2014 Pilot Discussion

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Al Legheny said:
The problem is: The arbitration won't get Delta Rates.
The company offer will probably not match the new Delta rates.
The only error in this email is that USAPA both East and West are still under a restraining order from judge Conrad. USAPA attempted to remove it earlier this year but judge Conrad refused and the order still stands.


Demand a Vote and Intellectual Honesty


Fellow pilots,

I want you to know that your Board of Directors has been hard at work the last several months developing a plan and Negotiating strategy that squeezes the absolute maximum we can out of the process in what amounts to a limited box as outlined in the MOU and the JCBA process. Unfortunately, the reality is that we are not in Section 6 negotiations where APA would have more immediate options. The JCBA process was not designed or written as a bridge to an Industry Leading Contract.

Nowhere do the MOU guidelines mandate the company to meet or exceed the DAL contract, does it mandate that the company must give us everything we want because we deserve it as part of the JCBA process or current record profits. The MOU paragraph 27 language is pretty clear and arbitration has a cost-neutral backstop: MOU link

While there are those that want to blow it up now, as well as those that desire a bargained agreement, its my belief that there is more to be gained for our pilot group in a bargained agreement particularly when weighed against the limitations of a cost-neutral arbitration. The APA BOD has directed that bargaining continue and our APA N.O's and Negotiators will continue to send the message of our dissatisfaction with the MOU limitations as we try to button up final items on what will hopefully result in a T.A. for us to send to you for ratification next month.

All of us on the APA BOD agree with you-----our membership deserves more and AAG management would be smart to fully address economic issues from full LOS to Group II/III pay rates, to LTD, etc. They feel that Industry leading PAY on date of signing is generous enoughand we disagree.... Strongly..... Normally, I would not have a problem walking down the arbitration path under such conditions but as paragraph 27 of the MOU points out, this is a backstop of COST NEUTRAL Arbitration. Anyone that thinks that nearly a billion dollars in real compensation for our members is not at stake in arbitration is not informed. Anyone who thinks we can get more in cost neutral arbitration is smoking something illegal (at least in most states). However, a management proposal that only contains pay will not satisfy this pilot group with respect to what they feel they have truly earned and deserve, and a bargained agreement now does not prevent us from expressing that sentiment in the longer term.

APAs new former US Air/ America West Board members have provided us all with further insight and a new perception and storied history of Mr. Parker and Mr. Kirby. To some degree we all have justifiable frustrations and tumultuous pasts with our respective management teams on all sides of the Board table that should not cloud our judgment in making sound, unemotional decisions like this. We also have many newly-elected Board members on the Board that were elected based on promises they made of Compensation and QWL improvements that are simply not achievable within the current MOU/ JCBA language and box we find ourselves in. There is not a mechanism to make it so. FACTS can be difficult to find sometimes amid the politics, and I'm seeing a lot of pent up anger, emotion, and election promises filtering into APA BOD policy and JCBA bargaining decisions.

Some on the Board who earlier promoted "letting the membership decide" when it fit their POLITICAL agendas have now come out and reversed course and are beating their chests and saying "the buck stops here" and "that's why they were elected to make the tough decisions".. thats mighty convenient. These same Board members want you to vote on a contract when it fits their needs or when it looks like you will fall in line with their (membership wide) minority view----but on something as important as nearly a billion bucks out of your pockets----they want to use a division of the house/minority vote at the BOD table" to block your ability to have a say and possibly play chicken and high stakes poker with a stacked deck in arbitration with YOUR money. They will ignore/deny the unpalatable restrictions of the MOU and JCBA process and instead emotionally rally the troops by falsely telling you that we have all this leverage and that you will get more in arbitration and "there's more to be had".Really? By what mechanism? "Shut the #### down?" Ask our US Airways counterparts how that worked-----their permanent TRO was just lifted. (A TRO that Parker tied them up with for years). Following this strategy APA will, at a minimum, be in arbitration and fighting for years to obtain what's on the table now.

The pilots of APA are the key players who leveraged, choreographed and brought us to the merger and now, with an airline that has a bright future, over $100k in potential individual pilot equity, and a JCBA process that is worth up to $1billion + over the life of the contract, we need reason not rhetoric to guide us forward. There is a time to support something and a time to tank something----(and I voted NO on LBFO 1 for the record). The tougher decision right now is to realize the nasty box we are in, be intellectually honest, arrive at decisions by rational thought that attains the most for the members in a very stacked deck box we are in. "Just saying NO" is the easy path here and will provide some with "I demanded Industry Leading" political cover...... I get it.

This isn't Section 6 and there isn't going to be a "Braniff Christmas" here guys------the offer on the table makes you the highest PAID passenger pilots in the industry on date of signing. Good luck with a media campaign in THIS economy saying "we are the highest paid but we didn't get our profit sharing LTD fixed and we have to do back side of the clock landing sims so screw this, we deserve more!!".. (Meanwhile, It took Delta pilots 6 years to attain just surpassing our pre-bankruptcy hourly rates in 2012---yet these guys expect to surpass DAL this year with an across the Board ILC inside ONE year of BK exit?). By what mechanism? Emotion? Because we deserve it? Good luck with that.this is business pure and simple.

Parker is on record saying "I will pay you Delta pay when we make Delta profits"OK, they are.he did not say he would give us Delta pay and Delta profit sharing and a Delta plus up and escalators for the coming raises Delta pilots have----nor did he say he would do it in the JCBA process. Pattern bargaining....hitting singles and doubles.....that is how we will make advancement. Whether you like it or not, and no matter how much you've been promised or think we deserve-----obviously Parker and company have come to the conclusion that paying us DAL rates now is way above what they are mandated to give us in the "second bite at the apple" MOU guidelines and JCBA process. Those are the unarguable facts of the matter.

Look, I'm as pissed as any about the pay amount, I KNOW we deserve more, I dislike the way they have stone-walled us at the table, and I've tried with others through the process to get the QWL improvements pushed through.......I don't like the company "asks" that they demand------"we asked and they said no" is a dead-end business relationship. So now what? What are you going to do about it? Get emotional and abandon the money currently on the table just to "show them"? Go off the reservation? Again, good luck with that. How far up the hill of the unknown are we going to ride with our gray hair flying in the breeze of battle, wearing our pleather flight jackets and riding bareback on our war horses with no real battle plan or mechanism to attain more in an arbitration?

I recommend APAs line pilots demand a VOTE on this JCBA, get educated about the MOU/JCBA process, recognize the box your Board and your negotiators have been operating in, what the company is mandated to do, and what is at stake by letting this fall off the table to an arbitrated decision. Ask yourself if you want to be pissed off with a roughly 18% raise retroactive to Dec. 1st and yearly raises going forward totaling in the neighborhood of $100k more in your pocket over the life of the contract OR get pissed off, emotionally light the joint up and get less in arbitration? Remember. either way you can show your level of enthusiasm yet one way would be sort of "fiscally dumb" and potentially leave your pockets lighter to the tune of up to $1 billion in collective jingle by way of a cost neutral arbitrated award.

While I do try to stay off the "Thunder Dome" these days for the most part, on a recent drive-by I liked a recent post I read on C&R and got a good chuckle----it went something like (a guy calling the company on the phone): "you hear that? I just lit a stick of dynamite!!" -----(effectively blowing himself up on his end of the phone line).

Thank you for the opportunity to serve you during these interesting times. Let's be smart and make decisions without emotion. More to follow and look for upcoming base meetings. Stay engaged, send the Board Soundoffs, and get all the info you can. Please demand a Vote!
Happy Thanksgiving and Fly Safe.
WOW!  Stop the presses.  Do you mean this guy will lose his APA pin?
 
end_of_alpa said:
So, WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?
Everyone should hit the lav for a predeparture pee so they don't wet their pants halfway through the negotiations. It's a long flight.

Arbitration isn't over until it is over, and there is no way DUI will be allowed to actually and fully abandon the cost structure to an arbitrator... But he will never have to.. The pilots will beg for something long before an arbitrator could decide, and I'm afraid long before an arbitrator resume even gets reviewed by the company.
 
nevergiveup said:
2 hrs normal driving time?
What does it really say in the company's request?
 
The company wants its employees to do the job they BID to do and were awarded.  2 hours normal driving time means just that: You must be physically located within a 2 hours drive to your home base.  LUS East pilots have lived with a similar restriction for years, and it works most of the time.  It defines what "in base" means for a short-call reserve.
 
If pilots do not wish to work under that condition, then they should bid a position where they are no on short-call reserve.  If people will simply do the job they are paid to do, this would not be an issue.
 
Let's not play the whining: "Yeah, but I was displaced to reserve" or "My crew base was closed" crap.  You took an airline job knowing full well the ramifications of these possibilities.  This has been the situation for airline pilots since there were airlines.  Work within the full meaning of what it is to be an airline pilot, or go find something else to do. 
 
A320 Driver said:
The process is ongoing. It will be weeks before anything is final for the BOD to look at. As we have just seen, the "final offer" wasn't quite as final as was indicated.
 
The company knows the downside of going to arbitration with the pilots.  Financially, they have nothing to lose, but their credibility in "building the best airline in the world" will go down the tubes for a very, very long time.
 
But, I really don't think the BOD understand the downside for the pilots.  Once in arbitration, the company will come in an place a value/cost (probably inflated) on every little item to be reconciled by the three contracts.  If the arbitrator accepts these values/costs, we could easily end up with an hourly pay rate cut, and quite possibly lose the Delta comparison due on January 1, 2016.  Good cost-neautral luck to us all.
 
Phoenix said:
Who wrote that defeatest white flag? Was it Neil R., the author of the MOU that he says boxes us in now?

Or did Jerry Glass write it and dispatch his water boy to carry it?
 
R,
Todd
 
Todd Hooper
ORD Vice Chairman
(630) 930-9955
ORD-Vice@Alliedpilots.org
 
By playing negotiation footsie Parker,Glass and company just got around Thanksgiving. One of the busiest travel weeks of the year. The footsie will continue till past Christmas. Then he will pull all the chips off the table. (Pun intended) These guys are so predictable.
 
nycbusdriver said:
The company wants its employees to do the job they BID to do and were awarded.  2 hours normal driving time means just that: You must be physically located within a 2 hours drive to your home base.  LUS East pilots have lived with a similar restriction for years, and it works most of the time.  It defines what "in base" means for a short-call reserve.
 
If pilots do not wish to work under that condition, then they should bid a position where they are no on short-call reserve.  If people will simply do the job they are paid to do, this would not be an issue.
 
Let's not play the whining: "Yeah, but I was displaced to reserve" or "My crew base was closed" crap.  You took an airline job knowing full well the ramifications of these possibilities.  This has been the situation for airline pilots since there were airlines.  Work within the full meaning of what it is to be an airline pilot, or go find something else to do.
I could be wrong but I don't recall the words "normal driving time" being preserved. As I recall its changed to a hard time regardless of city, driving conditions, or time of day.. With all 2:01 arrivals being subject to discipline.

It's a concession that doesn't affect you (or me), but we can have the pay raise if we allow concessions on others.

Why are we arguing the value of concessions when the company is making $4B? ..because Jerry Glass kicks ass.
 
At 1:00 am a few nights ago, I had to wait 15 minutes for the bus from the lot to the terminal in PHL. It was over a half hour from the lot to the terminal.
 
luvthe9 said:
Unless they are getting a nice bonus from the company or something else, remember the company excels at managing your expections, we're just getting started.
No need for the company to get involved. We seem to have a couple prima donna "leaders" that feel they need to sing the company chorus instead of keep ranks during negotiations. I don't care what their motivation is.
 
AWE Dog said:
At 1:00 am a few nights ago, I had to wait 15 minutes for the bus from the lot to the terminal in PHL. It was over a half hour from the lot to the terminal.
At ramp shift change you better plan on catching the third or fourth bus, but it's ok. According to DUI we as individuals don't have an impact on daily profits.

DUI says it's ok to be late but he has instructed the chief pilots to give you two weeks unpaid vacation if you show at 2:15.

When Jerry Glass pulls this off the table like he did scope, he will be a hero.
 
AWEdog, I was thinking the same thing. Play nice till Jan and then tell us to pound sand. There is no doubt in my mind this will take place. Anybody who would want this proposal must only have a few years left.   
 
Hawkhunter said:
AWEdog, I was thinking the same thing. Play nice till Jan and then tell us to pound sand. There is no doubt in my mind this will take place. Anybody who would want this proposal must only have a few years left.
That's how Glass splits the group up, he knows the top 500 east pilots will take anything with some money in it and mind as well throw in some concessions. 14,000 pi$$ed off pilots in January, Who Cares?? They will placate the negotiating committee until January 2 , then file for cost neutral arbitration.
 
AWE Dog said:
...... 14,000 pi$$ed off pilots in January, Who Cares?? They will placate the negotiating committee until January 2 , then file for cost neutral arbitration.
 
My guess as well. I think this is purely a 100% "Glass house" scam to keep things going along rock-free during the busiest travel time of the year.
 
"14,000 pi$$ed off pilots in January, Who Cares??" Not management, that's for sure. Anyone imagining otherwise is doing just that...imagining.
 
They hook-lined-and-sinkered everyone in with the MOU, and anyone who fantasized that they'd be the least bit interested in seriously negotiating away from that was just kidding themselves. Record profits and we're being presented with further concessions?..Of ANY sort? "Doug"...Are you frikkin' kidding us all?
 
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