2014 Pilot Discussion
- Thread starter Falcon
- Start date
- Status
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
luvthe9 said:
Hey thanks.
Like I said, you're constant attention is greatly appreciated.
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
Claxon said:
Your fear of the West having a voice in an arbitration you can't weasel out of is noted.
Should have, could have, would have;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
MEC NewsDirect
January 31, 2008
A AAA/AWA Joint Chairman's message has been emailed to pilots and posted
under What's New. The text of the letter is below:
AAA-AWA MEC Joint Chairman’s Message
January 31, 2008
Fellow America West and US Airways pilots,
Today, the AAA and AWA Steering Committees and their respective merger and
negotiating teams will begin talks about the issues separating our pilot groups in
order to produce a comprehensive contract counterproposal for both MECs to
review. As we have said in the past, any comprehensive proposal must adequately
address seniority implementation issues and all open JNC issues for both pilot
groups.
The Steering Committees are meeting at a neutral site, and to give this process
the best chance for success, both sides have agreed to a communications blackout
during this time. As a result of this policy, our pilots should understand that any
hearsay information floating around is unsubstantiated, and should be treated as
rumor only.
If the AAA and AWA Steering Committees are able to successfully produce a
comprehensive contract counterproposal, it will first be reviewed by both MECs. If
both MECs approve the final product, JNC negotiations would resume with
management as we counter the infamous “Kirby proposal” that we received on
May 8, 2007.
If a TA is achieved through joint negotiations and is subsequently approved by
both MECs it will be sent to each pilot group for ratification. The rank and file
members of this union will be the ultimate arbiters of any agreement.
There is much at stake here for both pilot groups. None of your union volunteers
takes the challenges ahead of us lightly. Your MEC leadership and the Steering
Committees all appreciate your patience while we work through these very
difficult issues.
Fraternally,
Captain Jack Stephan
Chairman, AAA MEC
Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA MEC
MEC NewsDirect
January 31, 2008
A AAA/AWA Joint Chairman's message has been emailed to pilots and posted
under What's New. The text of the letter is below:
AAA-AWA MEC Joint Chairman’s Message
January 31, 2008
Fellow America West and US Airways pilots,
Today, the AAA and AWA Steering Committees and their respective merger and
negotiating teams will begin talks about the issues separating our pilot groups in
order to produce a comprehensive contract counterproposal for both MECs to
review. As we have said in the past, any comprehensive proposal must adequately
address seniority implementation issues and all open JNC issues for both pilot
groups.
The Steering Committees are meeting at a neutral site, and to give this process
the best chance for success, both sides have agreed to a communications blackout
during this time. As a result of this policy, our pilots should understand that any
hearsay information floating around is unsubstantiated, and should be treated as
rumor only.
If the AAA and AWA Steering Committees are able to successfully produce a
comprehensive contract counterproposal, it will first be reviewed by both MECs. If
both MECs approve the final product, JNC negotiations would resume with
management as we counter the infamous “Kirby proposal” that we received on
May 8, 2007.
If a TA is achieved through joint negotiations and is subsequently approved by
both MECs it will be sent to each pilot group for ratification. The rank and file
members of this union will be the ultimate arbiters of any agreement.
There is much at stake here for both pilot groups. None of your union volunteers
takes the challenges ahead of us lightly. Your MEC leadership and the Steering
Committees all appreciate your patience while we work through these very
difficult issues.
Fraternally,
Captain Jack Stephan
Chairman, AAA MEC
Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA MEC
im back..!!
Senior
- Mar 26, 2011
- 499
- 504
We know you identify with the F/A's, but your on the pilot seniority list dipstick...traderjake said:
Try to keep up.....
im back..!!
Senior
- Mar 26, 2011
- 499
- 504
You best hang onto that chicken grease, your gonna need it.....loltraderjake said:
Could have, should have and they did, send a message. alpa out, USAPA in.
From: "AAA041 Fastread" <AAA041-Reviewer@mail.alpamail.org>
To: <AAA041-Fastread@mail.alpamail.org>
Subject: Council 41 Information
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:41:19 +0000
COUNCIL 41 INFORMATION
02-20-06
Fellow council 41 pilots,
We continue to be disappointed in the performance of MEC Chairman Pollock and
are convinced that a change in leadership is in the best interest of the AAA
pilots.
In a letter dated February 1st, Chairman Pollock stated he was finished with
“MEC politics getting in the way”; this just after the political recall of
Captain Mowery from the JNC and Negotiating committee on January 30th.
Last Friday in a letter to the pilots of council 94 (PIT) and council 41 (PHL),
Chairman Pollock once again communicated his desire for unity while propagating
just the opposite through his words and actions.
The following is a letter from Captain Mowery to Chairman Pollock. We provide
this for your information and insight.
Fraternally,
Eric Rowe councl41@worldpath.net 603-235-5045
David Ciabattoni ciaalpa@comcast.net 610-627-5896
Jim Portale compute@cybercomm.net 609-709-9515
************************************************************************
********
************
Chairman Pollock,
Although I am no longer a member of Council 41 or 94 I did receive your
letter to the pilots in those respective councils through an email from a
member. I am compelled to respond. Your Chairman’s letter of February 1st was
bad enough but this one goes over the edge.
First, I believe you have crossed a line by interfering in the affairs
of specifically named councils. I am not aware of an MEC Chairman ever doing
this before. Yo u have extended the boundaries of improper Chairman decorum
beyond the expanded limits you set with the “ambush” MEC meetings you helped set
up, and the indecorous behavior that you allowed, to put pressure on the PIT and
PHL reps during LOA 93. In my opinion this letter is another abuse of the
“bully pulpit” from which you constantly push your agenda.
Early in your letter you mention that the communications of Council 94
and 41 had a “distinct absence of substance”. Looking back on your six
consecutive years of service as an MEC officer, with over half of that time as
the MEC Chairman, I believe those four words accurately describe your
stewardship. You give great speeches, Bill, talking about “unity” and ”working
for the betterment of the pilot group” but what initiatives have you truly
undertaken to back up those words? Your Legislative Affairs background shows.
You constantly remind me of political candidates for office who gi ve great
“stump” speeches and say all the right buzz words but who do very little to
follow through. I do remember one initiative early in your tenure to establish
a “Recognition program” with the help of a Navy buddy of yours (Cunningham?).
Even that had no substantial follow through.
You mention that “rhetoric and fabrication won’t get us anywhere”. I
could not agree more. So let’s get to it.
You state that the Council 94 and 41 communications have been one of
“vilification” for as long as you can remember (20 years). Council 41 was
created in the late ‘80’s. The first reps that I remember were Andy Skiba and
Jack Stephan (your current Comm Chair). Up next, John Crocker and Gerry
McGuckin. Gerry left to go on the Negotiating Committee and the long tenure of
service of Mike Tosi began. When I was the PHL C/O rep from ’02-’04 I do not
recall “vilifying” anyone. I believe my stewardship of Council 41 was marked
with pro fessional correspondence routed through the ALPA Comm structure.
Therefore every letter is available for your review. When I wrote to the pilots
I gave them the facts and my view of those facts. The closest I came to
vilification was when I recounted your astounding ruling from the Chair the
night that the DB plan was voluntarily terminated by nine members of the MEC
(9-3 vote). You ruled that a resolution calling for membership ratification was
out of order! (Contrast this with your constant pre
ssure to get a deal for the pilots to vote on during LOA 93---oh, where was that
same fervor that long night in March ’03 when we deliberated on the fate of the
pension plan?) Do you remember the basis for the ruling, Bill? I do. You
ruled that membership ratification was out of order because the TA brought back
by the Negotiating Committee stipulated MEC ratification! How could any NC ever
bring back a TA that dictated MEC ratification only within it?! Donn Butkovic
was one of the architects of that TA. Remember where he was when we were
arguing over your incredible ruling? On a plane with Kelly Ison flying to
Bristol for the NASCAR race. It was after this debacle that I brought the
resolution to ballot the pilots, under the Constitution, to insure that the
membership could never be bypassed again on such a significant issue.
If you do research my letters you will even find one supporting Mike
Tosi against a recall attempt. I considered such action divisive and did not
feel Tosi had done anything to warrant a recall (I also successfully talked
another member out of a second recall attempt late in the term. Tosi was not
running for reelection and deserved to go out with his “boots on”. This is not
documented in any letter naturally, so you will have to take my word on that
one).
Without a doubt you are recalling the tenure of Capt. John Davis in
Council 94 from ’93-’00. Seven years. If you go back 20 years in that Council
I remember that the C/O rep was Roger Hall and the F/O rep was Kim Snider. I
also remember some liberal use of the roll call by those two against DCA and BOS
to staff the committees with their candidates. Ask Rich Wareing or go to the
ALPA archives for proof. It truly amazes me how long a shadow John continues to
cast over members of the MEC more than five years after his retirement.
You mention in your letter that you have recently exercised “leadership”
to “raise the bar of our performance”. I assume you are partly referring to
your mid-January announcement to cram notetaker Rick Moccia onto the JNC process
as a full time participant. If you had truly wanted to raise the bar of
performance I would have thought you would have come to Dan Scola and myself to
ask for our opinion of who could have made us a better “team”. You did not do
that. Even if you did not val ue our input I would have thought the right thing
a leader would do would be to inform the primary participants of your decision
rather than have them hear about it through a more public forum. Leadership 101
teaches that you tell someone “news” that affects them first, privately, before
you go public. Additionally, Don Hollerbach would have offered far more to
improving the team than Rick Moccia. Don has valuation talents that none of the
rest of us possess and would have made a contribution to a far more rounded,
experienced JNC. Your style
of leadership, Bill, leaves much to be desired.
Your comments about the Grievance process were without substance. How
would you have gotten proper value into the pockets of pilots sooner with the
obstinate, in bankruptcy, management that our current Grievance Chair has been
forced to deal with? You know as well as I do that this company was not parting
with a single nickel for the last se veral years unless forced to. Cash was a
problem. It is disingenuous to assert that the Grievance process was failing in
that extreme environment. Lastly, on this subject, you must have missed my JNC
brief at the 4Q meeting on the Grievance bundle (SS 19,20 and 21) recently
agreed to by the JNC and the company. More resolution tools have been added
into the tool box for the future.
You write about reviewing the “game film” from LOA 93. Did your review
show the private meeting instigated by me with you and Jack Stephan in which I
stated at the outset that we had to put our differences behind us and work
together as a team to be successful on behalf of the pilots? You both agreed.
Your actions subsequently, however, showed no teamwork between the Officers, the
Communication committee and the NC. Not one communication was ever run by me
before it was public. I extended the olive branch, Bill, and my review of the
“game film” show s you fumbling the ball. Instead of teamwork I witnessed
letters that cut the legs from the NC, “ambush” Special MEC meetings to put
pressure on the RC4 and backing the release of a report that forecast
liquidation to the public. Jerry Glass must have wet his pants with glee when
you asked his permission for that report to be released. It was a lot of fun
sitting across from Bruce Ashby all summer with these uncoordinated events
happening behind my back.
Finally, yes finally, I want to address your comments at the end of your
letter calling for “consensus” going forward. You write to the PIT and PHL
reps: “Please consider this invitation.” Where was this sentiment just three
weeks ago, on January 30th when I was removed from the JNC/NC and Butkovic was
placed on? One faction of the MEC was entirely “blinded” on that date. As a
review, the reps from PIT and PHL have NEVER totally blinded the other side. On
April 9, 2004 only tw o members of a four member Negotiating Committee were
removed. PIT and PHL were cognizant of leaving something for the other faction
of the MEC. They understood the importance of leaving some “eyes and ears” on
such an important committee for the entire MEC to feel comfortable. What
subsequently blinded one side of the MEC was the resignation of those two
remaining members in a flawed “Jim Jones like” mass suicide strategy (who on
that committee do you think dreamed that one up?).
When the JNC was established last summer, once again, there was a
balance with the appointment of myself and Dan Scola. Both sides could be
comfortable that someone they trusted was in place on such a critical committee.
In short, PIT and PHL, who you chastise, have always left something on the table
for the entire MEC even when they had the power to do whatever they wanted. On
January 30th the favor was not returned. Relations on the MEC took two giant
steps backward that day.
Bill, your plea to work together now to build “consensus” was sent to
the wrong people. Your failure to recognize that demonstrates further your
inability to truly be an effective leader of this MEC.
Doug Mowery
19Feb06
From: "AAA041 Fastread" <AAA041-Reviewer@mail.alpamail.org>
To: <AAA041-Fastread@mail.alpamail.org>
Subject: Council 41 Information
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:41:19 +0000
COUNCIL 41 INFORMATION
02-20-06
Fellow council 41 pilots,
We continue to be disappointed in the performance of MEC Chairman Pollock and
are convinced that a change in leadership is in the best interest of the AAA
pilots.
In a letter dated February 1st, Chairman Pollock stated he was finished with
“MEC politics getting in the way”; this just after the political recall of
Captain Mowery from the JNC and Negotiating committee on January 30th.
Last Friday in a letter to the pilots of council 94 (PIT) and council 41 (PHL),
Chairman Pollock once again communicated his desire for unity while propagating
just the opposite through his words and actions.
The following is a letter from Captain Mowery to Chairman Pollock. We provide
this for your information and insight.
Fraternally,
Eric Rowe councl41@worldpath.net 603-235-5045
David Ciabattoni ciaalpa@comcast.net 610-627-5896
Jim Portale compute@cybercomm.net 609-709-9515
************************************************************************
********
************
Chairman Pollock,
Although I am no longer a member of Council 41 or 94 I did receive your
letter to the pilots in those respective councils through an email from a
member. I am compelled to respond. Your Chairman’s letter of February 1st was
bad enough but this one goes over the edge.
First, I believe you have crossed a line by interfering in the affairs
of specifically named councils. I am not aware of an MEC Chairman ever doing
this before. Yo u have extended the boundaries of improper Chairman decorum
beyond the expanded limits you set with the “ambush” MEC meetings you helped set
up, and the indecorous behavior that you allowed, to put pressure on the PIT and
PHL reps during LOA 93. In my opinion this letter is another abuse of the
“bully pulpit” from which you constantly push your agenda.
Early in your letter you mention that the communications of Council 94
and 41 had a “distinct absence of substance”. Looking back on your six
consecutive years of service as an MEC officer, with over half of that time as
the MEC Chairman, I believe those four words accurately describe your
stewardship. You give great speeches, Bill, talking about “unity” and ”working
for the betterment of the pilot group” but what initiatives have you truly
undertaken to back up those words? Your Legislative Affairs background shows.
You constantly remind me of political candidates for office who gi ve great
“stump” speeches and say all the right buzz words but who do very little to
follow through. I do remember one initiative early in your tenure to establish
a “Recognition program” with the help of a Navy buddy of yours (Cunningham?).
Even that had no substantial follow through.
You mention that “rhetoric and fabrication won’t get us anywhere”. I
could not agree more. So let’s get to it.
You state that the Council 94 and 41 communications have been one of
“vilification” for as long as you can remember (20 years). Council 41 was
created in the late ‘80’s. The first reps that I remember were Andy Skiba and
Jack Stephan (your current Comm Chair). Up next, John Crocker and Gerry
McGuckin. Gerry left to go on the Negotiating Committee and the long tenure of
service of Mike Tosi began. When I was the PHL C/O rep from ’02-’04 I do not
recall “vilifying” anyone. I believe my stewardship of Council 41 was marked
with pro fessional correspondence routed through the ALPA Comm structure.
Therefore every letter is available for your review. When I wrote to the pilots
I gave them the facts and my view of those facts. The closest I came to
vilification was when I recounted your astounding ruling from the Chair the
night that the DB plan was voluntarily terminated by nine members of the MEC
(9-3 vote). You ruled that a resolution calling for membership ratification was
out of order! (Contrast this with your constant pre
ssure to get a deal for the pilots to vote on during LOA 93---oh, where was that
same fervor that long night in March ’03 when we deliberated on the fate of the
pension plan?) Do you remember the basis for the ruling, Bill? I do. You
ruled that membership ratification was out of order because the TA brought back
by the Negotiating Committee stipulated MEC ratification! How could any NC ever
bring back a TA that dictated MEC ratification only within it?! Donn Butkovic
was one of the architects of that TA. Remember where he was when we were
arguing over your incredible ruling? On a plane with Kelly Ison flying to
Bristol for the NASCAR race. It was after this debacle that I brought the
resolution to ballot the pilots, under the Constitution, to insure that the
membership could never be bypassed again on such a significant issue.
If you do research my letters you will even find one supporting Mike
Tosi against a recall attempt. I considered such action divisive and did not
feel Tosi had done anything to warrant a recall (I also successfully talked
another member out of a second recall attempt late in the term. Tosi was not
running for reelection and deserved to go out with his “boots on”. This is not
documented in any letter naturally, so you will have to take my word on that
one).
Without a doubt you are recalling the tenure of Capt. John Davis in
Council 94 from ’93-’00. Seven years. If you go back 20 years in that Council
I remember that the C/O rep was Roger Hall and the F/O rep was Kim Snider. I
also remember some liberal use of the roll call by those two against DCA and BOS
to staff the committees with their candidates. Ask Rich Wareing or go to the
ALPA archives for proof. It truly amazes me how long a shadow John continues to
cast over members of the MEC more than five years after his retirement.
You mention in your letter that you have recently exercised “leadership”
to “raise the bar of our performance”. I assume you are partly referring to
your mid-January announcement to cram notetaker Rick Moccia onto the JNC process
as a full time participant. If you had truly wanted to raise the bar of
performance I would have thought you would have come to Dan Scola and myself to
ask for our opinion of who could have made us a better “team”. You did not do
that. Even if you did not val ue our input I would have thought the right thing
a leader would do would be to inform the primary participants of your decision
rather than have them hear about it through a more public forum. Leadership 101
teaches that you tell someone “news” that affects them first, privately, before
you go public. Additionally, Don Hollerbach would have offered far more to
improving the team than Rick Moccia. Don has valuation talents that none of the
rest of us possess and would have made a contribution to a far more rounded,
experienced JNC. Your style
of leadership, Bill, leaves much to be desired.
Your comments about the Grievance process were without substance. How
would you have gotten proper value into the pockets of pilots sooner with the
obstinate, in bankruptcy, management that our current Grievance Chair has been
forced to deal with? You know as well as I do that this company was not parting
with a single nickel for the last se veral years unless forced to. Cash was a
problem. It is disingenuous to assert that the Grievance process was failing in
that extreme environment. Lastly, on this subject, you must have missed my JNC
brief at the 4Q meeting on the Grievance bundle (SS 19,20 and 21) recently
agreed to by the JNC and the company. More resolution tools have been added
into the tool box for the future.
You write about reviewing the “game film” from LOA 93. Did your review
show the private meeting instigated by me with you and Jack Stephan in which I
stated at the outset that we had to put our differences behind us and work
together as a team to be successful on behalf of the pilots? You both agreed.
Your actions subsequently, however, showed no teamwork between the Officers, the
Communication committee and the NC. Not one communication was ever run by me
before it was public. I extended the olive branch, Bill, and my review of the
“game film” show s you fumbling the ball. Instead of teamwork I witnessed
letters that cut the legs from the NC, “ambush” Special MEC meetings to put
pressure on the RC4 and backing the release of a report that forecast
liquidation to the public. Jerry Glass must have wet his pants with glee when
you asked his permission for that report to be released. It was a lot of fun
sitting across from Bruce Ashby all summer with these uncoordinated events
happening behind my back.
Finally, yes finally, I want to address your comments at the end of your
letter calling for “consensus” going forward. You write to the PIT and PHL
reps: “Please consider this invitation.” Where was this sentiment just three
weeks ago, on January 30th when I was removed from the JNC/NC and Butkovic was
placed on? One faction of the MEC was entirely “blinded” on that date. As a
review, the reps from PIT and PHL have NEVER totally blinded the other side. On
April 9, 2004 only tw o members of a four member Negotiating Committee were
removed. PIT and PHL were cognizant of leaving something for the other faction
of the MEC. They understood the importance of leaving some “eyes and ears” on
such an important committee for the entire MEC to feel comfortable. What
subsequently blinded one side of the MEC was the resignation of those two
remaining members in a flawed “Jim Jones like” mass suicide strategy (who on
that committee do you think dreamed that one up?).
When the JNC was established last summer, once again, there was a
balance with the appointment of myself and Dan Scola. Both sides could be
comfortable that someone they trusted was in place on such a critical committee.
In short, PIT and PHL, who you chastise, have always left something on the table
for the entire MEC even when they had the power to do whatever they wanted. On
January 30th the favor was not returned. Relations on the MEC took two giant
steps backward that day.
Bill, your plea to work together now to build “consensus” was sent to
the wrong people. Your failure to recognize that demonstrates further your
inability to truly be an effective leader of this MEC.
Doug Mowery
19Feb06
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
im back..!! said:
Whatever you say, dimwit.
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
- 3,236
I know you're just trying to stir the pot. Evidently what Hummel just put out seems to contradict exactly what is happening in your reality.traderjake said:
Fear? There was never a question the west pilots and you were clueless about the process.traderjake said:
You, Spinthis and your source - the almighty Munn continue to step on your cranks with your ignorance. It is a shame you have to rely on Munn, but it is rather amusing.
There will be an agreement. It has already begun.
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