2014 Pilot Discussion

[luvthe9]

"Kasher will pay.
 
Recall Hummel
 
Voter Down tne MOU"

Seems your the babbling fool that has a little trouble spelling small words. Maybe have your lover Chip proof read for you.

 

[Pi brat]

That's some funny stuff there, Breeze. There are passengers who would like to get from Philly to Ft Lauderdale if their plane was airworthy and not on blocks.
Rotate, V1. 😉

That's all you've got, isn't it asshole?

 

[traderjake]

Seems your the babbling fool that has a little trouble spelling small words.

 
It's "you're" not "your".
 
LMAO

 

[end_of_alpa]

What has happened to Chip's astute analysis lately?

 

[end_of_alpa]

American Airlines latest new hire direct entry Captain:

Teen becomes youngest pilot to complete solo trip around the world
http://kdvr.com/2014/07/15/teen-becomes-youngest-pilot-to-complete-solo-trip-around-the-world/
 
Seniority is whatever pays the cheapest for the Company.

 

[snapthis]

So the West is trying to delay... 🙂

Well, this might be a clue:

USAPA is a private, unincorporated association operating as a labor organization. USAPA is a “representative” as defined by the RLA, 45 U.S.C. § 151 (Sixth), and is the certified collective bargaining representative of the pilots of US Airways.


This is the description of what usapa becomes when it is no longer a collective bargaining agent:


USAPA is a private, unincorporated association. PERIOD


After the APA takes over, usapa will be governed by the laws of the State of North Carolina. There are pretty strict rules governing the use of any money collected while they were a CBA, and most of that money will need to be returned.

Clue #2

The NMB has made the following ruling last month:

"This determination addresses the application filed by the CWA/IBT
Association (Association). The Association requests that the National Mediation
Board (NMB or Board) investigate whether American Airlines Inc. (American)
and US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) (collectively the Carriers or the New
American) are operating as a single transportation system.
The investigation establishes that American and US Airways constitute a
single transportation system."

Goodbye USAPA, hello APA

 

[Phoenix]

Well, this might be a clue:
USAPA is a private, unincorporated association operating as a labor organization. USAPA is a “representative” as defined by the RLA, 45 U.S.C. § 151 (Sixth), and is the certified collective bargaining representative of the pilots of US Airways.
This is the description of what usapa becomes when it is no longer a collective bargaining agent:
USAPA is a private, unincorporated association. PERIOD
After the APA takes over, usapa will be governed by the laws of the State of North Carolina. There are pretty strict rules governing the use of any money collected while they were a CBA, and most of that money will need to be returned.
Clue #2
The NMB has made the following ruling last month:
"This determination addresses the application filed by the CWA/IBT
Association (Association). The Association requests that the National Mediation
Board (NMB or Board) investigate whether American Airlines Inc. (American)
and US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) (collectively the Carriers or the New
American) are operating as a single transportation system.
The investigation establishes that American and US Airways constitute a
single transportation system."
Goodbye USAPA, hello APA

The APA will give you the Nic. Promise. Just send your money to them. Do it today!! Don't delay!!

 

[Pi brat]

Oh give me a break #### , would you? I'm pretty sure the NTSB will have a similar finding to what the training dept already knows.

 
It's funny how some west pilots scream and whine about fairness, justice and doing the right thing, but only follow the rules when it suits them.

 

[Pi brat]

 

 

Well, this might be a clue:

USAPA is a private, unincorporated association operating as a labor organization. USAPA is a “representative” as defined by the RLA, 45 U.S.C. § 151 (Sixth), and is the certified collective bargaining representative of the pilots of US Airways.


This is the description of what usapa becomes when it is no longer a collective bargaining agent:


USAPA is a private, unincorporated association. PERIOD


After the APA takes over, usapa will be governed by the laws of the State of North Carolina. There are pretty strict rules governing the use of any money collected while they were a CBA, and most of that money will need to be returned.

Clue #2

The NMB has made the following ruling last month:

"This determination addresses the application filed by the CWA/IBT
Association (Association). The Association requests that the National Mediation
Board (NMB or Board) investigate whether American Airlines Inc. (American)
and US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) (collectively the Carriers or the New
American) are operating as a single transportation system.
The investigation establishes that American and US Airways constitute a
single transportation system."

Goodbye USAPA, hello APA

So the short version is  you know that you won't win the appeal so you are hoping that there is no USAPA left. Got it. Let's see it that strategy works any better than your others.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well, this might be a clue:

USAPA is a private, unincorporated association operating as a labor organization. USAPA is a “representative” as defined by the RLA, 45 U.S.C. § 151 (Sixth), and is the certified collective bargaining representative of the pilots of US Airways.


This is the description of what usapa becomes when it is no longer a collective bargaining agent:


USAPA is a private, unincorporated association. PERIOD


After the APA takes over, usapa will be governed by the laws of the State of North Carolina. There are pretty strict rules governing the use of any money collected while they were a CBA, and most of that money will need to be returned.

Clue #2

The NMB has made the following ruling last month:

"This determination addresses the application filed by the CWA/IBT
Association (Association). The Association requests that the National Mediation
Board (NMB or Board) investigate whether American Airlines Inc. (American)
and US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) (collectively the Carriers or the New
American) are operating as a single transportation system.
The investigation establishes that American and US Airways constitute a
single transportation system."

Goodbye USAPA, hello APA

USAPA is not NECESSARILY governed by the laws of North Carolina, but even if they are, that SOMEHOW you'll be able to circumvent the LAWS of the Constitution and Bylaws for dissolution (what you're planning to do is SUE for DISSOLUTION under the Constitution) will not carry the day because the four officers of the union are the trustees and you would have to PROVE some kind of malfeasance on their part before you could even penalize them for their duties.  USAPA (as are ALL labor unions) are NON-PROFIT associations like Leonidas LLC is a non-profit LLC.  BOTH entities carry the same weight in the court of law in North Carolina.  You can read about it here:
http://www.brookspierce.com/media/publication/19_Unincorporated%20Associations.pdf

 

[snapthis]

It's funny how some west pilots scream and whine about fairness, justice and doing the right thing, but only follow the rules when it suits them.

How about coming out to Phoenix defend USAPA's version of fairness imposed on West pilots on July 21st.....

Now that would be funny.

Phoenix Domicile Update

July 8, 2014
PHX Domicile Meeting Notice

Attention PHX Pilots of both USAPA and APA,

We will be conducting a PHX Domicile Meeting on Monday, July 21, at the Phoenix DoubleTree Airport, from 1000-1400.

We are still working on the Agenda, but here is the tentative list of speakers and Agenda items.

USAPA Officers Gary Hummel, Steve Smyser, Rob Streble
APA
NAC Chairman Dean Colello and NAC member Ken Holmes, with APA Negotiator David Brown (and Benefits Manager Sherry Taylor)
USAPA FAR 117 Specialist and Scheduling Chairman Les Edwards
USAPA Safety Committee (Chairman Don Underwood)
USAPA PBS/Pairing Subject Matter Expert Dennis Glauner
USAPA General Counsel Brian ODwyer
P4P Committee Members (Tentative)
Agenda: Reports from Domicile Representatives, Q&A, Domicile Resolutions
American Airlines Senior Flight Operations and Flight Operations Managers have been invited, and as of now, it seems that scheduling conflicts may not allow them to attend.


USAPA Merger Counsel Pat Szymanski has been invited, and as of now, we have no commitment.


Hope to see you there,


John, Dave and Eric

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well, this might be a clue:

USAPA is a private, unincorporated association operating as a labor organization. USAPA is a “representative” as defined by the RLA, 45 U.S.C. § 151 (Sixth), and is the certified collective bargaining representative of the pilots of US Airways.


This is the description of what usapa becomes when it is no longer a collective bargaining agent:


USAPA is a private, unincorporated association. PERIOD


After the APA takes over, usapa will be governed by the laws of the State of North Carolina. There are pretty strict rules governing the use of any money collected while they were a CBA, and most of that money will need to be returned.

Clue #2

The NMB has made the following ruling last month:

"This determination addresses the application filed by the CWA/IBT
Association (Association). The Association requests that the National Mediation
Board (NMB or Board) investigate whether American Airlines Inc. (American)
and US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) (collectively the Carriers or the New
American) are operating as a single transportation system.
The investigation establishes that American and US Airways constitute a
single transportation system."

Goodbye USAPA, hello APA

 

National Unions
National unions are composed of the various local unions that they have chartered. Some unions have locals in Canada and therefore call themselves international unions. However, the termsinternational union and national union are generally used interchangeably.
As with local unions, the administrative structures of national unions vary considerably in complexity. One important factor is the size of the union: larger unions are structurally more complex. Structural complexity also differs between craft and industrial unions. Craft unions tend be smaller organizations that feature a decentralized decision-making structure. With craft unions, contracts usually have a limited geographical scope and are negotiated by local unions. The parent union can be of significant assistance, however. The national union pools the resources of local unions, thus helping out with things such as strike funds, and it may also provide research services and serve as the local union's voice in political matters at the national and state levels. In general, there are few intermediate units between the national office and the local craft unions. National officers, elected periodically, generally work on a full-time basis for the union. Such unions also hold national conventions, most often every couple of years. The officers of the national union are accountable to the convention, much as the officers of a local are accountable to membership meetings.
National industrial unions are typically more complex. They tend to be larger and have a more heterogeneous membership than craft unions (both in terms of skills and demographic traits). Although there are exceptions, contracts in industrial unions tend to be negotiated primarily by staff members from the national office. In many cases, the bargaining unit will include all locals from a particular company (across the entire country). Even if contracts are negotiated by locals, representatives from the national union will often participate in talks to assure that the contract conforms to patterns established by the national organization.
As with craft unions, national unions have periodic conventions and national officers. Depending on the union, the national officers may be elected directly by rank-and-file members or by some other body (such as convention delegates). National unions generally have a substantial paid staff who provide a variety of different services (e.g., research, legal representation, organizing new members, negotiating contracts, and servicing locals). National unions may also have one or more layers of hierarchy between the local unions and the national offices. For example, in the case of the UAW, there are different divisions responsible for the major industries in which that union represents workers. Within the automobile industry, there are divisions that correspond to each of the major manufacturers. There are other divisions that deal with the needs of special groups within the union (such as minority workers and skilled craft workers). Consequently, the structures of large industrial unions are often as complex as the companies with which they deal.
 
http://definitions.uslegal.com/l/labor-unions/

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well, this might be a clue:

USAPA is a private, unincorporated association operating as a labor organization. USAPA is a “representative” as defined by the RLA, 45 U.S.C. § 151 (Sixth), and is the certified collective bargaining representative of the pilots of US Airways.


This is the description of what usapa becomes when it is no longer a collective bargaining agent:


USAPA is a private, unincorporated association. PERIOD


After the APA takes over, usapa will be governed by the laws of the State of North Carolina. There are pretty strict rules governing the use of any money collected while they were a CBA, and most of that money will need to be returned.

Clue #2

The NMB has made the following ruling last month:

"This determination addresses the application filed by the CWA/IBT
Association (Association). The Association requests that the National Mediation
Board (NMB or Board) investigate whether American Airlines Inc. (American)
and US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) (collectively the Carriers or the New
American) are operating as a single transportation system.
The investigation establishes that American and US Airways constitute a
single transportation system."

Goodbye USAPA, hello APA

 
[1] Association - Labor Relations - Unions - Treasury Funds. While the majority of the members of a voluntary association can select between two or more purposes for which funds of the association may be lawfully used, the majority cannot, against the will of the minority, lawfully divert such funds for uses other than those permitted by the constitution and laws of the association.
[2] Contracts - Defenses - Frustration of Purposes. The "frustration of purpose" doctrine is not available to relieve a party from the provisions of a contract, where such party is himself deliberately responsible for the contract's purposes being frustrated.
[3] Labor Relations - Unions - Dissolution of Local - Treasury Funds. Contractual provisions between a local union and the international union are not void as against public policy where they provide for the reversion of the local union's treasury funds to the international union upon dissolution of the local.
 
http://courts.mrsc.org/mc/courts/zsupreme/066wn2d/066wn2d0629.htm

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well, this might be a clue:

USAPA is a private, unincorporated association operating as a labor organization. USAPA is a “representative” as defined by the RLA, 45 U.S.C. § 151 (Sixth), and is the certified collective bargaining representative of the pilots of US Airways.


This is the description of what usapa becomes when it is no longer a collective bargaining agent:


USAPA is a private, unincorporated association. PERIOD


After the APA takes over, usapa will be governed by the laws of the State of North Carolina. There are pretty strict rules governing the use of any money collected while they were a CBA, and most of that money will need to be returned.

Clue #2

The NMB has made the following ruling last month:

"This determination addresses the application filed by the CWA/IBT
Association (Association). The Association requests that the National Mediation
Board (NMB or Board) investigate whether American Airlines Inc. (American)
and US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) (collectively the Carriers or the New
American) are operating as a single transportation system.
The investigation establishes that American and US Airways constitute a
single transportation system."

Goodbye USAPA, hello APA

 
Here is what the Court is going to look at, Snap, along with the THREE court cases Leondas LLC have ALREADY LOST 
 
 
SECTION 3. DURATION AND/OR DISSOLUTION
 
A. The duration of USAPA shall be perpetual, or until dissolved as provided for in this Constitution and Bylaws. Subject to the deferral provisions of paragraphs B. and C. of this section, in the event of dissolution of the Association, the officers of USAPA shall act as agents for the membership and dispose of all of the physical assets of the Association by suitable means. All assets shall be liquidated and, less any indebtedness, shall then be prorated to the active members in good standing of USAPA as of the time of such dissolution in proportion to the monies paid by each such member in the twelve (12) months immediately preceding dissolution.
 
B. Dissolution of the Association may be affected through a representation vote conducted by the National Mediation Board (NMB) in accordance with the Railway Labor Act (RLA) that results in the Association’s certification being extinguished or pursuant to a two-thirds vote of the Board of Pilot Representatives subsequently ratified in accordance with Article XI, Paragraph D. of this Constitution and Bylaws. In either case, the commencement of dissolution is subject to the deferral provisions of C. of this section.
 
C. Within three (3) business days of either the NMB decision or membership vote triggering dissolution (hereinafter, the “commencement date”), the National Officers shall make a determination as to whether existing circumstances present, or may present in the future, the need for collective legal action on behalf of the pilot group, including, but not limited to, representation in seniority integration proceedings. In the event the majority of the National Officers determine that such a need exists, the dissolution commencement date will be deferred until, in the judgment of a majority of the National Officers, the need for collective legal representation no longer exists. If, in the judgment of a majority of the National Officers, available funds exceed the expected costs of collective legal representation, the excess monies may be distributed in accordance with paragraph A of this section. The President shall break any tie votes among the National Officers.
 
D. Notwithstanding any other provision in the Constitution and Bylaws, the full operating authority of USAPA shall reside with the National Officers as of the dissolution commencement date indicated in Paragraph A of this section. The President or the Acting President shall appoint an individual who was an active member as of the commencement date to fill any vacancies arising among the National Officers after the commencement date.

 

[end_of_alpa]

SECTION 3. DURATION AND/OR DISSOLUTION
 
A. The duration of USAPA shall be perpetual, or until dissolved as provided for in this Constitution and Bylaws. Subject to the deferral provisions of paragraphs B. and C. of this section, in the event of dissolution of the Association, the officers of USAPA shall act as agents for the membership and dispose of all of the physical assets of the Association by suitable means. All assets shall be liquidated and, less any indebtedness, shall then be prorated to the active members in good standing of USAPA as of the time of such dissolution in proportion to the monies paid by each such member in the twelve (12) months immediately preceding dissolution.
 
B. Dissolution of the Association may be affected through a representation vote conducted by the National Mediation Board (NMB) in accordance with the Railway Labor Act (RLA) that results in the Association’s certification being extinguished or pursuant to a two-thirds vote of the Board of Pilot Representatives subsequently ratified in accordance with Article XI, Paragraph D. of this Constitution and Bylaws. In either case, the commencement of dissolution is subject to the deferral provisions of C. of this section.
 
C. Within three (3) business days of either the NMB decision or membership vote triggering dissolution (hereinafter, the “commencement date”), the National Officers shall make a determination as to whether existing circumstances present, or may present in the future, the need for collective legal action on behalf of the pilot group, including, but not limited to, representation in seniority integration proceedings. In the event the majority of the National Officers determine that such a need exists, the dissolution commencement date will be deferred until, in the judgment of a majority of the National Officers, the need for collective legal representation no longer exists. If, in the judgment of a majority of the National Officers, available funds exceed the expected costs of collective legal representation, the excess monies may be distributed in accordance with paragraph A of this section. The President shall break any tie votes among the National Officers.
 
D. Notwithstanding any other provision in the Constitution and Bylaws, the full operating authority of USAPA shall reside with the National Officers as of the dissolution commencement date indicated in Paragraph A of this section. The President or the Acting President shall appoint an individual who was an active member as of the commencement date to fill any vacancies arising among the National Officers after the commencement date.
 
Short version Snap.....the Courts WILL AND HAVE to look at the terms of the Constitution and Bylaws.  Leonidas LLC will LOSE especially when USAPA PROVES the bad faith of said Leonidas officers and under the "unclean hands" doctrine.  Look it up.