2014 Pilot Discussion

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You can say Reed is a company shill for reporting this, but here is the flight attendant outcome and Bob Mann hits the nail on the head.
 
The arbitration was a "head snap" two days!  It's coming to an arbitration near you.
 
 

At American Airlines, the Arbitration That Nobody Wanted Has Ended
By Ted Reed 
| 12/08/14 - 06:45 AM EST
NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- The arbitration that nobody wanted has ended with Laura Glading maintaining that it went well, "but you never know in arbitration. 
 "We put on an excellent case," Glading, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents 24,000 American Airlines (AAL) flight attendants, said in an interview. "We did think it was important to have some 'me-toos,' because we wanted to be sure we are treated fairly. We put up some good arguments for the 'me-toos.'" 
Must Read: At American Airlines, Laura Glading Battles On Despite Contract Defeat

In the arbitration, APFA asked for the "me-too" clauses providing them with profit-sharing and better health insurance if other unions secure those items in negotiations, as well as retroactivity to Dec. 2 for the pay raises flight attendants have secured. "It seemed silly to postpone (the raises)," Glading said. 
The arbitration took just two days, even though it had been scheduled to include sessions through Dec. 30. A ruling is expected in early January. 
American, in a prepared statement, said it continues "to work through the process to reach joint labor contracts for all of our work groups, including our flight attendants who will realize significant wage increases when the arbitration is complete." 
The two sides had agreed to arbitration if they could not secure a contract. In votes counted Nov. 9, a tentative contract agreement was opposed by 8,196 flight attendants while just 16 fewer backed it. 

APFA has estimated that the rejected contract agreement was worth about $81 million more than the contract the flight attendants will work under. But the arbitration contract will still represent an improvement of $112 million over existing contracts. 
Twenty-nine-year flight attendant Trice Johnson, a leader of the opposition to the tentative agreement and a candidate for Miami base president in upcoming APFA elections, said two days was too short.

"The majority of the flight attendant membership that rejected the TA viewed the less-than-two-days hurried arbitration testimony as reckless and punitive by a union leadership miffed by the fact that they could not sell a flawed tentative agreement to its members," Johnson said.

American flight attendants have "steadily and voluntarily given back concession after concession for more than a decade," he said, adding, "The union could have spent the members' time more wisely by utilizing an appropriate time line (30 full days of testimony) to present a thoughtful and accurate case to the arbitrators." 
A union spokesman responded: "The arbitration parameters were very clear. APFA proved to the company and the arbitrators what a market contract is worth. We then explained how we wanted that value. The contentious issues were the 'me-toos' which we debated thoroughly."

The APFA remains bitterly divided following the contract vote. The divisions are likely to be reflected in elections at the union's dozen bases, with campaigns ramping up now and interest unusually high.  

Must Read: American Airlines' Surprise Labor Issues Again Complicate a Merger

Glading said she realizes that members "would prefer TA wages over arbitration wages and I won't give up trying to get them more pay." 
It is widely felt that contract opponents assumed rejection would result in a modification of the contract offer and a second vote. Glading reminded that creditors in the American bankruptcy would not have agreed to back a new management team, which came from US Airways, were it not for the commitment to arbitration if contract agreements failed. 
"We cut a deal with the backstop of arbitration," she said. "Absent that deal, there would not have been a merger. We would have been a standalone company, in poor shape and living under an 1113 {bankruptcy} contract providing far less than what we have, even in arbitration." 
Some observers speculate that the airline could seek a way to channel more money to flight attendants. Is a Christmas bonus possible? "If I could make that happen, I would," Glading said. 

But airline consultant Bob Mann said it's impossible. "Making it up to flight attendants would open the flood gates on other contracts and encourage turning down other tentative agreements to try to improve their value,"" he said.  
-- Written by Ted Reed in Charlotte, N.C.

To contact this writer, click here.

Follow @tedreednc
 
I like THIS ONE:  Laura Glading BEGGING Doug for the $81 MILLION dollars MORE than they get under arbitration.....BEGGING!!!
 
"The Company and the APFA AGREED that the $81 Million dollar reduction should be accomplished through a REDUCTION in the T/A PAY RATES."
 
Looks like the F/A's are getting a Christmas HAIRCUT!  HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!
 
Start buying AAL stock because seniority list ARBITRATION issues will TOP this for the Pilots because seniority means whatever any-one pilot wants IT to be!!!  UNITY.
 
Works for shareholders.
 
end_of_alpa said:
 
You can say Reed is a company shill for reporting this, but here is the flight attendant outcome and Bob Mann hits the nail on the head.
 
The arbitration was a "head snap" two days!  It's coming to an arbitration near you.
 
 
At American Airlines, the Arbitration That Nobody Wanted Has Ended
By Ted Reed 
| 12/08/14 - 06:45 AM EST
NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- The arbitration that nobody wanted has ended with Laura Glading maintaining that it went well, "but you never know in arbitration. 
 "We put on an excellent case," Glading, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents 24,000 American Airlines (AAL) flight attendants, said in an interview. "We did think it was important to have some 'me-toos,' because we wanted to be sure we are treated fairly. We put up some good arguments for the 'me-toos.'" 
Must Read: At American Airlines, Laura Glading Battles On Despite Contract Defeat

In the arbitration, APFA asked for the "me-too" clauses providing them with profit-sharing and better health insurance if other unions secure those items in negotiations, as well as retroactivity to Dec. 2 for the pay raises flight attendants have secured. "It seemed silly to postpone (the raises)," Glading said. 
The arbitration took just two days, even though it had been scheduled to include sessions through Dec. 30. A ruling is expected in early January. 
American, in a prepared statement, said it continues "to work through the process to reach joint labor contracts for all of our work groups, including our flight attendants who will realize significant wage increases when the arbitration is complete." 
The two sides had agreed to arbitration if they could not secure a contract. In votes counted Nov. 9, a tentative contract agreement was opposed by 8,196 flight attendants while just 16 fewer backed it. 

APFA has estimated that the rejected contract agreement was worth about $81 million more than the contract the flight attendants will work under. But the arbitration contract will still represent an improvement of $112 million over existing contracts. 
Twenty-nine-year flight attendant Trice Johnson, a leader of the opposition to the tentative agreement and a candidate for Miami base president in upcoming APFA elections, said two days was too short.

"The majority of the flight attendant membership that rejected the TA viewed the less-than-two-days hurried arbitration testimony as reckless and punitive by a union leadership miffed by the fact that they could not sell a flawed tentative agreement to its members," Johnson said.

American flight attendants have "steadily and voluntarily given back concession after concession for more than a decade," he said, adding, "The union could have spent the members' time more wisely by utilizing an appropriate time line (30 full days of testimony) to present a thoughtful and accurate case to the arbitrators." 
A union spokesman responded: "The arbitration parameters were very clear. APFA proved to the company and the arbitrators what a market contract is worth. We then explained how we wanted that value. The contentious issues were the 'me-toos' which we debated thoroughly."

The APFA remains bitterly divided following the contract vote. The divisions are likely to be reflected in elections at the union's dozen bases, with campaigns ramping up now and interest unusually high.  

Must Read: American Airlines' Surprise Labor Issues Again Complicate a Merger

Glading said she realizes that members "would prefer TA wages over arbitration wages and I won't give up trying to get them more pay." 
It is widely felt that contract opponents assumed rejection would result in a modification of the contract offer and a second vote. Glading reminded that creditors in the American bankruptcy would not have agreed to back a new management team, which came from US Airways, were it not for the commitment to arbitration if contract agreements failed. 
"We cut a deal with the backstop of arbitration," she said. "Absent that deal, there would not have been a merger. We would have been a standalone company, in poor shape and living under an 1113 {bankruptcy} contract providing far less than what we have, even in arbitration." 
Some observers speculate that the airline could seek a way to channel more money to flight attendants. Is a Christmas bonus possible? "If I could make that happen, I would," Glading said. 

But airline consultant Bob Mann said it's impossible. "Making it up to flight attendants would open the flood gates on other contracts and encourage turning down other tentative agreements to try to improve their value,"" he said.  
-- Written by Ted Reed in Charlotte, N.C.

To contact this writer, click here.

Follow @tedreednc

 
 
 
The anger of a mob is like a pendulum.  A union mob is no different.  Sometimes union anger is against the company, sometimes apathetic, and sometimes it swings back against the union leaders.  
 
The company will kick the can and bide its time until the mob turns on the union leaders, just like they did for LOA 93, for the MOU (CLT recall), and for every other sh!tty contract that the "let my daddy vote" Munnites tremblers have begged for.
 
We know the company will manufacture and exploit division between the union leaders and the members.  We have seen it repeated year after year.   The company will continue to poke at us, stick at us, and throw fire in our jail cell.  It is coming.  
 
When the BOD rejects the company last best offer we know what the company response will be.  
 
EastCheats said:
Self critique?
You and your pal East have victim mentalities and are in the need of some new material or another scapegoat. You're just meaningless background noise.
Looks like EastCheats has assumed the position of resident West poster for the next 4 month tour.
 
Phoenix said:
 
 
The anger of a mob is like a pendulum.  A union mob is no different.  Sometimes union anger is against the company, sometimes apathetic, and sometimes it swings back against the union leaders.  
 
The company will kick the can and bide its time until the mob turns on the union leaders, just like they did for LOA 93, for the MOU (CLT recall), and for every other sh!tty contract that the "let my daddy vote" Munnites tremblers have begged for.
 
We know the company will manufacture and exploit division between the union leaders and the members.  We have seen it repeated year after year.   The company will continue to poke at us, stick at us, and throw fire in our jail cell.  It is coming.  
 
When the BOD rejects the company last best offer we know what the company response will be.  
EXACTLY!!!
 
luvthe9 said:
At Delta, we believe long-term success requires that our people, customers and investors win together, CEO Richard Anderson said in a letter sent to employees Wednesday. ...............................We have always been committed to sharing with employees the success they help create.
This is what a company does when it has a direct relationship with employees, said spokeswoman Kate Modolo. This is part of who we are. Were sharing these profits with our people.
"Last month, Delta got in its competitors faces, as CEO Richard Anderson touted Deltas profit sharing plan, which will return $1 billion to employees this year, while jabbing American and United. The former has no profit-sharing; the latter has less profit to share."
USAPA proved to Parker how stupid pilots can be and that they don't need to be respected in any way.
 
Metroyet said:
USAPA proved to Parker how stupid pilots can be and that they don't need to be respected in any way.
 
USAPA did that? Sigh...Nice try "spartan." Speaking of "proved to Parker how stupid pilots can be and that they don't need to be respected in any way."...?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzpMjT58WY&index=7&list=PL5DCDEE4D2ADA2659
 
In between the squealing sounds made by that pathetic buffoon's eager sucking on and licking of management shoe soles comes the following at approx 1:45 into this mindless and utterly disgusting cheerleading for management: "Meanwhile, in the bleachers, a PHX domicile update encourages pilots to keep their noses clean."
 
Take your very best shot at trying to spin that.
 
EastCheats said:
Good thing an unqualified idiot like Cleary is not in charge.
 
Good thing for Parker he has a tribe of "useful idiots" in PHX that he can always rely on to help him set the lowest possible bar.
 
"In between the squealing sounds made by that pathetic buffoon's eager sucking on and licking of management shoe soles comes the following at approx 1:45 into this mindless and utterly disgusting cheerleading for management: "Meanwhile, in the bleachers, a PHX domicile update encourages pilots to keep their noses clean."
 
Take your very best shot at trying to spin that."
 
Btw, if a minus vote's the best attempt "you'se" can make at spinning the facts here, then perhaps during the next MENSA meeting among your colony of invertebrate sea sponges, a more lenghty discussion should at least be attempted regarding the true nature of your long-established relationship with management. Seriously, the slurping sounds of "you'se" tongues on management shoe soles has grown tiresome over the years.
 
EastUS1 said:
Good thing for Parker he has a tribe of "useful idiots" in PHX that he can always rely on to help him set the lowest possible bar.
Oh, the ones acquired in 2005? Yea, show the APA Ucrapa's industry leading contract. What? You don't have one? Fine job, you get a pat on the head and a lollipop.
 
EastCheats said:
Oh, the ones acquired in 2005? Yea, show the APA Ucrapa's industry leading contract. What? You don't have one? Fine job, you get a pat on the head and a lollipop.
 
Good point. Silly me. "You'se" are right. All should seek to emulate the "industry leading" levels of compensation EVER achieved at AWA...Right? Sigh..if a lollipop would help wean your bunch off licking management shoe soles, then have a whole box of them on me...heck, make it at least a few pallets stacked with lollipops. ;)
 
Your esteemed ex MEC Chairman Johnny M. directly asked of the CEO, on camera, if he "should turn in" his supposedly fellow pilots for the crime of having both engines running during any taxi ops, and "Meanwhile, in the bleachers, a PHX domicile update encourages pilots to keep their noses clean."  Your supposed "thoughts" there, if anything remotely approaching thoughts are even possible...?
 
P.S. Have "you'se" mighty "spartans" in PHX finally figured out that "Doug" isn't really your first-name-basis/best-friend-forever? Can any of the rest of us at least hope that some of you have woken up at ALL?
 
EastUS1 said:
Your esteemed ex MEC Chairman Johnny M. directly asked of the CEO, on camera, if he "should turn in" his supposedly fellow pilots for the crime of having both engines running during any taxi ops, and "Meanwhile, in the bleachers, a PHX domicile update encourages pilots to keep their noses clean."  Your supposed "thoughts" there, if anything remotely approaching thoughts are even possible...?
 
Addendum: In now a bit over 6 decades of life, it's NEVER been my experience that anyone can be only momentarily and conditionally treacherous in their true personal nature. One either has a moral compass, or not.
 
EastUS1 said:
USAPA did that? Sigh...Nice try "spartan." Speaking of "proved to Parker how stupid pilots can be and that they don't need to be respected in any way."...?
 

 
In between the squealing sounds made by that pathetic buffoon's eager sucking on and licking of management shoe soles comes the following at approx 1:45 into this mindless and utterly disgusting cheerleading for management: "Meanwhile, in the bleachers, a PHX domicile update encourages pilots to keep their noses clean."
 
Take your very best shot at trying to spin that.
How much money did those videos cost you? Nothing. That's the answer. USAPA kept you on LOA 93 for five extra years. And they never secured one single contractual improvement without the APA. U.S. air pilots lost over a billion dollars in W2 pay. Spin that.
 
Metroyet said:
How much money did those videos cost you? Nothing.
 
If you're simply seeking to prove yourself hopelessly stupid and utterly oblivious to the clear message such mindless support for management sent, as well as your being clueless to the equally clear message sent that they had/have treacherous, ("should I turn them in?") likely strike-breaking "useful idiots" at their beck and call in PHX, well, you've succeeded.
 
"Spin that."...?
 
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