2014 Pilot Discussion

[luvthe9]

"If either the board or the membership decides to reject any agreement, a cost-neutral binding arbitration will determine the final outcome, as stipulated by the memorandum of understanding. The MOU specifies that the arbitrators' award "specifically shall adhere to the economic terms of the MTA and shall not change the MTA's Scope terms (Paragraph 25 of this Memorandum) or the modifications generated through the process set forth in Paragraph 24 of this Memorandum"



Who would be dumb enough to vote for an MOU with this language in it, we will never learn.

 

[luvthe9]

Another classic..........




"Specifically, Doug Parker told APA: "When we make Delta profits, I'll pay you Delta wages."He also told the APA board that because this Delta pay issue may be problematic with the unsecured creditors, he couldn't make it a part of the written contract, but he assured APA this would occur. The problem is that in the company's recent "take it or leave it" proposal, we would be paid "Delta wages" for only the first year of the contract; we would then trail them for many years beyond. Their proposal, of course, also didn't include profit-sharing, which last year equated to an additional 15% for Delta pilots and was conditional on accepting several work rule concessions."



"Unfortunately, for whatever reason, this management team continues to see it differently. Remember Doug Parker's recent comment that employees don't have that much impact on daily profits. Frank Lorenzo would be proud. In fact, in an article published last year, Lorenzo commented that "Doug Parker got it right." That endorsement speaks for itself."

 

[Claxon]

Another classic..........
"Specifically, Doug Parker told APA: "When we make Delta profits, I'll pay you Delta wages."He also told the APA board that because this Delta pay issue may be problematic with the unsecured creditors, he couldn't make it a part of the written contract, but he assured APA this would occur. The problem is that in the company's recent "take it or leave it" proposal, we would be paid "Delta wages" for only the first year of the contract; we would then trail them for many years beyond. Their proposal, of course, also didn't include profit-sharing, which last year equated to an additional 15% for Delta pilots and was conditional on accepting several work rule concessions."
"Unfortunately, for whatever reason, this management team continues to see it differently. Remember Doug Parker's recent comment that employees don't have that much impact on daily profits. Frank Lorenzo would be proud. In fact, in an article published last year, Lorenzo commented that "Doug Parker got it right." That endorsement speaks for itself."

Ask SNAPTHIS. He was all over it. america west pilots will vote for every bad contract and set the bar at an industry low. Them and many LUS pilots. The two together will drag the Native American pilots down as well. The most numerous pilot group in the industry and potentially powerful labor group will be hobbled by Doug Parker. He is the master.
Parker is in a huge hurry to lock down a contract before the record setting Delta contract. I guarantee he pulls it off.

 

[A320 Driver]

I voted for it and both of you have been the beneficiaries of that vote with pay, benefits and increased retirement contributions for 2 years. Maybe they should have made it voluntary so you and yours could stay on LOA93...

 

[luvthe9]

Count on this............





"If we accepted the company's proposal, we would receive next year's pay raise a year early; however, we have to pay for it with permanent quality-of-life concessions. Furthermore, if we accept the company's proposal, within about a year, we will again be below our peers at Delta and likely will remain there for another five to seven years."

 

[luvthe9]

I voted for it and both of you have been the beneficiaries of that vote with pay, benefits and increased retirement contributions for 2 years. Maybe they should have made it voluntary so you and yours could stay on LOA93...

Remember when you see a Delta pilot look away in shame, he's better than you.


I do admire you for being happy to be at the bottom.

 

[Claxon]

I voted for it and both of you have been the beneficiaries of that vote with pay, benefits and increased retirement contributions for 2 years. Maybe they should have made it voluntary so you and yours could stay on LOA93...

When you voted the 330 captain pay to a level below a Jetblue 320 captain, you must have been proud.
I have heard of an Airways captain who bought his sons a 310 to build multi time. Then they were hired. Are you one of them?

 

[Claxon]

One can understand the west pilots absence. It must be exceedingly embarrassing to have dropped your career into the lap of a greedy 2004 hire named Eric Ferguson.
And then believed his wild stories told through the imaginary army organization of Leonidas.
Millions of dollars spent for naught. Ask Eric why he passed on the Nicolau with the fence that would now be gone. That is if he has the stones to ride the elevator down to the crew room and face those he stole from.

 

[A320 Driver]

When you voted the 330 captain pay to a level below a Jetblue 320 captain, you must have been proud.
I have heard of an Airways captain who bought his sons a 310 to build multi time. Then they were hired. Are you one of them?

My Father had a seventh grade education because he had to go to work full time when his father passed away. He worked with his hands his entire life. I paid for my own flying lessons working after school starting when I was sixteen. I was taught to appreciate what you have, that covetousness was a sin, and that nothing in life is guaranteed.
I don't like the offer that management made us because it was disingenuous and had a hook in it. I won't continually whine about the MOU. It moved us off of LOA93 and improved our pay immensely. We will get our parity review in due time. My guess is when we get our Delta/United parity, you will still find plenty to be unhappy about.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Another classic..........




"Specifically, Doug Parker told APA: "When we make Delta profits, I'll pay you Delta wages."He also told the APA board that because this Delta pay issue may be problematic with the unsecured creditors, he couldn't make it a part of the written contract, but he assured APA this would occur. The problem is that in the company's recent "take it or leave it" proposal, we would be paid "Delta wages" for only the first year of the contract; we would then trail them for many years beyond. Their proposal, of course, also didn't include profit-sharing, which last year equated to an additional 15% for Delta pilots and was conditional on accepting several work rule concessions."



"Unfortunately, for whatever reason, this management team continues to see it differently. Remember Doug Parker's recent comment that employees don't have that much impact on daily profits. Frank Lorenzo would be proud. In fact, in an article published last year, Lorenzo commented that "Doug Parker got it right." That endorsement speaks for itself."

I'm throwing the BS flag on this one.  So you mean to tell ME that the APA was PROMISED Delta wages......PROMISED?  The excuse was the unsecured creditors.  UNSECURED CREDITORS???  Whhhhaaatttt?  The GREAT AND POWERFUL APA????
 
We got the Delta rates in the MOU to be started on 01/2016 and those probably will NOT be the NEW NEW Delta rates after?
 
No bitching it was voted in so suck up guys, your APA "Leadership" has got this.
 
I thought this infantile and naive $h!t went out the door with ALPA/USAPA?  Guess not.  Guess what boys, its back to infantile, naive and stupid $h!t all over again.
 
Hey APA, what ever happened to that "transparency" view of unionism???  I guess the Obamacare/Gruber guy was the one who put the MOU all together.  What a "Leadership" crock of $h!t.

 

[end_of_alpa]

My Father had a seventh grade education because he had to go to work full time when his father passed away. He worked with his hands his entire life. I paid for my own flying lessons working after school starting when I was sixteen. I was taught to appreciate what you have, that covetousness was a sin, and that nothing in life is guaranteed.
I don't like the offer that management made us because it was disingenuous and had a hook in it. I won't continually whine about the MOU. It moved us off of LOA93 and improved our pay immensely. We will get our parity review in due time. My guess is when we get our Delta/United parity, you will still find plenty to be unhappy about.

Let's all keep this in mind:  it's not how we got the job here or why.  It's what we keep doing to ourselves (ALPA/USAPA/ALPA) that continues to be the gift that keeps on (un)giving.  I am so fed up with the backdoor deals (this DiOreo/Music post PROVES IT) where we keep running on a "dream and a prayer"  negotiating SOP.  The APA is at least as bad as ALPA in keeping with the tried and true principles of "we, the leadership. the great and powerful closed door BOD, know better" so sit down and STFU.
 
IF, and I say IF, the company and the APA come to an agreement it's ONLY because the Company is trying to give the APA some face saving reason for it's viability and "raison d'être" for the next few years by avoiding an arbitration that is so one side in favor of the Company it will pale in comparison to the F/A's.  
 
There is the belief that Parker wants a deal instead of arbitration but I truly believe (and if I were in his shoes I would be doing the same thing) is that by reviewing the DFW Crew News from the other day he is ready for the inevitable.
 
The negotiation committee is "negotiating"  simply to save face from the better contract they got you,
that THEY sold you,
that you all bit off on and
that YOU voted for!
 
The DAY we see true parity with Delta is the when ALPA and the APA merge.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Looks like they're aiming for parity with DAL in the uniform department anyway. I say we go DAL + 33% by having TRIPLE breasted uniform jackets.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Looks like they're aiming for parity with DAL in the uniform department anyway. I say we go DAL + 33% by having TRIPLE breasted uniform jackets.

 
 I think the LAA guys on the uniform committee are looking for something very traditional and military (including high-and-tight haircut...ladies, too.)   Here is their latest proposal to the company:
 

 

[Piedmont1984]

Not bad nyc, but the hat needs to be more durable and weatherproof, as well as projecting an image of authority and savior faire.

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-87491460501412/ludovisi-battle-roman-helmet-1.gif

 

[nevergiveup]

 
 I think the LAA guys on the uniform committee are looking for something very traditional and military (including high-and-tight haircut...ladies, too.)   Here is their latest proposal to the company:
 

Polyester?