2014 Pilot Discussion

[Crzipilot]

If I have read the PA correctly,   even if the West wins the pre arbitration to have their own merger comm,    the PA basically says that everyone,  including if they get their seat,  that the seniority lists in effect are the ones in effect Dec9.....that the NIC can not be brought up?

 

[Claxon]

"Reflections of a west pilot" video.  eric auxier pretends it is the year 2045.  eric talks about being the veteran of a war vs the East pilots. 
 
The video was produced by the west pilots. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUuy3o0Qb7E

 

[EastUS1]

"Reflections of a west pilot" video.  eric auxier pretends it is the year 2045.  eric talks about being the veteran of a war vs the East pilots. 
 
The video was produced by the west pilots. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUuy3o0Qb7E

 
Wow! "A surviving veteran...who fought with the army of leonidas in the great...war." Seriously? Sigh!...Grow up kiddies/'capn' aux" and all such pathetic like. In fairness; I didn't make it past 30 seconds into that masterpiece. It's almost enough to induce nausea, and not from any east-west perspective. Arrested development doesn't even begin to adequately address here. What a completely disgusting embarrassment to the entire aviation community, if not the very human race...Period.
 
A suggested link for any eligible and undoubtedly heroic "spartans" who wish to become a "veteran" ("surviving" isn't guaranteed though) and fight as part of an Army in war: http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs.html
 
P.S. Don't hesitate to flash them a "patriotic liberty tie" to perhaps gain admission even if an age waiver's needed.

 

[end_of_alpa]

16. The integrated seniority list resulting from the process established by the MOU and this Protocol Agreement shall be implemented under the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement as soon as operationally feasible following the Protocol Agreement, Tentative Agreement date the final award is issued or the date the FAA issues a single operating certificate covering the carriers, whichever is later. Upon receipt of the final award, the Company will promptly meet with the APA and the Merger Committees to discuss the process and timing for implementation of the final award. After these discussions occur, if a dispute arises regarding whether the Company’s implementation of the final award meets the “as soon as operationally feasible” standard set forth herein, such dispute may be submitted to the Board of Arbitration for resolution.

They removed it because of redundancy.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

If I have read the PA correctly,   even if the West wins the pre arbitration to have their own merger comm,    the PA basically says that everyone,  including if they get their seat,  that the seniority lists in effect are the ones in effect Dec9.....that the NIC can not be brought up?

It was an affirmation and agreement by the signatories which included New American that the status quo is three lists, no Nic.

 

[flyer63]

So the west was wrong. We do get a do over. Counter to their claims of. "You will never get a do over."...they dont get to screw us just because we were in a bad spot because of 911

 

[Piedmont1984]

end

They removed it because of vague language, specifically 'operationally feasable'. They did not want the company to drag out implementation.

So now the rules of engagement are established. Even if the PA had been rejected and we won our litigation in D.C., the APA could have unilaterally raised the issue of the Nic at arbitration, or, the board of arbitrators could have raised it themselves.

Let the west committee have their 15 minutes. Status quo as of 9 Dec 2013 means we will be integrating 3 separate pilot groups with a snapshot on or about that date; not 2 pilot groups back in 2005 which, due to a lack of JCBA could never be implemented. This integration will comply with federal statue (MB), not ALPA merger policy from the last decade which was flawed to begin with, modified since, and whose windfall provision was violated in the award known as Nic II.

IOW, if they wish to go back to 2005, then that goes for AA pilots as well. Does that mean we have a claim on the 777s? Absurd.

'84

 

[Claxon]

September 4, 2014
West Pilots Class Rep Update
As we are certain you know, mediated negotiations called for by the NMB to achieve a SLI Process Agreement have been ongoing between APA, New American, and USAPA in Washington, D.C. since August 5. Noticeably absent in the process has been any representative advocating for the unique interests of the West pilots.
Today, the USAPA BPR, over the objections of the Phoenix Reps, ratified the tentative agreement resulting from those mediated negotiations, subject to reaching modification of the Agreement with APA and the Company on one matter not related to our principal issue: the status of a Committee representing West pilots. We assume that the parties will resolve that issue, one way or another, in relatively short order. If so, more details about the Agreement will surely appear in the days ahead.
By the terms of the Agreement it is plainly evident that USAPA has once again demonstrated that they only intend to represent East US Airways pilot seniority interests. One only has to read the inaccurate and inflammatory September 3, 2014 USAPA Merger Committee update , and compare that with the actual language of the Protocol Agreement to understand the depth USAPA will go to deny West representation in the coming SLI. The West pilots must be afforded the same status, rights, and privileges as the other two pilot groups specified in the MOU. This was one of the key factors leading to our support of the MOU and merger with American Airlines in the first place.
APA has made it clear through its public statements that they believe that a West Merger Committee must be appointed. We trust that APA, unlike USAPA, recognizes that no seniority integration process that excludes the West pilots and puts our fate in USAPA's hands exclusively will ever be considered a fair process by us, given USAPA's historic and proven animus to our interests. We assume that APA will support the appointment of a West Committee in the Preliminary Arbitration called for by the Agreement and hope the Company will as well. Nevertheless, we must stand vigilant and ready to represent ourselves, with legal counsel of our own choosing, in the upcoming seniority proceedings. To that end your Certified West Pilot Class Representatives are reaffirming our support of the "West Merger Committee" augmented by the legal team of Jeff Freund and Marty Harper. When USAPA is finally decertified, it will no longer have any representational status under the RLA. At that point in time, USAPA becomes just a private, unincorporated association bound by the laws of the State of North Carolina. Period. We look forward to working constructively with APA once it becomes the certified bargaining agent and takes on the responsibility of insuring a fair seniority integration process for all of its members: old American, East and West pilots. We will continue to prepare for that day as it rapidly approaches.
The unexpected delays at the NMB, USAPA's DC lawsuit along with the MOU requirement to present a final list to the company no later than December 9th, 2015 have compressed our time line. Having been cut out of the process, should a West Committee gain standing to participate (as we expect), this Committee will be required to make up for lost time. We will be forced to accomplish in a matter of weeks what the other committees have had many months to prepare. The need for manpower to assist became evident, and after careful consideration, we have added Jeff O'Connell, Mitch Vasin, Jim Van Sickle and West Class Representatives Mark Burman and Roger Velez to the merger team. We strongly believe this newly expanded team will be representative of every pilot in our West group and can effectively meet the challenges that lie ahead.
The West Merger Committee will consist of the following nine west pilots:
Russ Payne
Eric Ferguson
Johan de Vicq
David Braid
Jeff O'Connell
Mitch Vasin
Jim Van Sickle
Mark Burman
Roger Velez
This has been the virtuous cause backed by West unity, which has so far stopped USAPA's unjust plan to substitute its own self-serving seniority list in place of the Nicolau Award. Had West pilots not stood our ground, USAPA's injustice would have prevailed long ago and there would be no ongoing dispute regarding West participation between the parties today. Your career would be facing a high likelihood of suffering a compounding injury in this new merger. Instead we are poised to finally enforce the prior arbitration in the context of this new merger and prevent additional losses beyond what we have endured at the hands of USAPA. We will continue our vigilance against those who would silence West representation. Every legal option will be exercised to protect West Pilot seniority.
It is our realistic expectation, given our unprecedented solidarity that has been demonstrated over many years of hardship, that all West pilots will support their West Class Representatives and remain unified behind the West Merger Committee.
Sincerely,
Your West Class Representatives, USAPA Phoenix BPR Representatives, West Merger Committee, LLC Managers and Members:
Don Addington
John Bostic
Mark Burman
Steve Wargocki
AC Iranpour
Rod Brackin
Michael Soha
George Maliga
Roger Velez

Before the west pilots are led into another legal debacle, a few questions to Snap. Snap, you vanished days before the latest Nicolau repudiation, so you got early word.
Do the west pilots even know of the meeting in Texas between Ferguson and Cleary? Where mediation was attempted with Pataki and George Mitchell and Abner Mivka? Where Ferguson again insisted on the Nicolau? How about the meeting in St. Louis with John Prater?
Do east pilots even realize how many attempts were made to compromise?
Now Ferguson and Harper are going to attempt to go against William Wilder in committee form. Surely Ferguson and Harper will make another attempt at the Nicolau. Wilder will be ready and able to counter them. west pilots, are you honestly going to go to war with a neophyte attorney such as Ferguson? Harper is also not up to it.
Harper is going to ask a panel of arbitrators to go where even Judge Silver would not, a seat.
Sit back, and watch. All the money from those idiotic ties is going up in smoke.
Ferguson should be meeting with Hummel to work out a combined list with the east, but It appears to be too late.

 

[Metroyet]

If I have read the PA correctly,   even if the West wins the pre arbitration to have their own merger comm,    the PA basically says that everyone,  including if they get their seat,  that the seniority lists in effect are the ones in effect Dec9.....that the NIC can not be brought up?

Nope. All wrong. The Nic is very much alive. Hence all the fighting to keep the West out of the process. Your fake union lies to your face. Haven't learned that yet?

 

[Pi brat]

Nope. All wrong. The Nic is very much alive. Hence all the fighting to keep the West out of the process. Your fake union lies to your face. Haven't learned that yet?

It's still hanging on, that's for sure. All the panel has to do is ignore a federal judges ruling, and you haven't been wrong yet.

 

[Claxon]

Nope. All wrong. The Nic is very much alive. Hence all the fighting to keep the West out of the process. Your fake union lies to your face. Haven't learned that yet?

Kevin, everyone has read the terms about the Nic. Fitting that a founder of Leonidas would continue to lie to deceive its members. You have no conscience. You are the reason Leonidas is a rogue and failed entity.

 

[Claxon]

Kevin Horner has held positions on the TWA list, American list And USAirways list. Kevin will do what is best for Kevin. Irregardless of the harm it has caused west pilots.

 

[Metroyet]

It's still hanging on, that's for sure. All the panel has to do is ignore a federal judges ruling, and you haven't been wrong yet.

A federal judge banned the use of the Nic? A list derived from due process to which everyone agreed to be final and binding? HA!!! You guys never understood what DFR actually is. The APA clearly does much to your obvious dissatisfaction. I think you'll be lucky to get through this with just the Nic award. Best of luck talking out of both sides of your mouth to the arb panels.

 

[Pi brat]

A federal judge banned the use of the Nic? A list derived from due process to which everyone agreed to be final and binding? HA!!! You guys never understood what DFR actually is. The APA clearly does much to your obvious dissatisfaction. I think you'll be lucky to get through this with just the Nic award. Best of luck talking out of both sides of your mouth to the arb panels.

No, a federal judge said that the west had no right to separate representation. That's where the Nic's last life stands, with the panel that will decide if there is a west merger committee. At least as I understand it, I will admit that I have been and could be wrong.
 
YOUR side said that the contract we all agreed to abandoned the Nic, and the same judge said that the abandonment wasn't a failure of USAPA's DFR. So how do you use what was abandoned?
 
Try to keep up, will you?

 

[Metroyet]

Kevin Horner has held positions on the TWA list, American list And USAirways list. Kevin will do what is best for Kevin. Irregardless of the harm it has caused west pilots.

Kevin Horner has held positions on the TWA list, American list And USAirways list. Kevin will do what is best for Kevin. Irregardless of the harm it has caused west pilots.

Oh, I forgot who I was. I think you've accused me if being 3 different people. All wrong. I could care less about your psychotic pettiness but I can't in good conscience allow your incorrect name dragging go unanswered. I'm none of the people you think. You'll never know who I am. I don't work for your airline. Never have.