2014 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

Easy

Ucrapa is like a little brat who would not shut up so the APA gave a shovel to the kid to go bury himself in the sandbox.

 
It more seems the case that both "Ucrapa" and the APA handed "you'se" a shovel...unless we've all just missed the memo about the APA's plans for exhalting those little brats out in the PHX sandbox. Why haven't they at the very least announced their firm plans for establishing a west seat yet? Why was even that shuffled, by mutal agreement with USAPA, off to arbitration? They couldn't possibly have done that just to keep their hands a bit cleaner here, right? That seems a "surprising" move though, I mean, after all; aren't the APA "you'se" BFF and staunchest allies? Since, in west estimation; the APA's now all powerful, and they so dearly love the west and loathe the east...well...why haven't they simply, by imperical decree, established a seat for "you'se" at the table? Give it time kid. "You'se" will eventually figure things out...or perhaps you never will.
 
"You'se" mighty "spartans" just might want to practice and refine your deer-in-the-headlights expression for future use here.

 

[snapthis]

Leonidas Update September 22, 2014
Tuesday, September 16, 2014, USAPA was terminated as the Collective Bargaining Agent (CBA) for the US Airways pilots West and East, and the APA was certified as the exclusive bargaining agent for all New American pilots. Within hours of this announcement, USAPA filed yet another lawsuit (click here) against West pilots and in particular, Roger Velez who was officially served on Saturday.

USAPA left the world of certified collective bargaining agents exactly as it arrived - by filing a lawsuit against West Pilots. This is the fifth time USAPA has brought a lawsuit against West pilots in a little over six years. In May of 2008, less than six weeks after it was certified by the NMB, USAPA sued 24 named West pilots and 100 John/Jane Doe West pilots under the Federal RICO statute (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act). This lawsuit was promptly dismissed with prejudice. Undeterred, USAPA then appealed and the dismissal ruling was upheld. Subsequently, USAPA initiated another lawsuit (accompanied by a smear and misinformation campaign) against three West pilots for alleged identity theft. This lawsuit (and related efforts to have any and every state Attorney Generals take action on USAPA's behalf) did not progress, as the allegations were clearly baseless and aimed at illegally silencing dissent within USAPA. Later, USAPA filed another lawsuit in Americans bankruptcy court in an attempt to stop West pilots from pursing their seniority rights. This lawsuit was promptly dismissed as well. Now, USAPA has expressly named Roger Velez, the Certified West Pilot class, and Leonidas, LLC in another lawsuit asking the court to determine USAPAs responsibility for dues disgorgement to all USAPA Members.

It seems as though USAPA holds strong animus towards Roger in addition to others who would stand up to it, like Eric Ferguson. Roger has been directly named in two of the five suits so far, and Eric has been named directly or implicitly in all of USAPA's lawsuits. Eric and Roger, among many others, have been selfless pilot advocates for a number of years while standing up for West pilots' rights in many different areas including plaintiff class representative, domicile vice-chairman, and most recently, both have been named members of the pending West Merger Committee. Just a few days before USAPA became the former bargaining agent (FBA), Roger sent a demand letter (click here) to the FBA's officers. This letter was written on behalf of ALL US Airways pilots seeking our rightful refund of dues. For some reason, this time USAPA chose to sue only Roger by name and Eric as a manager of Leonidas LLC. Lets not forget for a second that the sole reason for the formation of USAPA was to abrogate the Nicolau Award (Addington vs. USAPA I, Exhibit 14). It begs the question that most everyone will quickly realize: Are Roger and Eric being targeted by USAPA in its continued quest to abrogate the Nicolau Award so it can replace it with the Easts own extreme and unyielding seniority list? This is the obvious conclusion to be drawn from the FBAs action.

Lets face some facts here and now: As of last Tuesday morning, all US Airways pilots are represented exclusively by the Allied Pilots Association. It is clear the USAPA officers are confused and/or delusional as to their rights, duties, obligations and limitations as they have already clearly exceeded any authority they might have to act on behalf of their members. Current USAPA officer (and USAPA founder) Stephen Bradford again wasted no time squandering money by suing former America West pilots and using our own money against us. The officers must be keenly aware that they would be unable to raise funds for such a purpose (unlike the West pilots robust voluntary fundraising), forcing them to take the risky move of using funds they have no clear and ongoing right to use to for their own nefarious purposes. Remember, USAPA obtained its treasury surplus while acting as the legal administrator of US Airways pilots under Section 29 (Union Security Clause) of both contracts. What zealot believes he could then convert these compulsory dues for voluntary purposes unrelated to collective bargaining and contract enforcement on behalf of the members? We wonder how long APA will stand by and allow one subset of its membership to sue another subset. Say it isnt so, but that sure looks like dual unionism and has the potential of creating a DFR violation for APA.

The latest lawsuit is, without question, the continuation of Bradford's deep-seated hostility toward the AWA pilots and yet another attack on the alternate dispute resolution (ADR) process. This was the very reason for USAPAs creation and remains the very reason for its continued existence. Now as a FBA, USAPA is again aiming to stop the Nicolau Award by using monies it received from all US Airways pilots by way of collecting compulsory dues to harass West pilots and limit our ability to prosecute our legal rights. It's the same as it ever was, but we believe the realization that USAPA's Officers now lack any protection under the RLA will catch up with them harshly. USAPA's long history of being hostile to a number of arbitrators and judges when a decision didnt comport with their overly-ambitious and unrealistic expectations will likewise come back to haunt them some day soon too. The former CBAs arbitration track record includes recently suing an arbitrator in Federal Court to vacate a decision. Dismissal was the predictable outcome of that lawsuit which did nothing to help USAPA's abysmal reputation among the small community of arbitrators. Likewise, USAPA and many East pilots accused Judge Wake of bias and George Nicolau of being old and senile!

Whether a particular pilot, or group of pilots, likes or dislikes an arbitrators award is really irrelevant. Once two parties agree that an arbitration is to occur, the resulting decision is sacrosanct. USAPA's biggest supporters now fear, more than anything else, the APA doing to it what it has sought to do to West pilots all along. Fortunately for them, West pilots haven't caved to their bullying and harassment so Bradford's perverse theory of changing the name of your bargaining agent to evade the result of an arbitration remains unproven. This is exactly why Rogers ongoing advocacy for a particular arbitration (with the unwavering support of all AWA pilots) is the penultimate example of being good union pilots. We are protecting the arbitration process now, and into the future. The former bargaining agent has been acting to destroy the sanctity of arbitration for all union members (and labor as a whole), not enhancing arbitration as they should have.

This lawsuit, like all the other USAPA lawsuits, is designed to specifically stop West pilots from pursuing their arbitrated seniority rights, and to intimidate and oppress West pilots into giving up their rights, as well as to deplete the West pilots finances via ongoing litigation fees and expenses. It hasn't worked before, and it won't work now. It's just another example of poor judgment and wishful thinking on their part and it is our expectation that it will make for a redoubling of commitment from West pilots to see justice prevail.

Is USAPA attacking Roger because he has volunteered to be a member of the West Merger Committee? Appointing a West merger committee is an obligation that APA asserts is their right and responsibility as the exclusive bargaining agent to provide the fair seniority integration process required by McCaskill-Bond (M/B), a fair seniority process USAPA has always opposed since its inception. Now, USAPA seeks to interfere with APAs duty to fairly represent all pilots by undermining the ability of a West Merger Committee to adequately represent the West pilots in a preliminary arbitration and subsequent SLI arbitration.

While all of this is going on, the SLI process is moving forward. Last Thursday, USAPA and APA announced the arbitrator selection for the SLI. Dana Eischen, Ira Jaffe, and M. David Vaughn. On Wednesday, September 24, 2014, the selection of arbitrators by USAPA and APA for the Preliminary Arbitration is expected to be announced.

Regarding the current lawsuit, our attorneys are reviewing USAPAs DJ filing and will ensure the best course of action and most effective response. In the meantime, it is recommended that no one makes any changes regarding USAPA membership and that we remain focused on the Preliminary Arbitration.

All this activity requires continued funding for the attorneys and the West Merger Committee in preparation for the M/B arbitration. Continued contributions are essential to this effort. While we hope for some funding assistance one day, the other parties have made it clear that West pilots are on our own financially for the foreseeable future. We are participants in a process that was forced upon us which purports to be fair and equitable despite the other parties awareness of the disparate facts outlined herein.

Thank you for your ongoing support. We will succeed so long as we do not waiver or quit.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

 

[EastUS1]

Leonidas Update September 22, 2014

While all of this is going on, the SLI process is moving forward. Last Thursday, USAPA and APA announced the arbitrator selection for the SLI. Dana Eischen, Ira Jaffe, and M. David Vaughn. On Wednesday, September 24, 2014, the selection of arbitrators by USAPA and APA for the Preliminary Arbitration is expected to be announced.

All this activity requires continued funding for the attorneys and the West Merger Committee in preparation for the M/B arbitration.

 
A brief intelligence test is offered here. Which of these is different and doesn't belong with the others?
 
USAPA and APA announced the arbitrator selection for the SLI, or "the West merger Committee?
 
"All this activity requires continued funding..." And here we've never heard anything but how rich "you'se" coffers are.

 

[Claxon]

 

Leonidas Update April 19, 2009
on

19 April 2009
.

 
This will be a shorter update than normal and we will not be able to cover the scope of material relevant to our trial. We apologize for this, but our manpower is simply overloaded at this point as we enter the final hours before the gavel falls next Tuesday. We will briefly discuss where we are at in the litigation, but the focus of this update will be on atte nding the trial.
 
 
First, we have a final Pre-Trial conference on Tuesday, April 21st. This is a significant hearing as Judge Wake will likely issue the final rules pertaining to juror questioning, jury instructions, and inclusion or exclusion of evidence, exhibits, and witnesses. These rulings are the legal equivalent to the rules of engagement in a military operation; boundaries are defined as to what substantive arguments are relevant. This legal footprint is what is used to define the playing field and thus keep the attorneys within bounds. Anything not within the boundaries as defined by the Court is subject to a relevance objection.
 
Now as to those who would like to attend the trial, you should know that there is limited seating space in Court Room 504. There is perhaps room for 50 or so observers, but we are working with the Court to make listening rooms available as an overflow as we expect a lot more pilots to show up than 50. Although sitting in the actual court room might sound appealing, we would like to underscore the benefits of sitting in the observation room. First, sitting in the Court could be rather solemn and constricting: there can be no conversation, no cell phones . . . and definitely no reaction to what the other side is saying. Also, please understand that sitting in the court means that you will be watched constantly by the 8-12 Arizonians sitting in the jury box, and it is those Arizonians who will basically control the rest of your career. Second, we are going to ask that those who want to sit in Court to wear business attire; a sport coat and tie is the minimum. We will not tell you not to wear your uniform, but our opinion is that a uniform is not the proper attire. We are going to court because of an injustice; our occupation is irrelevant. Nothing really needs to be said other than we are American citizens exercising our right to be heard before a tribunal and we are entrusting our careers to the sound judgment of a jury. That is the way our system works and it because of this system that our country works far better than anywhere else. Therefore, our recommendation is to just keep it simple and to appear in a nice sport coat or a suit. Finally and above all else, we insist that every observer in the court room else, we insist that every observer in the court room maintain a solemnity. Do not underestimate the difficulty in doing this as observing the antics and the arguments from the other side is going to be taxing for any West pilot. This is probably the end game for a regime that has no conscience, a never ending supply of hubris, and no limits when it comes to deception. They have no substantive defense to their actions, so you can anticipate that the crux of their defense will be to argue mistruths. If you understand this and nevertheless decide to sit in the court room, then those observers will have to show up with their "poker faces." After weighing the two options - observation room or court - the observation room seems quite attractive as far as we are concerned. However, if you are really dying to sit in the actual court room during trial, then all we ask is that you consider our observations. Also, the location of the trial is the same place as all of the prior hearings have taken place: Room 504 of the Sandra Day O' Connor Federal Court House in downtown Phoenix. The trial starts at 9AM sharp on Tuesday, April 28th and will run through May 8th.
 
Finally, we would ask that our supporters continue to reach out to West pilots who have yet to contribute to this cause. The time is drawing near where this seniority fight will be over and whether we win or lose, those pilots who have not helped this cause will have to live with that. 60% of you have contributed their fair share or more, 15-20% have contributed something, and the balance have contributed little to nothing. It is incomprehensible to us how that last group can go to work every week knowing that that 2 out of 3 of their fellow pilots are carrying the entire burden of defending the career of every West pilot, including their own. The lowest paid pilot in the West makes $70,000 a year. 1% of that is $700. So if you haven't contributed so far, then what on Earth are you waiting for?
 
We will update again when/if we find time later this week. Thanks for your continued support. Hang tough - the end is in sight.
 
Sincerely ,
 
Leonidas, LLC

 

[EastCheats]

Idiots to the end......Dismissed......with prejudice.....once again

 

[EastCheats]

Checks are in the mail!

Actually not, there has been a dues holiday. Good luck trying to collect

 

[end_of_alpa]

Leonidas Update September 22, 2014
Tuesday, September 16, 2014, USAPA was terminated as the Collective Bargaining Agent (CBA) for the US Airways pilots West and East, and the APA was certified as the exclusive bargaining agent for all New American pilots. Within hours of this announcement, USAPA filed yet another lawsuit (click here) against West pilots and in particular, Roger Velez who was officially served on Saturday.

USAPA left the world of certified collective bargaining agents exactly as it arrived - by filing a lawsuit against West Pilots. This is the fifth time USAPA has brought a lawsuit against West pilots in a little over six years. In May of 2008, less than six weeks after it was certified by the NMB, USAPA sued 24 named West pilots and 100 John/Jane Doe West pilots under the Federal RICO statute (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act). This lawsuit was promptly dismissed with prejudice. Undeterred, USAPA then appealed and the dismissal ruling was upheld. Subsequently, USAPA initiated another lawsuit (accompanied by a smear and misinformation campaign) against three West pilots for alleged identity theft. This lawsuit (and related efforts to have any and every state Attorney Generals take action on USAPA's behalf) did not progress, as the allegations were clearly baseless and aimed at illegally silencing dissent within USAPA. Later, USAPA filed another lawsuit in Americans bankruptcy court in an attempt to stop West pilots from pursing their seniority rights. This lawsuit was promptly dismissed as well. Now, USAPA has expressly named Roger Velez, the Certified West Pilot class, and Leonidas, LLC in another lawsuit asking the court to determine USAPAs responsibility for dues disgorgement to all USAPA Members.

It seems as though USAPA holds strong animus towards Roger in addition to others who would stand up to it, like Eric Ferguson. Roger has been directly named in two of the five suits so far, and Eric has been named directly or implicitly in all of USAPA's lawsuits. Eric and Roger, among many others, have been selfless pilot advocates for a number of years while standing up for West pilots' rights in many different areas including plaintiff class representative, domicile vice-chairman, and most recently, both have been named members of the pending West Merger Committee. Just a few days before USAPA became the former bargaining agent (FBA), Roger sent a demand letter (click here) to the FBA's officers. This letter was written on behalf of ALL US Airways pilots seeking our rightful refund of dues. For some reason, this time USAPA chose to sue only Roger by name and Eric as a manager of Leonidas LLC. Lets not forget for a second that the sole reason for the formation of USAPA was to abrogate the Nicolau Award (Addington vs. USAPA I, Exhibit 14). It begs the question that most everyone will quickly realize: Are Roger and Eric being targeted by USAPA in its continued quest to abrogate the Nicolau Award so it can replace it with the Easts own extreme and unyielding seniority list? This is the obvious conclusion to be drawn from the FBAs action.

Lets face some facts here and now: As of last Tuesday morning, all US Airways pilots are represented exclusively by the Allied Pilots Association. It is clear the USAPA officers are confused and/or delusional as to their rights, duties, obligations and limitations as they have already clearly exceeded any authority they might have to act on behalf of their members. Current USAPA officer (and USAPA founder) Stephen Bradford again wasted no time squandering money by suing former America West pilots and using our own money against us. The officers must be keenly aware that they would be unable to raise funds for such a purpose (unlike the West pilots robust voluntary fundraising), forcing them to take the risky move of using funds they have no clear and ongoing right to use to for their own nefarious purposes. Remember, USAPA obtained its treasury surplus while acting as the legal administrator of US Airways pilots under Section 29 (Union Security Clause) of both contracts. What zealot believes he could then convert these compulsory dues for voluntary purposes unrelated to collective bargaining and contract enforcement on behalf of the members? We wonder how long APA will stand by and allow one subset of its membership to sue another subset. Say it isnt so, but that sure looks like dual unionism and has the potential of creating a DFR violation for APA.

The latest lawsuit is, without question, the continuation of Bradford's deep-seated hostility toward the AWA pilots and yet another attack on the alternate dispute resolution (ADR) process. This was the very reason for USAPAs creation and remains the very reason for its continued existence. Now as a FBA, USAPA is again aiming to stop the Nicolau Award by using monies it received from all US Airways pilots by way of collecting compulsory dues to harass West pilots and limit our ability to prosecute our legal rights. It's the same as it ever was, but we believe the realization that USAPA's Officers now lack any protection under the RLA will catch up with them harshly. USAPA's long history of being hostile to a number of arbitrators and judges when a decision didnt comport with their overly-ambitious and unrealistic expectations will likewise come back to haunt them some day soon too. The former CBAs arbitration track record includes recently suing an arbitrator in Federal Court to vacate a decision. Dismissal was the predictable outcome of that lawsuit which did nothing to help USAPA's abysmal reputation among the small community of arbitrators. Likewise, USAPA and many East pilots accused Judge Wake of bias and George Nicolau of being old and senile!

Whether a particular pilot, or group of pilots, likes or dislikes an arbitrators award is really irrelevant. Once two parties agree that an arbitration is to occur, the resulting decision is sacrosanct. USAPA's biggest supporters now fear, more than anything else, the APA doing to it what it has sought to do to West pilots all along. Fortunately for them, West pilots haven't caved to their bullying and harassment so Bradford's perverse theory of changing the name of your bargaining agent to evade the result of an arbitration remains unproven. This is exactly why Rogers ongoing advocacy for a particular arbitration (with the unwavering support of all AWA pilots) is the penultimate example of being good union pilots. We are protecting the arbitration process now, and into the future. The former bargaining agent has been acting to destroy the sanctity of arbitration for all union members (and labor as a whole), not enhancing arbitration as they should have.

This lawsuit, like all the other USAPA lawsuits, is designed to specifically stop West pilots from pursuing their arbitrated seniority rights, and to intimidate and oppress West pilots into giving up their rights, as well as to deplete the West pilots finances via ongoing litigation fees and expenses. It hasn't worked before, and it won't work now. It's just another example of poor judgment and wishful thinking on their part and it is our expectation that it will make for a redoubling of commitment from West pilots to see justice prevail.

Is USAPA attacking Roger because he has volunteered to be a member of the West Merger Committee? Appointing a West merger committee is an obligation that APA asserts is their right and responsibility as the exclusive bargaining agent to provide the fair seniority integration process required by McCaskill-Bond (M/B), a fair seniority process USAPA has always opposed since its inception. Now, USAPA seeks to interfere with APAs duty to fairly represent all pilots by undermining the ability of a West Merger Committee to adequately represent the West pilots in a preliminary arbitration and subsequent SLI arbitration.

While all of this is going on, the SLI process is moving forward. Last Thursday, USAPA and APA announced the arbitrator selection for the SLI. Dana Eischen, Ira Jaffe, and M. David Vaughn. On Wednesday, September 24, 2014, the selection of arbitrators by USAPA and APA for the Preliminary Arbitration is expected to be announced.

Regarding the current lawsuit, our attorneys are reviewing USAPAs DJ filing and will ensure the best course of action and most effective response. In the meantime, it is recommended that no one makes any changes regarding USAPA membership and that we remain focused on the Preliminary Arbitration.

All this activity requires continued funding for the attorneys and the West Merger Committee in preparation for the M/B arbitration. Continued contributions are essential to this effort. While we hope for some funding assistance one day, the other parties have made it clear that West pilots are on our own financially for the foreseeable future. We are participants in a process that was forced upon us which purports to be fair and equitable despite the other parties awareness of the disparate facts outlined herein.

Thank you for your ongoing support. We will succeed so long as we do not waiver or quit.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

It now looks like ALL former US Airways pilots will not see one nickel of cash returned to them because of the relentless threats from the few like Roger and Eric continue to make.  They are NOT naive.  They are not ignorant.  They are zealots, pure and simple. The law doesn't support their positions and they continue to threaten everyone if they don't get their way. The seniority battle is over for all but them and their ilk.  The few here will continue to advocate for zealotry but the hard truth of reality is well beyond their grasp.  They blame everyone but the real persons in their mirrors crying "foul".....Roger, Eric, Jeff, Dave and the others.  
 
No one from the east (maybe except for Dan) is joining the West in their relentless and futile attempt to fold USAPA.  
 
I know what their answer is.....GOOD LUCK and see you in court.

 

[Phoenix]

The West lawyers earned millions because the West pilots had no idea what "implicit assumption" means.

Will the West lawyers now make another couple million because the West pilots have no idea what "undisputed status quo" means?

Show me a pilot with a Liberty Necktie... and I'll show you a pilot that should have bought a dictionary.

 

[Phoenix]

It now looks like ALL former US Airways pilots will not see one nickel of cash returned to them because of the relentless threats from the few like Roger and Eric continue to make.  They are NOT naive.  They are not ignorant.  They are zealots, pure and simple. The law doesn't support their positions and they continue to threaten everyone if they don't get their way. The seniority battle is over for all but them and their ilk.  The few here will continue to advocate for zealotry but the hard truth of reality is well beyond their grasp.  They blame everyone but the real persons crying "foul".....themselves.  No one from the east (maybe except for Dan) is joining the West in their relentless and futile attempt to fold USAPA.  I know what their answer is.....GOOD LUCK and see you in court.

The West will swim in an ocean of legal briefs for as long as they are willing to pay for the futility.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Leonidas Update September 22, 2014
Tuesday, September 16, 2014, USAPA was terminated as the Collective Bargaining Agent (CBA) for the US Airways pilots West and East, and the APA was certified as the exclusive bargaining agent for all New American pilots. Within hours of this announcement, USAPA filed yet another lawsuit (click here) against West pilots and in particular, Roger Velez who was officially served on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

Validation of service.  Be prepared to come to North Carolina and be prepared to PAY!  More money from the West pilots pockets.  
 
Merry Christmas, Baby!

 

[end_of_alpa]

The West will swim in an ocean of legal briefs for as long as they are willing to pay for the futility.

There it is.  And I have already did my own legal research into their "claims".  
 
Answer:  You're better off collecting rocks off the surface of MARS!

 

[CactusPilot1]

The West will swim in an ocean of legal briefs for as long as they are willing to pay for the futility.

Run yourselves out of money for all I care. Suing Roger backfired already with more pledges of donations. Thanks for the spike in contributions. Well done!

 

[Freighterguynow]

Easy
Ucrapa is like a little brat who would not shut up so the APA gave a shovel to the kid to go bury himself in the sandbox.

Really ? I think we are all a little dumber for reading that.

 

[Phoenix]

Run yourselves out of money for all I care. Suing Roger backfired already with more pledges of donations. Thanks for the spike in contributions. Well done!

 
 
Yippee.  You can afford to swim in the ocean of futility for a long time.  But you can never buy an alternative status quo.  The status quo is already established by contract and is not in dispute.  
 
Don't stress too much.  It will not go DOH.  And by relative position Save Dave will be very junior, but will at least be senior to the pilots hired since Dec 2013.  

 

[Freighterguynow]

A few people better be doing their homework. Sept 23-24 is approaching fast. .

Sept 23 what is the significance of that now ?