2014 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

John Davis  secured a lump sum for himself, I thnk you're wrong about McKee. 
 
The attacks from the lunatic  "ALPA stole our pensions in the middle of the night" crowd begins in five... four...three....

 

[USA320Pilot]

What's interesting, no maybe embarrassing, is that many East pilots cannot honor an agreement if it results in financial or personal pain. That's truly what the Nicolau Award fight is all about. But, USAPA and its supporters have taken this situation too far with the unwavering effort to staple virtually the entire Phx-based pilot group to the bottom of USAPA's proposed East-West SL.
 
Furthermore, USAPA and their supporter's integrity has been clearly noted by a federal judge who said, "The Court has no doubt that–as is USAPA’s consistent practice–USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority. That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be allowed to participate."   
 
With the NMB's Single Carrier Certification (SCC) for the pilots on the immediate horizon (after reading the CWA/IBT NMB SCC determination) the US Airways pilot's union will no longer be permitted to promote an action that benefits a group of pilots at the expense of others.
 
As noted, what's an interesting display of UEL and hardcore USAPAian psychology is how the union's supporters attack the messenger versus the message. Why? They USAPAians cannot dispute the message or the facts.
It's truly a sad state, but interesting nonetheless, because the USAPAians and their supporters fear the messenger. 

Moving forward there are 3 compelling points:

1. USAPA has brought on the Pyrrhic victory.

2. USAPA = Judicial Estoppel, which = Pyrrhic Victory or a UJEPV.

3. At least we know APA is taking US out of USAPA. Or APA = USAPA minus US.
 
Finally, with a NMB SCC pilot determination/District Court decisions pending I further believe things are going to heat up and the pilots will immediately obtain a 1.45% net pay increase in short-order.

 

[AWE Dog]

Did Chip just post?

 

[nevergiveup]

What's interesting, no maybe embarrassing, is that many East pilots cannot honor an agreement if it results in financial or personal pain. That's truly what the Nicolau Award fight is all about. But, USAPA and its supporters have taken this situation too far with the unwavering effort to staple virtually the entire Phx-based pilot group to the bottom of USAPA's proposed East-West SL.
 
Furthermore, USAPA and their supporter's integrity has been clearly noted by a federal judge who said, "The Court has no doubt that–as is USAPA’s consistent practice–USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority. That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be allowed to participate."   
 
With the NMB's Single Carrier Certification (SCC) for the pilots on the immediate horizon (after reading the CWA/IBT NMB SCC determination) the US Airways pilot's union will no longer be permitted to promote an action that benefits a group of pilots at the expense of others.
 
As noted, what's an interesting display of UEL and hardcore USAPAian psychology is how the union's supporters attack the messenger versus the message. Why? They USAPAians cannot dispute the message or the facts.
It's truly a sad state, but interesting nonetheless, because the USAPAians and their supporters fear the messenger. 

Moving forward there are 3 compelling points:

1. USAPA has brought on the Pyrrhic victory.

2. USAPA = Judicial Estoppel, which = Pyrrhic Victory or a UJEPV.

3. At least we know APA is taking US out of USAPA. Or APA = USAPA minus US.
 
Finally, with a NMB SCC pilot determination/District Court decisions pending I further believe things are going to heat up and the pilots will immediately obtain a 1.45% net pay increase in short-order.

Let's go back to Egypt where at least we had food!

 

[traderjake]

Let's go back to Egypt where at least we had food!

 
Let's ignore what really happened so we can make the same mistakes again.

 

[cltrat]

Did Chip just post?

well loosely defined I suppose so

 

[Claxon]

What's interesting, no maybe embarrassing, is that many East pilots cannot honor an agreement if it results in financial or personal pain. That's truly what the Nicolau Award fight is all about. But, USAPA and its supporters have taken this situation too far with the unwavering effort to staple virtually the entire Phx-based pilot group to the bottom of USAPA's proposed East-West SL.
 
Furthermore, USAPA and their supporter's integrity has been clearly noted by a federal judge who said, "The Court has no doubt thatas is USAPAs consistent practiceUSAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority. That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be allowed to participate."   
 
With the NMB's Single Carrier Certification (SCC) for the pilots on the immediate horizon (after reading the CWA/IBT NMB SCC determination) the US Airways pilot's union will no longer be permitted to promote an action that benefits a group of pilots at the expense of others.
 
As noted, what's an interesting display of UEL and hardcore USAPAian psychology is how the union's supporters attack the messenger versus the message. Why? They USAPAians cannot dispute the message or the facts.
It's truly a sad state, but interesting nonetheless, because the USAPAians and their supporters fear the messenger. Moving forward there are 3 compelling points:1. USAPA has brought on the Pyrrhic victory.2. USAPA = Judicial Estoppel, which = Pyrrhic Victory or a UJEPV.3. At least we know APA is taking US out of USAPA. Or APA = USAPA minus US.
 
Finally, with a NMB SCC pilot determination/District Court decisions pending I further believe things are going to heat up and the pilots will immediately obtain a 1.45% net pay increase in short-order.

ALPA failed to correct an award that fell far out of bounds of fairness. Of course you, the Mighty Oracle, did not serve 17 yrs never furloughed and get paired with a new hire.
Nobody respects you whatsoever. Nobody.
You and Traitor are miserable Benedict Arnolds.

 

[nevergiveup]

What's interesting, no maybe embarrassing, is that many East pilots cannot honor an agreement if it results in financial or personal pain. That's truly what the Nicolau Award fight is all about. But, USAPA and its supporters have taken this situation too far with the unwavering effort to staple virtually the entire Phx-based pilot group to the bottom of USAPA's proposed East-West SL.
 
Furthermore, USAPA and their supporter's integrity has been clearly noted by a federal judge who said, "The Court has no doubt that–as is USAPA’s consistent practice–USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority. That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be allowed to participate."   
 
With the NMB's Single Carrier Certification (SCC) for the pilots on the immediate horizon (after reading the CWA/IBT NMB SCC determination) the US Airways pilot's union will no longer be permitted to promote an action that benefits a group of pilots at the expense of others.
 
As noted, what's an interesting display of UEL and hardcore USAPAian psychology is how the union's supporters attack the messenger versus the message. Why? They USAPAians cannot dispute the message or the facts.
It's truly a sad state, but interesting nonetheless, because the USAPAians and their supporters fear the messenger. 

Moving forward there are 3 compelling points:

1. USAPA has brought on the Pyrrhic victory.

2. USAPA = Judicial Estoppel, which = Pyrrhic Victory or a UJEPV.

3. At least we know APA is taking US out of USAPA. Or APA = USAPA minus US.
 
Finally, with a NMB SCC pilot determination/District Court decisions pending I further believe things are going to heat up and the pilots will immediately obtain a 1.45% net pay increase in short-order.

So you are saying the senior west pilots would be stapled and junior to 1999 pilots?  Wrong. Def of stapling needs to be reviewed.

 

[mrbreeze]

 
It's actually been going strong now for the last 9 years since the merger was announced.
 
And, it appears that it will continue on for at least the next 5 years.
 
Capture of the attrition is, was and always has been the PRIMARY goal of the east pilots.  Pay was always secondary, since attrition will eventually make up the difference for the junior pilots who have taken the brunt of all the mismanagement, dismanagement and cutbacks.
 
99.99% of the east first officers are grateful for the support of the senior pilots in this effort.  Any guess who the 0.01% is, traitor?
 
Yes, thank you for asking.  Just ask those one-year captains and wide-body first officers.  DOH is going SPLENDIDLY!

I have been impressed with the solidarity of the East pilots. Not only did the senior pilots stick it out in the trenches for the junior pilots in this senseless battle, but even with all East pilots being stuck on LOA93, Cpts and FOs alike donated over $27,000 in 3 years to Rebecca's fight against Diabetes, even though many were struggling financially. 
 
The only way to describe that is the highest integrity that there is and caring about the East family. (and the West claims that there is no integrity within the East group). Meanwhile, their definition of integrity is that they screw another pilot out of 14 yrs on the job. Personally, that is only greed (opposite of integrity). Having said that, several West pilots made donations and helped. Now, that was impressive, and I also consider you a brother/sister in this whole situation.
 
So to all my colleagues, Rebecca and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts. You guys are the best!
 
Peace, my brothers and sisters,
breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

 
You should try talking some the Captain's who are having to retire now. 

Oh, you mean those Captains who have been in the left seat for 25-30 yrs?
breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

John Davis  secured a lump sum for himself, I thnk you're wrong about McKee. 
 
The attacks from the lunatic  "ALPA stole our pensions in the middle of the night" crowd begins in five... four...three....

At the time of the Pension Termination, who was our CEO? Mr Bonner, head of the RSA, who, in my opinion, decided he wanted his cash back out of this company. Otherwise, surely a professionally retirement company like his could have come up with more options besides stealing the DB plan.
breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

 
In the mid 90s the IRS's Financial Accounting Standards Board created new accounting rules for DB Pension Plans. These rule changes caused pension plans to become underfunded. With US Air struggling with the highest CASM in the industry and its network under assault by Southwest, other LCC's, and RJs the company stopped funding the DB Plan.

US Air CEO Seth Schofield saw the writing on the wall and he came to the MEC offering to freeze the DB Plan and create a DC Plan. This would have given the pilots an "A" and "B" Plan. 

However, this information was never public to the rank-and-file during ALPA's tenure because via "roll call" vote the MEC kept this information close held with all of the discussions taking place in "closed session." The Reps involved were the first set of people labeled the RC4, which is an acronym for "roll call 4." If my memory serves me correctly the RC4 was PIT Captain Rep John Davis, PIT F/O Rep Frank Starnes, PHL Captain Rep Bill McKee, and PHL F/O Rep Frank Kelly (later on John Brookman and Mark King were elected as PIT Reps during this time frame).

In closed session against the advice of ALPA National R&I, against the advice of the MEC R&I Committee lead by Rick Moseley, Rich Altar, and Mark Minor, against the advice of the Officers, and against the advice of the majority of the MEC Reps, who urged the MEC to take Schofield's offer, by "roll call" vote the RC4/UELs said "no" keeping the underfunded DB Plan in place.

Why? The plan had a lump sum option that would have provided a pilot about a $1.5 million lump sum payment or an annuity upon retirement and the RC4 wanted to preserve this option even though they risked losing the whole enchilada if there was an economic downturn. Then 911 happened, the company filed for a formal reorganization, and the DB Plan was terminated. The Plan was underfunded by about $600 million and the ATSB and Creditors Committee were not going to provide the company an additional $600 million to save the plan as part of US Air's Plan of Reorganization (POR). 

After USAPA was elected and ALPA confidentiality requirements no longer existed the truth came out with what the RC4 UELs did to the pilots in closed session without the rank-and-file knowing what really happened. It's sickening, but these four Reps were the beginning of the angry mob who took over the ALPA MEC and now run USAPA. And, I believe the same type of damage that was done to the retirement plan by the union's leaders is being done to the pilot group over the Nicolau Award, where a group of selfish people are taking actions to benefit a portion of the pilot group at the expense of others.

Oops....you forgot, once again for the millionth time, to start your rant with "IMHO"
breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

Did Chip just post?

Chip who??? 😉

 

[traderjake]

Oh, you mean those Captains who have been in the left seat for 25-30 yrs?

 
No, I mean the Captain who was in my new hire class and turned 65 this year.

 

[Claxon]

John Davis  secured a lump sum for himself, I thnk you're wrong about McKee. 
 
The attacks from the lunatic  "ALPA stole our pensions in the middle of the night" crowd begins in five... four...three....

Did you get to vote?