What's new

2014 Pilot Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
nevergiveup said:
I hope this drags on for years. Do you want the same?
Exactly, Munn is to stupid to understand that the APA is in no hurry to get anything done, my AA buddies our like us the more this drags out the more attrition both sides will capture, why does Munn and his boyfriend Traitor want to screw his follow coworkers? Those two are the lowest of lows.
 
traderjake said:
You got Claxon all wrong.
 
He's a punk wanna be thug, and his fat friend eats chicken, not pizza.
So says the guy who sold out his co workers. Ones who worked for their jobs.
You were handed yours, so you have no sense of value.
Say hi to your pal Tony. What do you term his behavior?
 
traderjake said:
 
Is the language in the MOU an agreement to consent to the MB process if negotiations failed? 
 
 
No. Not as you stated the question.  There was no necessity to agree to consent to MB arbitration, because the MB arbitration process is a given on account of the statute, unless the parties contractually agree to an alternative pursuant to MB.  Even so the MOU did stipulate "provided that the obligations imposed by McCaskill-Bond may be enforced in a court of competent jurisdiction.".. so everyone did agree that MB obligations remained in tact.   
 
We don't agree, so the court will have to settle the issue, pursuant to MB.   The court's resolution may be that the MOU constitutes an alternative permissible under MB (I don't see how, as there is a dispute over the participants), or it may compel MB arbitration (the participants and the question).
 
Obviously the real issue is the authority to establish the participants.  APA wants the court to let an arbitrator decide how to enforce MB (supposing that APA will get to establish the participants unilaterally).  USAPA wants the court to decide how to enforce MB (supposing the statute stipulates the participants).
 
I have no doubt USAPA has the enforceable plea in accordance with the law, and the delay helps everyone except the West.  It is too bad really.  Everyone should be able to benefit from the new company.  
 
USA320Pilot said:
Wesley Kennedy's Declaration proved that APA has not "hood winked" us and has been up front and honest since the beginning of this regarding their intent to have a 3-way arbitration process since MOU negotations before the merger was executed. Time and time again USAPA misleads us, provides misinformation, and uses demagoguery to influence the pilots as if we are dumb sheep following the heard.For the past 1.5 years during MOU negotiations and then through failed PA discussions APA and AAG have always maintained they will only support a 3-way ISL arbitration. USAPA's response? The West pilots cannot have their own seat at the M-B table because only the bargaining agent can, which is right. And, that's the right argument based on the RLA as correctly ruled on by Judge Silver. However, USAPA wants to change this argument as predicted by Judge Silver (actually not as predicted by Silver, but she must have been a prophet because that is exactly what was going on behind closed doors) when she wrote, "The court has no doubt that-as is USAPA's consistent practice-USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view of seniority."And, maybe that's been the strategy by some in USAPA's WWHQ's all along. Szymanski had to know he was committing Judicial Estoppel and that is likely why he refused to testify in the Addington II DFR trial. Before the trial he and Wilder were arguing with Kennedy for USAPA to have a seat at the M-B table post SCC. Then Szymanski switched his argument in Judge Silver's courtroom when he took a position against US Airways' Summary Judgment stating the West could not have seat at the M-B table because only the bargaining agent is permitted to do so per the RLA.Maybe Szymanski knew what he was doing all long and he knows his actions would likely result in a M-B lawsuit case dismissal because of his Judical Estoppel violation. After all, Szymanski knows the law full well in regard to inconsistent positions in two different cases.Maybe certain members of USAPA and the pilots have been duped all along, but by the unions advisors and certain leaders.At least we now know why the pilots have an industry leading 2.45% dues rate, why USAPA needs need 6 versus 3 MC Reps (ALPA only uses 3 Reps) on FPL vacation, and labor attorneys who sit on USAPA's doorsteps begging to represent USAPA. FPL and billable hours are flourishing on Woodlawn Avenue.In summary, APA is no longer talking to USAPA and blew off the the US Airways pilots union's new draft PA, UMTA, GA, and lawsuit settlement offer. USAPA has been become irrelevant in the eyses of APA and AAG who act as strategic partners. The fight to fight is over and now we can sit back, buy another box of popcorn, and wait for Judge Howell and the NMB to rule. I found an interesting comment on another message board when a poster said, "In this merger USAPA has become the freak show, while everyone else is watching the main event. 'There is a sucker born every minute.' PT. Barnum and USAPA." It's just funny watching the same people run the union by playing chess with checkers. 
In the end I believe it
 is probable we will have a 3-way M-B ISL arbitration with a West MC that will be able to introduce the Nicolau Award at M-B, USAPA will be able to argue against the Nicolau Award at M-B, and APA will be able to argue their position at M-B.
 
USAPA = Pyrrhic Victory. 
Nice. Chip predicts a three way. Guarantees the opposite outcome.
 
Claxon said:
Nice. Chip predicts a three way. Guarantees the opposite outcome.
" We have learned that when Captain Munn is involved, be very afraid, if he’s on your side of the issue"
 
Phoenix said:
 
Arbitration cannot commence without 1) the consent of all participants, or in the alternative 2) a court order mandating the participants and the question of arbitration...
 
Phoenix said:
No. Not as you stated the question.  There was no necessity to agree to consent to MB arbitration, because the MB arbitration process is a given on account of the statute, unless the parties contractually agree to an alternative pursuant to MB.  Even so the MOU did stipulate "provided that the obligations imposed by McCaskill-Bond may be enforced in a court of competent jurisdiction.".. so everyone did agree that MB obligations remained in tact.   
 
 
Are these two statements consistant?
 
Does not constenting to MB allow USAPA to derail the process?
 
Claxon said:
So says the guy who sold out his co workers. Ones who worked for their jobs.
You were handed yours, so you have no sense of value.
Say hi to your pal Tony. What do you term his behavior?
 
luvthe9 says you're not MC.
 
Do you even work here or are you some kind of creepy pilot groupie stalker who lives in his Mom's basement?
 
traderjake said:
 
 
Are these two statements consistant?
 
Does not constenting to MB allow USAPA to derail the process?
 
If you think they are inconsistent then show how they are.  Don't ask a leading assumptive question like Chip.  It doesn't become you. 😀
 
USAPA isn't derailing the process.  The exact opposite it true.  USAPA is suing to proceed post haste with the MB arbitration according to the MB statute.  Not only is USAPA consenting to MB, they are pleading for the court to compel it.  The APA and company are requesting to be excused.  
 
Claxon said:
Nice. Chip predicts a three way. Guarantees the opposite outcome.
 
Well, there are no warranties in this world, save death and taxes, but were I standing at a craps table with chip throwing, and he betting the Pass line; I'd take the Don't Pass heavy, and cover the hard ways and craps, as well as the 12. 😉
 
traderjake said:
luvthe9 says you're not MC.
 
Do you even work here or are you some kind of creepy pilot groupie stalker who lives in his Mom's basement?
He's like your boy Stein, or maybe not. All you need to know he's on the good side and that's not yours and like myself we both support the junior people 110%.
 
traderjake said:
 
 
No worries trader. While chip's well-established philosophy of always suggesting immediately surrendering unconditionally, so's to "wisely" prevent any, even the most remote possibility of even potential, future defeat is known to all, well...the both of you can still always hope and pray for some unforeseeable misfortune to yet befall your very own coworkers none the less, I suppose. 😉
 
I must naturally, nowadays assume you felt his touching cry for an immediate (and entirely unsolicited from management), hearty whining for an instantly effective 10% pay reduction years ago to have been "reasonable", and that you were also there to wipe his crocodile tears when he was literally left wandering about muttering "Armageddon!...Armageddon!" to himself in the wake of even the very first corporate bankruptcy here?
 
For myself in the meanwhile; methinks the mighty "army" of self-styled "spartans" have both run their course and been fully established as nothing more than a bad joke on themselves, and that the courts are now left to play with things so long as they wish. Even were your and chip's insane notions about how it's never too late to surrender ever actually accepted by so much as local garden snails/insects/fauna, well...it just doesn't matter anymore. All that's achieved by suggesting surrender at this point is to further prove yourselves complete fools. How are any in the east at all, in ANY way suffering from the current proceedings? How would/could any possibly benefit from ingeniously throwing themselves helplessly under the wheels of the APA bus at this point?
 
traderjake said:
 
 
 
 
 
???
There you go with implied questions again.  You cannot truncate a post and thereby assume an implicit inconsistency.  Quote my whole post, rather than snippets.  
 
An arbitrator cannot commence arbitration without wiling participants (like via a contract) or court compelled participants (via an order pursuant to a contract, or a statute).
    
Your attempt to construct an inconsistency does little to change the fact that USAPA is more than willing to participate in MB arbitration and is suing to compel the APA to participate.  Did you already forget the NMB issued a list of arbitrators pursuant to MB (at USAPA's request and the APA's objection).  USAPA is willing, and it is the APA that is running away.   😀
 
Phoenix said:
An arbitrator cannot commence arbitration without wiling participants (like via a contract) or court compelled participants (via an order pursuant to a contract, or a statute).
 
 
 
Phoenix said:
 
There was no necessity to agree to consent to MB arbitration, because the MB arbitration process is a given on account of the statute, unless the parties contractually agree to an alternative pursuant to MB.
 
I going to go with #2.
 
luvthe9 said:
All you need to know he's on the good side and that's not yours and like myself we both support the junior people 110%.
 
Does his Mom make you clean the chicken bones off  the basement floor when the two of you are done posting?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top