could have never prevailed on the merits of a DFR claim if it unilaterally abandoned the Nicolau Award, but could have easily prevailed had it been successful with its concerted efforts to bankrupt and divide us. It didn’t succeed. And although the courts have so far found that the Railway Labor Act cannot be fairly interpreted to provide us timely justice in our situation, those same courts have consistently recognized the injustice USAPA has visited on us and provided sufficient forward-looking admonitions regarding our seniority situation that our successor union APA has taken quite seriously.
We would like to take a moment to thank our legal team who worked long hard hours this week to put on an incredible case on our behalf: Marty Harper of ASU Alumni Law Firm PLLC, and Jeff Freund, Josh Shiffrin, and paralegal Christine Heffernan of Bredhoff & Kaiser PLLC.
We would also like to thank each and every America West pilot for their ongoing moral and financial support, and to wish all of you and your families a very happy holiday season. We believe the new year will begin with some newfound optimism for our pilot group, and we look forward to speaking to you then.
 
Sincerely,
The America West Merger Committee

Well the APA siding with the Company to somehow "provide Justice" to the "underclass" buy espousing their DFR when the reason for M-B was the APA! Wilder beat James down with the real reason that their DFR doesnt apply under M-B because THEY DONT HAVE ONE WITH THE PAB denying the West class a seat.

Have a Happy Holiday West soon to be APA pilots! It will be ten years next year when the seniority list comes out. Enjoy PHX!

 

[luvthe9]

"Delta Takes Aim at American for Its Lack of Profit Sharing"

This week, media outlet TheStreet reported that Delta has released employee communications regarding the disparity of total pay between American Airlines and Delta employees and their opinion of the difference in culture. The following are excerpts from the article.

Stories on a Delta employee Web site, posted Monday and Tuesday, attack rival American for not paying profit sharing in a year when Delta will pay out more than $1 billion.
Tuesday's story (Delta's employee communique) began: "Despite pressure from his employees to implement a profit-sharing program, American Airlines CEO Doug Parker said Monday that profit sharing is outdated."
The story noted that Alaska, Southwest and United all have profit-sharing programs, and said "Delta is expected to pay more than $1 billion in profit sharing to employees for 2014, the highest payout in the industry. Total 2014 profit sharing for Delta employees will average nearly two months' salary."
A similar story was posted on the Delta Web site on Monday. It was titled, "Delta compensation eclipses American counterparts," and began with this sentence: "Delta people will earn on average 26% more total pay in 2014 than their American Airlines counterparts, according to Delta's latest competitive review of compensation."
The story (Delta employee communique) quoted Parker, in an interview with Reuters, as saying, "We should move back to what normal industrial companies do, which is pay people [what] they earn" without profit sharing.
That story said Parker "has been opposed to profit sharing for his employees even as the company reported surging profits," and referred to two recent statements Parker has made. In one, Parker declared at an employee meeting in November that "it's just not the right way to pay 100,000 employees that don't have that much impact on the daily profits." Earlier, Parker told an investor conference that companies pay employees a fair wage, and then distribute remaining profits to shareholders. In such cases, profits are not shared with employees, he said.
"The philosophy is different at Delta," the article said. "The goal is a business model that is consistently profitable even amidst events like global outbreaks of disease, political unrest and spikes in jet fuel prices."
The Delta communique added: The end of profit-sharing at American comes as company executives boast that they will become the most profitable airline next year. "I think were going to lead the industry in pre-tax profit margins next year," Scott Kirby, American's president, told Wall Street analysts during the company's quarterly earnings conference call in October. Parker added: "We said out-of-the-box that if we're going to be the largest airline in the world, we should be the most profitable "

 

[Claxon]

Marcus Lemonus of The Profit recently visited Leonidas. He was stunned the organization that is only known for selling $675.00 ties is still in business. Better yet, he could not fathom why members continue to let the sham pilot/attorney Ferguson run the money in Marty Harpers direction. Never, he was heard to say, has CNBC stumbled across a worse operation. He simply walked out the door, making no offer.
Rumor says Marty Harper will make a Shark Tank appearance with the $675.00 Leonidas Tie pitch.