2014 Pilot Discussion
- Thread starter Falcon
- Start date
- Status
luvthe9
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2002
- Messages
- 9,464
- Reaction score
- 14,119
One of the four Leonidas LLC directors is apparently now employed as an American Airlines pilot;\Metroyet said:
Having Kevin Horner associated in any way with this DFR only hurts the effort. How can he adequately meet the fiduciary requirements to fairly represent the class? Our sources have told us that Kevin Horner’s current union, the APA, is furious with him for his participation in a DFR suit against another union.
flyingskier
Advanced
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2004
- Messages
- 105
- Reaction score
- 212
Did you get money back when ALPA was no longer your union? Did anyone from ALPA go to jail?Metroyet said:
Pure hyperbole Metro. Nice try.
Skier
Phoenix
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2003
- Messages
- 8,584
- Reaction score
- 7,430
I grant you that the APA can invite anyone they want to an arbitration panel, much like the company was free to invite three groups up to the mahogany desk at HQ (including the famed West Merger Committe) for the Protocol Agreement discussions...Metroyet said:
I notice, just like the company could not compel participation nor conduct any business, so also an arbitration panel cannot compel participation nor conduct any business among parties that do not submit.
You have noticed that the NMB has issued a list of arbitrators pursuant to MB, and the APA has been invited to commence MB arbitration... Have you not?
Lesson for today: arbitrators have no authority but that which is granted to them, by willing participants or by court order. SCS will not change that fact one bit, but it may complicate the legal filings and cause more delay in the courts. 😀
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- Joined
- May 18, 2003
- Messages
- 8,175
- Reaction score
- 1,539
USAPA is now dead in the water and APA will likely have nothing to do with our dishonest union until after SCS.
According to APA, “USAPA's abject failure to communicate these facts erodes the very foundation of trust necessary for any further negotiations. It is now apparent to us, just as it was to Judge Silver in the Addington v. USAPA DFR decision, that USAPA is using these tactics, including reneging on its bargain under the MOU and litigating the McCaskill-Bond process in court, with the express goal of delaying the NMB single-carrier finding.”
It’s now clear APA intends to wait for SCS and Judge Howell’s decision before moving forward because of USAPA’s latest dishonest actions including to attempt to violate the pilot’s contract again. And, APA’s Seniority Integration Update: The Facts, will certainly influence the NMB and District Court.
What I just don’t get is how East pilots continue to support a group of people who lack transparency, mislead others, and are dishonest. I can’t do that even if it results in personal financial loss and pain. Unfortunately, many of our colleagues do not feel the same way.
Moreover, ALPA’s advisors, legal team, E&FA Department, and professional negotiators are salaried employees. USAPA’s advisors are contractors who have a retainer and charge billable hours. USAPA’s advisors only get paid if they create a legal strategy, whether it violates judicial estoppel or not, that the BPR desires or the advisors will not get paid. Therefore, I have little faith in USAPA’s advisors who obviously have their own motive.
According to APA, “USAPA's abject failure to communicate these facts erodes the very foundation of trust necessary for any further negotiations. It is now apparent to us, just as it was to Judge Silver in the Addington v. USAPA DFR decision, that USAPA is using these tactics, including reneging on its bargain under the MOU and litigating the McCaskill-Bond process in court, with the express goal of delaying the NMB single-carrier finding.”
It’s now clear APA intends to wait for SCS and Judge Howell’s decision before moving forward because of USAPA’s latest dishonest actions including to attempt to violate the pilot’s contract again. And, APA’s Seniority Integration Update: The Facts, will certainly influence the NMB and District Court.
What I just don’t get is how East pilots continue to support a group of people who lack transparency, mislead others, and are dishonest. I can’t do that even if it results in personal financial loss and pain. Unfortunately, many of our colleagues do not feel the same way.
Moreover, ALPA’s advisors, legal team, E&FA Department, and professional negotiators are salaried employees. USAPA’s advisors are contractors who have a retainer and charge billable hours. USAPA’s advisors only get paid if they create a legal strategy, whether it violates judicial estoppel or not, that the BPR desires or the advisors will not get paid. Therefore, I have little faith in USAPA’s advisors who obviously have their own motive.
USA320Pilot said:
Is far more than you can apparently even imagine....Such is the price paid for "living" solely within a narcissistic little bubble inside Fantasyland...
"It’s now clear APA intends to wait for SCS.." Seriously? You just now, this very moment, finally got that? Please don't confess to us all that you now even begin to realize that the APA's not truly been "negotiating" at all...? 😉 A supposed 140 IQ of yours, as relatively marginal as that is?...I'm now wondering if it exceeds even 100....? "It’s now clear APA intends to wait for SCS.." A broken street light should've figured that part out long ago....without even needed "intellectual" interaction with any stray dogs seeing fit to "mark" it...
Note to self: In any alternate universe where USA320's part of any mission; ensure that he's placed at least 10 miles in front of the rest of the flight, so's to allow him the chance to "catch up",...or at least productively serve as a decoy/target....
Freighterguynow
Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2004
- Messages
- 1,276
- Reaction score
- 1,207
Colder Snap, colder.snapthis said:
Go back to obsessing about Mike n Randy then you'd be getting somewhere.
The list that matters is the east seniority list. Unprecedented movement up. The 330 list is covered with age 64 crosses. Another massive bid will be coming, and all boats will rise.Metroyet said:
2011 hires into the 330. Deal with that APA in arbitration. Your choice. Please pay close attention to west decisions and where they are with them. PHX, narrow body island. LOA 93 special.
snapthis
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
- Messages
- 4,236
- Reaction score
- 6,907
JCBA negotiations to start July 8
July 8*Start Date for Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement Negotiations
APA and management have agreed to begin joint collective bargaining agreement negotiations on*Tuesday, July 8. Until the National Mediation Board issues a single-carrier finding, the time we spend bargaining*will not count*against the 30-day timetable specified by the*four-party memorandum of understanding*signed by APA, USAPA, American Airlines and US Airways.
As previously reported, the NMB has already issued a single-carrier determination for the passenger-service employees at American Airlines and US Airways. APA continues to await a response from the NMB to our application for single carrier. Once the NMB issues a single-carrier determination, the 30-day clock will start. At the end of the 30 days, the MOU stipulates that the "New American Airlines will offer final and binding interest arbitration."
APA has accelerated the pace of preparations for JCBA negotiations in recent weeks, with the board of directors approving two related motions during its special meeting last week.
One motion directs the APA president to "use all available Association resources to determine any and all differences in total pilot costs, whether contractual or not, between the pilots employed by Delta Air Lines and those pilots employed by the newly combined American Airlines. These findings will be reported to the APA Board of Directors not later than the July 2014 special board of directors meeting. This aggregate cost comparison shall attempt to include and identify any recent amendments to each pilot group's working agreements made in response to FAR 117 changes. The President may include similar comparisons to other carriers as he deems appropriate."
The other motion stipulates that "the APA Board of Directors directs the APA Negotiating Committee to provide the APA Board of Directors with a confidential weekly written JCBA synopsis which shall include specific CBA sections discussed, progress report and timeline, immediate feedback from associated Committee Chairmen, and last positions of APA and management. This synopsis will commence immediately concerning all JCBA communications and negotiations."
During the Section 1113 negotiations in bankruptcy, APA and management identified numerous low-cost and cost-neutral items that we set aside to deal with more pressing business. We plan to address that unfinished business during the JCBA process, along with tackling more challenging issues.
The JCBA negotiations will differ from traditional Section 6 bargaining in one key respect: the "final and binding" arbitration clause that management can invoke if we're unable to reach a negotiated settlement within a specified timeline. If we don't reach a mutual agreement, the MOU sets limits on the arbitrator's award: "The arbitrator's award specifically shall adhere to the economic terms of the MTA and shall not change the MTA's Scope terms."
That noted, our airline has already established itself as a formidable competitor, recently setting new record highs in quarterly profits, yield and passenger unit revenue. According to a recent company presentation, "American's pretax margin is already in line with peers," with "anticipated upside synergy just beginning." Various airline analysts include AAL among their "best/top picks" in airline stocks, reflecting widespread confidence in the airline's future prospects. In other words, things change.
Given American Airlines' competitive position, it is our firm view that meaningful improvements to our current collective bargaining agreement — an agreement reached under duress during Chapter 11 bankruptcy — must be on the negotiating table. We look forward to a healthy bargaining dialogue with the new management team that reflects the dramatically improved state of American Airlines and the industry itself.
July 8*Start Date for Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement Negotiations
APA and management have agreed to begin joint collective bargaining agreement negotiations on*Tuesday, July 8. Until the National Mediation Board issues a single-carrier finding, the time we spend bargaining*will not count*against the 30-day timetable specified by the*four-party memorandum of understanding*signed by APA, USAPA, American Airlines and US Airways.
As previously reported, the NMB has already issued a single-carrier determination for the passenger-service employees at American Airlines and US Airways. APA continues to await a response from the NMB to our application for single carrier. Once the NMB issues a single-carrier determination, the 30-day clock will start. At the end of the 30 days, the MOU stipulates that the "New American Airlines will offer final and binding interest arbitration."
APA has accelerated the pace of preparations for JCBA negotiations in recent weeks, with the board of directors approving two related motions during its special meeting last week.
One motion directs the APA president to "use all available Association resources to determine any and all differences in total pilot costs, whether contractual or not, between the pilots employed by Delta Air Lines and those pilots employed by the newly combined American Airlines. These findings will be reported to the APA Board of Directors not later than the July 2014 special board of directors meeting. This aggregate cost comparison shall attempt to include and identify any recent amendments to each pilot group's working agreements made in response to FAR 117 changes. The President may include similar comparisons to other carriers as he deems appropriate."
The other motion stipulates that "the APA Board of Directors directs the APA Negotiating Committee to provide the APA Board of Directors with a confidential weekly written JCBA synopsis which shall include specific CBA sections discussed, progress report and timeline, immediate feedback from associated Committee Chairmen, and last positions of APA and management. This synopsis will commence immediately concerning all JCBA communications and negotiations."
During the Section 1113 negotiations in bankruptcy, APA and management identified numerous low-cost and cost-neutral items that we set aside to deal with more pressing business. We plan to address that unfinished business during the JCBA process, along with tackling more challenging issues.
The JCBA negotiations will differ from traditional Section 6 bargaining in one key respect: the "final and binding" arbitration clause that management can invoke if we're unable to reach a negotiated settlement within a specified timeline. If we don't reach a mutual agreement, the MOU sets limits on the arbitrator's award: "The arbitrator's award specifically shall adhere to the economic terms of the MTA and shall not change the MTA's Scope terms."
That noted, our airline has already established itself as a formidable competitor, recently setting new record highs in quarterly profits, yield and passenger unit revenue. According to a recent company presentation, "American's pretax margin is already in line with peers," with "anticipated upside synergy just beginning." Various airline analysts include AAL among their "best/top picks" in airline stocks, reflecting widespread confidence in the airline's future prospects. In other words, things change.
Given American Airlines' competitive position, it is our firm view that meaningful improvements to our current collective bargaining agreement — an agreement reached under duress during Chapter 11 bankruptcy — must be on the negotiating table. We look forward to a healthy bargaining dialogue with the new management team that reflects the dramatically improved state of American Airlines and the industry itself.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- Joined
- May 18, 2003
- Messages
- 8,175
- Reaction score
- 1,539
snapthis said:
In APA's Seniority Integration Protocol Update, APA said, "USAPA's abject failure to communicate these facts erodes the very foundation of trust necessary for any further negotiations."
APA's Update did not mention USAPA. It's USAPA's abject failure to communicate the facts that not only has affected the PA, but now possibly JCBA discussions too. It's clear USAPA's desire to remain relevant post SCS and their desire to virtually staple 85% of the West pilots to the pre M-B ISL arbitration has now placed US Airways' pilots on the outside looking in. And, US Airways' pilots were warned about this, but once again the line pilots are on the losing end to once again to the Demagogues' tactics.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
