2014 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

 
^^^^^^^^^^
The message board equivalent of a "selfie".   Bravo.  

 
 
 
end_of_usapa
 
         

 

[oscarjazz]

You should have spent more time with your own delta airline pilot business alpa shill,  you would not be getting the pbgc for your retirement soon if you had, maybe.

That's funny. I got $500,000 from our bankruptcy, cash in hand. I will get $75,000 peer year from the PBGC when I retire. I'm not interested in any other promises to pay. In cash I trust.

Nice try, but try again.

 

[USA320Pilot]

end_of_usapa. 

 

[USA320Pilot]

[SIZE=10pt]In the short-term AAG, APA, and USAPA will continue to work on the JCBA.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]According to APA, "In accordance with the NMB's standard procedures, APA "and any Intervenor have 30 days from the date of this determination to file an application supported by a showing of interest of at least 50% of the single transportation system." APA has previously submitted evidence to the NMB that we represent approximately two-thirds of the combined pilot group. At the end of the 30-day period, the NMB will either certify APA as the bargaining agent for the pilots of American Airlines or call for an election between APA and no union."[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Once APA is certified the new American pilot's bargaining agent per the MOU a 30-day negotiating period will begin between APA and AAG. At the end of 30 days any items not TA'ed will got to expedited binding arbitration.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]I suspect there was no PA negotiated this week between the Airline Parties. Once APA is designated the pilots union they will be free to move forward with the seniority integration without USAPA input (f there is no PA). Based on previous legal petitions and exhibits management and APA desire a 3-way M-B ISL arbitration with 3 autonomous Merger Committees (MC) funded by APA: APA, APA Leagcy East,and APA Legacy West, which will have their own advisors and funding. Why? LOA 96 will still apply and APA could be held liable for DFR and management held liable if they do not implement the Nicolau Award or permit the APA Leaacy West MC to present the Nicolau Award to the M-B BOA.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The MOU paragraph four (last sentence) states, "Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and status quo arising thereunder." Therefore, until the MOU/MTA is fully implemented, and the MOU/MTA cannot be fully implemented until you have a JCBA, and you cannot execute and implement the JCBA until you have a M-B ISL, I believe the Airlines Parties (AMR, LCC, APA, and USAPA) negotiated in the MOU a sure-fire way for APA to be held DFR if there is not a West MC who can introduce the Nicolau Award to the M-B 3-panel BOA.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]One other point that is unclear is the status of USAPA's M-B injunction. Judge Howell has all of the petitions, replies, and exhibits necessary to conduct a hearing or render a decision. With USAPA likely to be eliminated in the not-too-distant future the Plaintiff in the case will cease to exist. As when USAPA replaced ALPA the AAA MEC's Nicolau Award lawsuit filed in D.C. Superior Court was dismissed because the Plaintiff no longer existed who represented US Airways' pilots.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]The next point is base representation. In the interim per APA's C&BLs the APA DCA Reps will become Reps for all DCA pilots and Joe Stein and Pete Dugstad will no longer represent the DCA pilots. And, it is expected APA will become the combined pilots our union before DCA Reps Elect Jay Milkey and Stephen Nathan take office. For CLT, PHL, and PHX these bases will lose 1 of their 3 Reps because APA's C&BLs permit only two Reps per base regardless of the base's size. For PHL either Paul DiOrio, Paul Music, or John Taylor will lose their position and in CLT either Bob Frear, Ron Nelson, or Courtney Borman will lose their position. I suspect Eric Ferguson will be on the APA Legacy West MC, presuming their will now be a 3-way M-B ISL arbitration with no PA, and John Scherf and Dave Simmons will continue to be PHX Reps.[/SIZE]

APA will then hold elections and I suspect former ALPA union leaders, who are good people, will step up and reengage in union leadership. 

 

[Claxon]

I will get $75,000 peer year from the PBGC when I retire. I'm not interested in any other promises to pay. In cash I trust.

Nice try, but try again.

Your math is wrong for pbgc. Your delta pilot pension ended in 2006.  your alpa buddies were watching your original pension alpa shill.  Please correct your math.  What is a peer year?
 

PBGC Maximum Monthly Guarantees for Plans Terminating in 2006 Age 2006 Straight-Life Annuity 2006 Joint and 50% Survivor Annuity 65 $3,971.59 $3,574.43

 

[Claxon]

[SIZE=10pt]In the short-term AAG, APA, and USAPA will continue to work on the JCBA.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]According to APA, "In accordance with the NMB's standard procedures, APA "and any Intervenor have 30 days from the date of this determination to file an application supported by a showing of interest of at least 50% of the single transportation system." APA has previously submitted evidence to the NMB that we represent approximately two-thirds of the combined pilot group. At the end of the 30-day period, the NMB will either certify APA as the bargaining agent for the pilots of American Airlines or call for an election between APA and no union."[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Once APA is certified the new American pilot's bargaining agent per the MOU a 30-day negotiating period will begin between APA and AAG. At the end of 30 days any items not TA'ed will got to expedited binding arbitration.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]I suspect there was no PA negotiated this week between the Airline Parties. Once APA is designated the pilots union they will be free to move forward with the seniority integration without USAPA input (f there is no PA). Based on previous legal petitions and exhibits management and APA desire a 3-way M-B ISL arbitration with 3 autonomous Merger Committees (MC) funded by APA: APA, APA Leagcy East,and APA Legacy West, which will have their own advisors and funding. Why? LOA 96 will still apply and APA could be held liable for DFR and management held liable if they do not implement the Nicolau Award or permit the APA Leaacy West MC to present the Nicolau Award to the M-B BOA.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The MOU paragraph four (last sentence) states, "Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and status quo arising thereunder." Therefore, until the MOU/MTA is fully implemented, and the MOU/MTA cannot be fully implemented until you have a JCBA, and you cannot execute and implement the JCBA until you have a M-B ISL, I believe the Airlines Parties (AMR, LCC, APA, and USAPA) negotiated in the MOU a sure-fire way for APA to be held DFR if there is not a West MC who can introduce the Nicolau Award to the M-B 3-panel BOA.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]One other point that is unclear is the status of USAPA's M-B injunction. Judge Howell has all of the petitions, replies, and exhibits necessary to conduct a hearing or render a decision. With USAPA likely to be eliminated in the not-too-distant future the Plaintiff in the case will cease to exist. As when USAPA replaced ALPA the AAA MEC's Nicolau Award lawsuit filed in D.C. Superior Court was dismissed because the Plaintiff no longer existed who represented US Airways' pilots.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]The next point is base representation. In the interim per APA's C&BLs the APA DCA Reps will become Reps for all DCA pilots and Joe Stein and Pete Dugstad will no longer represent the DCA pilots. And, it is expected APA will become the combined pilots our union before DCA Reps Elect Jay Milkey and Stephen Nathan take office. For CLT, PHL, and PHX these bases will lose 1 of their 3 Reps because APA's C&BLs permit only two Reps per base regardless of the base's size. For PHL either Paul DiOrio, Paul Music, or John Taylor will lose their position and in CLT either Bob Frear, Ron Nelson, or Courtney Borman will lose their position. I suspect Eric Ferguson will be on the APA Legacy West MC, presuming their will now be a 3-way M-B ISL arbitration with no PA, and John Scherf and Dave Simmons will continue to be PHX Reps.[/SIZE]

APA will then hold elections and I suspect former ALPA union leaders, who are good people, will step up and reengage in union leadership. 

Now, about that ual, USAirways certain merger and USAPA losing in phx court you predicted..................

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

No PCA , wow imagine that, looks like PA, no way, APA held liable for a LOA voted away? Dream on ! Hairplantus you amaze us Judge Howell will rule this week, M/B dead ahead!

 

[oscarjazz]

Your math is wrong for pbgc. Your delta pilot pension ended in 2006.  your alpa buddies were watching your original pension alpa shill.  Please correct your math.  What is a peer year?
 

PBGC Maximum Monthly Guarantees for Plans Terminating in 2006 Age 2006 Straight-Life Annuity 2006 Joint and 50% Survivor Annuity 65 $3,971.59 $3,574.43

Sorry, using my tablet, should have been per year. Now USAPA idiot, go google "PBGC PC-5" and let me know what you find. 75K per year is it. You are quoting the maximum monthly guarantee, not the maximum allowed by law under PC-5 recovery.

 

[nevergiveup]

 
 
 
end_of_usapa
 
         

we told you it was coming a long time ago.

 

[Claxon]

Sorry, using my tablet, should have been per year. Now USAPA idiot, go google "PBGC PC-5" and let me know what you find. 75K per year is it. You are quoting the maximum monthly guarantee, not the maximum allowed by law under PC-5 recovery.

I hope you do not use a tablet for your approaches to airports.
 
 
"I will get $75,000 peer year from the PBGC when I retire."
Please provide the math for pbgc  You said 75,000 per year.  I do not see that on monthly maximums, unless you are single and waiting till your middle seventies. 
 
http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/trusteed/plans/plan-20544100.html

 

[traderjake]

we told you it was coming a long time ago.

 
You better get busy on that card drive, the West can probably help you get the addresses on the American pilots.

 

[oscarjazz]

I hope you do not use a tablet for your approaches to airports.
 
Please provide the math for pbgc  You said 75,000 per year.  I do not see that on monthly maximums, unless you are single and waiting till your middle seventies. 
 
http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/trusteed/plans/plan-20544100.html

Well I guess I should have figured you were too lazy to look up the information. When the PBGC takes over a plan, they calculate the value of the insured losses they have. The PBGC also gets a recovery from the bankrupt corporation, usually in the form of a bankruptcy claim. In Delta's case the bankruptcy claim was $2.2 billion. When monetized it came to over $1.4 billion. That amount covered the portion of their insured losses allowed by law and then the rest is split amongst the pilots and the PBGC. That amounted to about $450 million in value that went to Delta pilots, including retired pilots. The PC-5 recovery is ON TOP OF the insurance maximum. Thus the $75,000 I have had two different estimates, the first showed $72,000 and the second $75,000 based on the final recovery amount that was agreed to. That's the math.

 

[Claxon]

Well I guess I should have figured you were too lazy to look up the information. When the PBGC takes over a plan, they calculate the value of the insured losses they have. The PBGC also gets a recovery from the bankrupt corporation, usually in the form of a bankruptcy claim. In Delta's case the bankruptcy claim was $2.2 billion. When monetized it came to over $1.4 billion. That amount covered the portion of their insured losses allowed by law and then the rest is split amongst the pilots and the PBGC. That amounted to about $450 million in value that went to Delta pilots, including retired pilots. The PC-5 recovery is ON TOP OF the insurance maximum. Thus the $75,000 I have had two different estimates, the first showed $72,000 and the second $75,000 based on the final recovery amount that was agreed to. That's the math.

 
 
You said you will get 75,000 per year from the pbgc.
"PC5 and PC6 (All other nonguaranteed benefits)
Next, any remaining assets go to other benefits promised by the plan but not guaranteed by PBGC—for example, benefits that exceed PBGC's guarantee and that do not fall into any of the earlier priority categories. These benefits are in PC5 if they are nonforfeitable (generally, vested benefits); otherwise, they are in PC6. It is not typical for a plan that PBGC takes over to have enough assets or recoveries from employers to pay significant benefits in PC5 or PC6.

 

[Freighterguynow]

That is plausible.  
 
 



 
 
No.  An arbitrator only has the power that is willing granted by the participants,lol:

Power granted on 9 Dec 2013 - not one day earlier.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I don't really care what the list looks like in the end, or what lists were used towards that end, as long as the three arbitrators construct it.  I know the APA wants as many of their members ahead of LCC, that's their job. As long as three arbitrators construct it after all the testimony(preferably with west input), I'm at peace with it. 
 
I do worry a bit about things going sideways, before and/or after the seniority integration, we've all seen how that can happen.  However I 'think' we're finally on the verge of getting on with it, whatever that will ultimately entail.  Eight years in an infinite legal loop blows chunks.