2014 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

"Scooter can buy more wigs, tights and tutus on his own dime for a change."
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgjcyH4Ghk
 
 
My sincerest apologies to the minus voting "spartans"....I should reasonably have known that your "army" was all about embracing tights, tutus, purple wigs and all such "diversity". Aw heck.. after all; it just brings 'business casual" to whole new levels anyway. Perhaps I can at least attempt amends by hereby asking management to send all "you'se" in "sparta" a fresh issue of cactus-emblazoned knee pads. Please forgive any previous lack of "sensitivity" on my part.... "You'se" have every right to be properly proud of your management....well...unless "you'se" had ever been cursed with the burden of IQ's above that of average sea sponges, of course.
 
"P.S. I see an immediate minus vote for that. OK, I'll happily challenge the mindless pimple who did so to in ANY way, factually argue against what I posted....? Note the term factually, versus Fantasyland. Let's hear your "reasoned argument" against the many years now of actual observations?...?"
 
 
 
 

 

[A320 Driver]

Cleary did not give one inch when he was in. Not one. And the Nic was defeated as a result of his resolve.
The west hates him because he stopped the Nic.
The company hated him because he did not give in like Beebe and Pollock.
You would still have your pension had he been in as well.

We moved forward not "one inch" during his regime. He tried to compromise on the NIC and Ferguson refused. Since the ADSB made pension termination a requirement for the loan that got us out of bankruptcy, his refusal would have resulted in Chapter 7 and you would be working somewhere else at this point.
Before you elevate this man to sainthood, you might consider that all he really accomplished during his time as USAPA president is make some chest beaters and malcontents feel like they were actually accomplishing something, even when they weren't.

 

[end_of_alpa]

We moved forward not "one inch" during his regime. He tried to compromise on the NIC and Ferguson refused. Since the ADSB made pension termination a requirement for the loan that got us out of bankruptcy, his refusal would have resulted in Chapter 7 and you would be working somewhere else at this point.
Before you elevate this man to sainthood, you might consider that all he really accomplished during his time as USAPA president is make some chest beaters and malcontents feel like they were actually accomplishing something, even when they weren't.

History "correction":  Cleary tried to reason with Ferguson to see if any middle ground could be found and the answer was absolutely not from Ferguson.  Nic or nothing.  Cleary knew it but just wanted to make the offer.  Secondly, Cleary wasn't part of the second BK.  I do not know where he stood on termination or not, I do not believe he was even a committee member at the time although he could have been on the merger committee then.
 
Fast forward to now and I think using the "strong arm" tactics being advocated by some is doomed to failure and another injunction if it gets that far.  Not scared or afraid, just a reality check.

 

[Claxon]

We moved forward not "one inch" during his regime. He tried to compromise on the NIC and Ferguson refused. Since the ADSB made pension termination a requirement for the loan that got us out of bankruptcy, his refusal would have resulted in Chapter 7 and you would be working somewhere else at this point.
Before you elevate this man to sainthood, you might consider that all he really accomplished during his time as USAPA president is make some chest beaters and malcontents feel like they were actually accomplishing something, even when they weren't.

Every east hire from 83 on owes Cleary a round of applause. Especially those who were furloughed. Jack Stephan offered the Nic with a fence that would be down now. There would be no east upgrades to captain save for a few. Thousands of east f/o s would be forever below america west 2004 hires.
Mike Cleary would not budge on the Nic. The company had the east pilots in a headlock called LOA 93. east pilots voted themselves into LOA 93 fully knowing it had no end. Look in the mirror east pilots. You locked yourselves into a profit machine for Parker engineered by Glass. You knew the terms. You are going to do it again. 320 Driver, malcontents? You were a captain who had never been furloughed. Perhaps if you had been furloughed and in MidAtlantic you would have also been a " malcontent"

 

[A320 Driver]

History "correction":  Cleary tried to reason with Ferguson to see if any middle ground could be found and the answer was absolutely not from Ferguson.  Nic or nothing.  Cleary knew it but just wanted to make the offer.  Secondly, Cleary wasn't part of the second BK.  I do not know where he stood on termination or not, I do not believe he was even a committee member at the time although he could have been on the merger committee then.
 
Fast forward to now and I think using the "strong arm" tactics being advocated by some is doomed to failure and another injunction if it gets that far.  Not scared or afraid, just a reality check.

First point well taken. Second point regarded my comments to Claxon's inference that had Cleary been part of the equation on the pension termination, things would have been different which is total BS.
Agree with you that strong arming is not warranted. We haven't even finished negotiating yet and we don't have a clear picture what advantages/disadvantages a JCBA proposal might have.

 

[Claxon]

First point well taken. Second point regarded my comments to Claxon's inference that had Cleary been part of the equation on the pension termination, things would have been different which is total BS.
Agree with you that strong arming is not warranted. He haven't even finished negotiating yet and we don't have a clear picture what advantages/disadvantages a JCBA proposal might have.

Of every group taken into pension termination, east pilots fared the worst.
Parker knows who he is negotiating with, as does Glass. Easy prey.

 

[A320 Driver]

Every east hire from 83 on owes Cleary a round of applause. Especially those who were furloughed. Jack Stephan offered the Nic with a fence that would be down now. There would be no east upgrades to captain save for a few. Thousands of east f/o s would be forever below america west 2004 hires.
Mike Cleary would not budge on the Nic. The company had the east pilots in a headlock called LOA 93. east pilots voted themselves into LOA 93 fully knowing it had no end. Look in the mirror east pilots. You locked yourselves into a profit machine for Parker engineered by Glass. You knew the terms. You are going to do it again. 320 Driver, malcontents? You were a captain who had never been furloughed. Perhaps if you had been furloughed and in MidAtlantic you would have also been a " malcontent"

Since I was hired prior to 83, i am certainly glad I don't "owe" him anything. He told me once that the West would be out of money any day to fight the NIC. He was as wrong about that as he was many things.

 

[A320 Driver]

Of every group taken into pension termination, east pilots fared the worst.
Parker knows who he is negotiating with, as does Glass. Easy prey.

Why are you so quick to judge this pilot group when we don't have any idea where negotiations will take us on the JCBA? Most of the silent majority are waiting to see what happens before they make their minds up.

 

[luvthe9]

We moved forward not "one inch" during his regime. He tried to compromise............,,.

That might be right, but we gave nothing back and like Clax says a lot of people owe their upward movement to him.

 

[luvthe9]

Why are you so quick to judge this pilot group when we don't have any idea where negotiations will take........

You really can't see where this is going? Are you kidding, have you been reading the updates from the APA base reps, I think most of us don't have that warm fuzzy feeling about this.


Like I said before I will support them and lord knows we ( the east group ) have kept this place going and are the reason it still is. I hope they can pull it off, something close to Delta, but not holding my breath.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Another PSA guy who got DOH and only has a couple years left. He wants his money now and forget about everybody  junior to him. Sounds like a Silverman  clone.  

 

[traderjake]

How much has that guy sacrificed to "protect" the junior pilot from the Nicolau Award?
 
You owe him an apology.

 

[AWE Dog]

How much has that guy sacrificed to "protect" the junior pilot from the Nicolau Award?
 
.

How much has a senior west pilot sacrificed by not Accepting Date of Hire?

 

[traderjake]

Give it a rest, Bradford lied to you, we we're never getting DOH. 

 

[AWE Dog]

Give it a rest, Leonidas lied to you, we we're ever getting the Nic.