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2014 Pilot Discussion

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traderjake said:
 
No, I mean the Captain who was in my new hire class and turned 65 this year.
I C.....however it's like SLI, not everyone is gonna be happy with the results regardless of how the final list turns out. Some people are gonna have the bad luck of falling through the cracks. Just look at how many Captains turned 60 just before the age 65 rule came out.
 
Had we gotten off LOA93 because we accepted the NIC, chances are he would have been an FO the rest of his career......and what was that Kirby proposal??? A small increase in pay for loss of seniority? 
 
Ya gotta look at the big picture and how it affects the whole pilot group. (unionism) I will probably retire in the 330 right seat, but with the NIC, I would retire in the right seat of the 320, quite a pay cut.
 
I believe that this roller coaster career we have comes down to the luck of the draw, with losers and winners. The best play that we, as pilots, can make is to stick together for the good of the whole group.
 
Sorry for your friend.....I am probably right there with him. But I still very much respect what the East pilot group did as a whole.
 
breeze
 
traderjake said:
You should try talking some the Captain's who are having to retire now.
Not to get into a pissing match with any of our good captains, but you mean our captains that have been captains since 1983 to 1985 time frame?
 
mrbreeze said:
I have been impressed with the solidarity of the East pilots. Not only did the senior pilots stick it out in the trenches for the junior pilots in this senseless battle, but even with all East pilots being stuck on LOA93, Cpts and FOs alike donated over $27,000 in 3 years to Rebecca's fight against Diabetes, even though many were struggling financially. 
 
The only way to describe that is the highest integrity that there is and caring about the East family. (and the West claims that there is no integrity within the East group). Meanwhile, their definition of integrity is that they screw another pilot out of 14 yrs on the job. Personally, that is only greed (opposite of integrity). Having said that, several West pilots made donations and helped. Now, that was impressive, and I also consider you a brother/sister in this whole situation.
 
So to all my colleagues, Rebecca and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts. You guys are the best!
 
Peace, my brothers and sisters,
breeze
. Glad we could help out that's more important than any of this crap, myself and quite a few others helped out a westie years ago, however have not heard how she is doing, I think her name was Megan Kelly, but really not sure, does that name ring a bell to anyone.
 
Claxon said:
ALPA failed to correct an award that fell far out of bounds of fairness. Of course you, the Mighty Oracle, did not serve 17 yrs never furloughed and get paired with a new hire.
Nobody respects you whatsoever. Nobody.
You and Traitor are miserable Benedict Arnolds.
This should be posted everyday.
 
traderjake said:
What a dimwit, how's that East West DOH seniority list coming?
 
Too bad you wasted so many of the best earning years of your career on LOA 93 not to mention 50 vacation days.
Hey, you voted for LOA93, we have DOH now how many numbers have you moved up, just because you are afraid to upgrade you should nit take it out on your coworkers, myself, I'm happy to help the junior guys always have backed them 110%, unlike you who stabs them in the back.
 
"Kasher will pay" should be taped to your bathroom mirror to remind you what a dimwit you are. 
 
The PIT Reps recommended in writing to vote against LOA 93 because there was no snapback.
 
Carry on with your mindless babble.
 
traderjake said:

 
Carry on with your mindless babble.
. No, that job belongs to the the two biggest morons in the company, you and your boyfriend Munn, do you two buddy bid I'm sure no one else wants to fly with either of you.

Claxon hit it just right!!
 
How Do the UEL LOA 93 & PA Negotiations Compare?
 
When thinking about this week's APA and USAPA PA agreement public comments it occurred to me there are a lot of comparisons to how the AAA MEC RC4/5 handled LOA 93 negotiations and how USAPA's UELs are handling PA negotiatons.

In LOA 93 negotiations the ALPA RC4/5 MEC demanded US Airways met the union's requirements and the UELs just said "no" to management's position. There were virtually no give-and-take negotiations and every MEC decision was made by "roll call" vote, which caused the pilots to give the company a concession much greater than the company's opening offer or "ask." Throughout this process the pilots did not know what was being negotiated because the UELs kept the discussions confidential and in "closed session" displaying no transparency. To get a deal management went directly to the pilots with public information when the company was close to liquidation. 

Lets fast forward. 

USAPA's BPR has kept all PA, UMTA, GA, and lawsuit settlement information in "closed session." Once again there is zero union transparency under the guise of strategy and the pilots have no idea what USAPA is proposing to APA. None, zada, zilch! Meanwhile, it has become apparent that USAPA is only providing demands to both AAG and APA, but the two strategic partners now view UAPA as irrelevant. 

In response APA has begun negotiating directly with US Airways' pilots and each APA offer gets worse and worse for US Airways' pilots. How do we know this? First, APA let its initial draft PA proposal become an exhibit to US Airways' Motion to Reconsider. Next, at virtually the same time the NMB made its CWA/IBT SCC determination, APA published on their website a worse PA offer. This was certainly done to get the US Airways pilot's attention to display the risks of not accepting a 3-way ISL arbitration per APA's initial draft PA pass. 

In response what did USAPA do? Nothing, but say "no." And, just like with LOA 93 negotiations there are no meaningful PA negotiations occurring because once again all the UELs know is "how to demand" and to just say "no."

To highlight the comparison between UEL LOA 93 and PA negotiations earlier this week USAPA's MC said, "Our Merger Counsel sent our proposals for Protocol, Union Transition, and Global Settlement Agreements to APA Counsel on April 29. This week’s APA proposal came to us unannounced, with no prior communication to our Merger Counsel. Needless to say, we were surprised to see the APA’s proposal, given APA's recent refusal to negotiate, and after we were told there would be no counterproposal. Contrary to what you may have heard from APA communications, this APA Protocol Agreement proposal does not incorporate the compromises we offered back on April 29. In fact, the APA proposal rejects virtually every item we included in our April 29 proposal, which protected your McCaskill-Bond rights, while also resolving the impasse in the negotiations."

"The APA posted its proposal on the web just hours after providing it to us, after agreeing to keep protocol negotiations confidential. We fully appreciate the need for appropriate transparency, but productive negotiations do not happen on the internet. While we intend to honor the confidentiality of protocol negotiations we agreed to, you should know our compromise proposal was a reasonable solution to the impasse. We cannot accept a proposal that separates us from our M-B rights and effective representation in the SLI process," the MC noted.

Here's the deal.

Either USAPA begs APA and AAG to resurrect APA and AAG's initial PA that authorizes a 3-way ISL arbitration, if required or in short order "A finding of SCS will quickly eliminate USAPA’s role as our collective bargaining agent (CBA), and thereafter it will be legally barred from representing anyone. The Allied Pilots Association (APA) will become the CBA for all American Airlines pilots, just as USAPA became the CBA for all US Airways pilots when it was certified by the NMB."

How will this turn out? USAPA will just say "no" again and let the NMB make a SCC determination and Court decide the petitions in front of the bench. And, instead of taking responsibility the UELs have once punted so they can point the finger and blame at others.

What will likely happen? APA will simply wait for the NMB to designate APA the union for all New American pilots where Judge Silver "unequivocally held that USAPA cannot participate once it is no longer the certified bargaining agent. " And, APA and AAG will wait for Judge Howard to provide AAG and APA the authority to proceed with a 3-way ISL arbitration, if held, regardless of USAPA's desire.
 
USA320Pilot said:
How Do the UEL LOA 93 & PA Negotiations Compare?
 
When thinking about this week's APA and USAPA PA agreement public comments it occurred to me there are a lot of comparisons to how the AAA MEC RC4/5 handled LOA 93 negotiations and how USAPA's UELs are handling PA negotiatons.[/size]In LOA 93 negotiations the ALPA RC4/5 MEC demanded US Airways met the union's requirements and the UELs just said "no" to management's position. There were virtually no give-and-take negotiations and every MEC decision was made by "roll call" vote, which caused the pilots to give the company a concession much greater than the company's opening offer or "ask." Throughout this process the pilots did not know what was being negotiated because the UELs kept the discussions confidential and in "closed session" displaying no transparency. To get a deal management went directly to the pilots with public information when the company was close to liquidation. [/size]Lets fast forward. [/size]USAPA's BPR has kept all PA, UMTA, GA, and lawsuit settlement information in "closed session." Once again there is zero union transparency under the guise of strategy and the pilots have no idea what USAPA is proposing to APA. None, zada, zilch! Meanwhile, it has become apparent that USAPA is only providing demands to both AAG and APA, but the two strategic partners now view UAPA as irrelevant. [/size]In response APA has begun negotiating directly with US Airways' pilots and each APA offer gets worse and worse for US Airways' pilots. How do we know this? First, APA let its initial draft PA proposal become an exhibit to US Airways' Motion to Reconsider. Next, at virtually the same time the NMB made its CWA/IBT SCC determination, APA published on their website a worse PA offer. This was certainly done to get the US Airways pilot's attention to display the risks of not accepting a 3-way ISL arbitration per APA's initial draft PA pass. [/size]In response what did USAPA do? Nothing, but say "no." And, just like with LOA 93 negotiations there are no meaningful PA negotiations occurring because once again all the UELs know is "how to demand" and to just say "no."[/size]To highlight the comparison between UEL LOA 93 and PA negotiations earlier this week USAPA's MC said, "Our Merger Counsel sent our proposals for Protocol, Union Transition, and Global Settlement Agreements to APA Counsel on April 29. This week’s APA proposal came to us unannounced, with no prior communication to our Merger Counsel. Needless to say, we were surprised to see the APA’s proposal, given APA's recent refusal to negotiate, and after we were told there would be no counterproposal. Contrary to what you may have heard from APA communications, this APA Protocol Agreement proposal does not incorporate the compromises we offered back on April 29. In fact, the APA proposal rejects virtually every item we included in our April 29 proposal, which protected your McCaskill-Bond rights, while also resolving the impasse in the negotiations."[/size]"The APA posted its proposal on the web just hours after providing it to us, after agreeing to keep protocol negotiations confidential. We fully appreciate the need for appropriate transparency, but productive negotiations do not happen on the internet. While we intend to honor the confidentiality of protocol negotiations we agreed to, you should know our compromise proposal was a reasonable solution to the impasse. We cannot accept a proposal that separates us from our M-B rights and effective representation in the SLI process," the MC noted.[/size]Here's the deal.[/size]Either USAPA begs APA and AAG to resurrect APA and AAG's initial PA that authorizes a 3-way ISL arbitration, if required or in short order "A finding of SCS will quickly eliminate USAPA’s role as our collective bargaining agent (CBA), and thereafter it will be legally barred from representing anyone. The Allied Pilots Association (APA) will become the CBA for all American Airlines pilots, just as USAPA became the CBA for all US Airways pilots when it was certified by the NMB."[/size]How will this turn out? USAPA will just say "no" again and let the NMB make a SCC determination and Court decide the petitions in front of the bench. And, instead of taking responsibility the UELs have once punted so they can point the finger and blame at others.[/size]What will likely happen? APA will simply wait for the NMB to designate APA the union for all New American pilots where Judge Silver "unequivocally held that USAPA cannot participate once it is no longer the certified bargaining agent. " And, APA and AAG will wait for Judge Howard to provide AAG and APA the authority to proceed with a 3-way ISL arbitration, if held, regardless of USAPA's desire.[/size]
Munn is trying his best sell job on you. He used it on the hapless F/O s who had to endure his idiotic vitamin sell jobs.
He tried to sell hair jobs too. Labor relations is his newest hobby.
 
Claxon said:
ALPA failed to correct an award that fell far out of bounds of fairness. Of course you, the Mighty Oracle, did not serve 17 yrs never furloughed and get paired with a new hire.
Nobody respects you whatsoever. Nobody.
You and Traitor are miserable Benedict Arnolds.
The post of the day!!! And every day to come!
 
Claxon said:
Tony, Colin Powell is the correct spelling of the generals name.
I know how to spell Gen Colin Powell. You ever hear the term, io io off to work I go? That should give you a clue as I am typing on the iPhone and running out the door.

Give Cleery and Bratford my best. Correction, my backside. :lol:
 
USA320Pilot comments: I told you so (again). At least there are some things to look forward to -- SCC, a 1.45% pilot net pay increase, and a union who does not sue everybody in sight and then when the union loses more wasted money spent on fruitless appeals. Question. Do USAPA and their supporters ever get tired of losing over-and-over again?

Be careful, you might turn Cleery's world upside down. :lol:
 
USA320Pilot said:
What's interesting, no maybe embarrassing, is that many East pilots cannot honor an agreement if it results in financial or personal pain. That's truly what the Nicolau Award fight is all about. But, USAPA and its supporters have taken this situation too far with the unwavering effort to staple virtually the entire Phx-based pilot group to the bottom of USAPA's proposed East-West SL.
 
Furthermore, USAPA and their supporter's integrity has been clearly noted by a federal judge who said, "The Court has no doubt that–as is USAPA’s consistent practice–USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority. That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be allowed to participate."   
 
With the NMB's Single Carrier Certification (SCC) for the pilots on the immediate horizon (after reading the CWA/IBT NMB SCC determination) the US Airways pilot's union will no longer be permitted to promote an action that benefits a group of pilots at the expense of others.
 
As noted, what's an interesting display of UEL and hardcore USAPAian psychology is how the union's supporters attack the messenger versus the message. Why? They USAPAians cannot dispute the message or the facts.
It's truly a sad state, but interesting nonetheless, because the USAPAians and their supporters fear the messenger. Moving forward there are 3 compelling points:1. USAPA has brought on the Pyrrhic victory.2. USAPA = Judicial Estoppel, which = Pyrrhic Victory or a UJEPV.3. At least we know APA is taking US out of USAPA. Or APA = USAPA minus US.
 
Finally, with a NMB SCC pilot determination/District Court decisions pending I further believe things are going to heat up and the pilots will immediately obtain a 1.45% net pay increase in short-order.
Another amazing post. Do you read this BS before you hit enter? Do I need to post some more of your pro-USAPA, anti-Nic posts from 2007, you friggin hypocrite?

You talk about people shooting the messenger, but it's because the messenger is the village idiot.
 
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