2014 Pilot Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

Not a reality check....just the West point of view. Also, I have a question...who will the West sue when USAPA goes away in a few weeks? Seems we had this same issue when ALPA got voted off the property. Our suit was dropped.
 
Driver

 
I don't remember getting any money back from ALPA when USAPA was elected.  Why/How is this situation any different?  I want the USAPA officers to hold on to any funds (per the C&B-Ls) for at least two years after the new SLI, the JCBA and the resolution of the last lawsuit..  That should allow the dust to settle, and then give refunds (per the C&B-Ls) to the USAPA MIGS ONLY.

 

[snapthis]

Not a reality check....just the West point of view. Also, I have a question...who will the West sue when USAPA goes away in a few weeks? Seems we had this same issue when ALPA got voted off the property. Our suit was dropped.
 
Driver

 
My point of view.
 
Certain individuals which may no longer have the USAPA security blanket? That's a possible reality check. I guess time will tell.
 
 
 

 

 

[traderjake]

 
 That should allow the dust to settle, and then give refunds (per the C&B-Ls) to the USAPA MIGS ONLY.

 
USAPA's lawyer already said it's illegal not to refund non members.
 
Let's see if anyone is willing to risk jail time.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
USAPA's lawyer already said it's illegal not to refund non members.

 
Well, I suppose the non-members who are fully paid up on their germane payments should get refunds.  However, if refunds do indeed come, then I imagine any payments in arrears (MIGS, or not) will be deducted first.

 

[A320 Driver]

My point of view.
 
Certain individuals which may no longer have the USAPA security blanket? That's a possible reality check. I guess time will tell.

As long as we have a funded MC and follow the M-B Arbitration, I for one don't care.

 

[snapthis]

As long as we have a funded MC and follow the M-B Arbitration, I for one don't care.

It looks like your union has come to it's senses..a little. You'll get a seat at the table along with us.

"We think it is important for our pilots to know the NMB single carrier finding, an election, or the certification of a representative would NOT affect the SLI process. McCaskill-Bond and the MOU (which binds APA) require that our pilots be separately represented throughout the process and that the seniority lists can only be integrated through a process consistent with McCaskill-Bond, i.e., either agreement among the parties or through an arbitration process leading to a fair and equitable integrated list."

Source: USAPA update 8/13/14

 

[nycbusdriver]

As long as we have a funded MC and follow the M-B Arbitration, I for one don't care.

 
I imagine nearly all east pilots feel the same way.
 
I don't think we will particularly miss USAPA.  It has done its job it a fairly effective manner, but now its time to move on.  For some strange reason the westholes think the east pilots will be wailing and gnashing teeth at the demise of USAPA.  Really, I don't think anyone cares much and will be quite happy with APA.
 
If there even was an election, I doubt USAPA would get any votes because the east pilots wouldn't even bother to send a ballot.  What would be the point?

 

[snapthis]

Preferential Bidding System MOU

During Tuesday's voting conference call, the APA board of directors approved the Preferential Bidding System (PBS) MOU. The USAPA president has also signed the PBS MOU. Finalizing the MOU begins the development and implementation stage of the transition to this new bidding system.

Unlike the current method of bidding for pre-constructed lines, PBS allows pilots to bid for sequences they want to fly on days they prefer to fly. PBS does not affect the quality of the sequences, which are constructed in a separate process, nor does it change the long-standing dynamic in which the most senior pilots in any four-part bid status will likely hold the most favorable schedules, in both quality of trips and specific days worked. What it will offer is an opportunity for each pilot to have better control over what type of flying they do. With the amount and mix of flying we face today, PBS should provide a tangible improvement to our monthly schedules.

However, it is important to remember that PBS lines can be only as good as the underlying sequences.

Other notable effects of PBS:

More line-holders and fewer pilots on reserve
Pilot bidding for recurrent training before the monthly bid run
Elimination of month-to-month bidding conflicts and recurrent training trip drops
Elimination of second-round and relief bidding

Former TWA and America West pilots with past PBS experience helped our scheduling and negotiating representatives throughout the lengthy MOU development process. We also consulted with and learned from the experiences of our peers at Delta and United (which include former Northwest and Continental pilots) on their transition to PBS. Based on that information and presentations from all of the major vendors, APA and USAPA chose AOS as the product that offers the best solution for our pilots. We chose AOS because the program offers a logical and intuitive bidding method and interface, and it honors seniority in the award process while considering the preferences of junior pilots. The program also includes reserve line building and allows concurrent bidding for both line flying and reserve. For more detail on the PBS MOU, read the TASC Scheduling PowerPoint presentation to the APA board and the actual MOU.

PBS implementation is planned to be completed within 12 months of signing the MOU. The implementation phase will include system-wide pilot training, beta testing in smaller four-part bid statuses, parallel bidding over two to three months, and a phased transition by bid status.

In parallel with PBS will come the new Trip Trade System (TTS). Significant company resources are currently being devoted to TTS development. APA has been participating in bi-weekly meetings to examine and provide input on the TTS development process. We can now report significant progress on this project. Because PBS and TTS are completely independent and an outside vendor is developing PBS, parallel development of the two systems should not result in any delay of the new TTS. The plan is for testing and, if successful, implementation of the TTS in the first part of 2015, significantly ahead of the transition to PBS.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hope ya bought that second hanky tie SNAP the party's at the table will be the "LEGAL" bargaining reps!

 

[snapthis]

 

Hope ya bought that second hanky tie SNAP the party's at the table will be the "LEGAL" bargaining reps!

That is correct. Our side will be represented by Freund of Bredhoff & Kaiser of Washington, DC.

http://www.bredhoff.com/index.php/attorneys/Members/Jeffrey-R-Freund
 
You can bring the hanky.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

DREAMS ARE FREE! But your Union USAPA will represent you, sorry my friend either the court or the language for the PA, but either way USAPA is your representation, ! Bring your second tie to wipe those tears!

 

[A320 Driver]

It looks like your union has come to it's senses..a little. You'll get a seat at the table along with us.
"We think it is important for our pilots to know the NMB single carrier finding, an election, or the certification of a representative would NOT affect the SLI process. McCaskill-Bond and the MOU (which binds APA) require that our pilots be separately represented throughout the process and that the seniority lists can only be integrated through a process consistent with McCaskill-Bond, i.e., either agreement among the parties or through an arbitration process leading to a fair and equitable integrated list."
Source: USAPA update 8/13/14

Yes, the West will be there...as reps on the USAPA MC. That is what I'm told has been agreed to.

 

[flyingskier]

Here's a reality check.
 
 
West pilots are discussing the NMB
 
 
[background=#f5f5f5]"I remember that, and that is their "showing of interest". Unless someone else comes up with at least 50%+1 of the pilots, the APA will remain unchallenged and an election won't be triggered.[/background]

[background=#f5f5f5]Wilder can suck my #@!!."[/background]
 
[background=#f5f5f5][background=#f5f5f5]"I think I disagree w some of the majority positions here about why the easties may be waving. (I too ran into a rather friendly east crew on a handoff of a west bird last trip) and this is what I thought. They are losing their majority rat of a union. (Soon... It's rabid, cornered and bleeding) They are losing their right arm that smacks the westy lil brother around when mommas not looking. NOW ...Some new bully older kid whatever has moved in to the neighborhood and they'd like to now... get along ---big smile now--[/background][/background]

[background=#f5f5f5]--and hope bygones can be bygones. In other words ...I smell fear." [/background]

[background=#f5f5f5]"Since we're all gonna be APA members soon there is a fear spreading amongst them of what will be exposed (let's say on an APA web board) about how they have been behaving for 8 years. And it's legitimate. We all know and have the scars to prove it. They should be ashamed and you won't be able to find a USAPA supporter anywhere." [/background]

[background=#f5f5f5]"The third listers tho are not fearful; they are as elated as we are and feel the opposite.(most). Less fear; intimidation fading, so they can be friendly to Westies without fear of reprisal. Ask me if you need an example in private about how one particular East capt verbally ravaged a third lister friend of mine for "talking to the enemy" when my friend saw an old commuter buddy (now westie) on the same hotel van."[/background]

[background=#f5f5f5]"Depending on how deceived a said eastie was by USAPA will dictate the response we will get. 99-2000 hires I think will be most infuriated as they didn't get to jump ahead of all us of hired between 99 and 05 merger at Cactus. And will feel thrown under the bus. [/background]
[background=#f5f5f5]Third listers seem MOSTLY to hate USAPAs as much as we [/background][background=#f5f5f5]89 hires (till jan 90) will probably be friendly if they got to grab their upgrade before us. (Let's move on etc)"[/background]
 
[background=#f5f5f5][background=#f5f5f5]"I do not believe you will see much support for an East army of herpes...uhhh Xerxes."[/background][/background]
 
 
 
Snap,

Please pass on to your West friends that I'm waving, smiling and happy to see them because of their decision to stay in PHX! I have vacation this summer in June, July and August! I get a great schedule with great trips! And you guys voted by 98% to approve the MOU which buried the NIC forever. Additionally, you guys keep the legal battles going which means you will be trapped in PHX for years to come! Plus, I'll upgrade on the 320 on the next bid (just missed it last bid). Things are going great on the East thanks to the West. You bet were friends, keep up the good work!

Your waving friend,

Skier (at the beach)

 

[Claxon]

Here's a reality check.
 
 
West pilots are discussing the NMB
 
 
"I remember that, and that is their "showing of interest". Unless someone else comes up with at least 50%+1 of the pilots, the APA will remain unchallenged and an election won't be triggered.Wilder can suck my #@!!."
 
"I think I disagree w some of the majority positions here about why the easties may be waving. (I too ran into a rather friendly east crew on a handoff of a west bird last trip) and this is what I thought. They are losing their majority rat of a union. (Soon... It's rabid, cornered and bleeding) They are losing their right arm that smacks the westy lil brother around when mommas not looking. NOW ...Some new bully older kid whatever has moved in to the neighborhood and they'd like to now... get along ---big smile now--

--and hope bygones can be bygones. In other words ...I smell fear." "Since we're all gonna be APA members soon there is a fear spreading amongst them of what will be exposed (let's say on an APA web board) about how they have been behaving for 8 years. And it's legitimate. We all know and have the scars to prove it. They should be ashamed and you won't be able to find a USAPA supporter anywhere." "The third listers tho are not fearful; they are as elated as we are and feel the opposite.(most). Less fear; intimidation fading, so they can be friendly to Westies without fear of reprisal. Ask me if you need an example in private about how one particular East capt verbally ravaged a third lister friend of mine for "talking to the enemy" when my friend saw an old commuter buddy (now westie) on the same hotel van.""Depending on how deceived a said eastie was by USAPA will dictate the response we will get. 99-2000 hires I think will be most infuriated as they didn't get to jump ahead of all us of hired between 99 and 05 merger at Cactus. And will feel thrown under the bus. Third listers seem MOSTLY to hate USAPAs as much as we 89 hires (till jan 90) will probably be friendly if they got to grab their upgrade before us. (Let's move on etc)"
 
"I do not believe you will see much support for an East army of herpes...uhhh Xerxes."
 
 
 
West pilots are discussing dues collecting and the desire to fire West pilots via section 29.
 
"To the bitter end….these people are just plain @@@holes."
 
"The only redeeming thought is that now I'll be current and, MIG or not, I'd BETTER get back money when this POS union finally dies and refunds their bankroll. With talk of a possible extension to their miserable life due to the NMB considering ordering an election, my happy face just got put back in the box."
 
"I am on the list from the SCABS. Do I have to send the 100 dollar amount to be in good standing. I don't care to be in good standing."
 
"No one is getting money back from the SCABS. They will find a way to use it to sue somebody. This is my 8 the or 9 th sec 29 from the SCABS."
 
"If Streble ' s dues policy is violating the C & B L's he needs to be brought up on charges. 

"
 
 
 
 
 West pilots are discussing the appeal to the 9th.
 
"Pretty interesting reading. Judge Silver is called to task on her rulings. The good doctor has outdone himself once again."
 
"We are unified, funded and well represented legally. Jacob and Freund had their work cut out for them starting eight years ago and both have excelled."
 
"Agreed"
 
"Usapa meet Karma"
 
"So yeah, USAPA meet Karma, she's a ####."
 
"USAPA is the impediment here and they won't be involved either way."
 
 
"Seham did address the litigation in a USAPA campaign road show, but he did so solely for the purpose of garnering USAPA votes. The AAA MEC was selling that lawsuit as a reason to vote for ALPA, and Seham told them that the lawsuit was a loser. And Seham was right. With regard to the appeal, for all practical purposes USAPA is dead once APA takes over, either because APA takes over and settled the case or because the East is unable to certify a class."
 
"Never underestimate the stupidity of the east mind. They will believe they can control this situation until the day they get their new junior seniority numbers and their MD 80 f/o bids in LGA"

Cap'n Aux and his teenage blog buddies sit up all night and have their imaginary west pilot hallucinations. Snap transcribes them.
Pretty sad this is the way the west pilots ended their Nic land grab.
Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered.

 

[Claxon]

east pilots wave because they are not 2005 hires expecting 17 yrs instant seniority.
They earned their seniority, unlike the west quota thieves.