2014 Pilot Discussion

[oscarjazz]

Hey Armando, you and your ALPO. " brothers" are a disgrace to those who went before you. You are nothing but a self serving opportunists who skew mergers to your advantage. It has always been about you.
As long as you benefit, that is the guiding principle. You benefitted from countless ALPA pilots before your time, then you and the other poser 767 Jetzz skew facts to benefit you.
Posers, fakers, opportunists. Fat, lazy feeders from dues money.
You are a paunchy, middle aged poser.

Wow, I see that you don't address the central question: Why don't you let the West pilots have representation if you truly believe your rhetoric?

I still don't know why you think I am Armando, I am not. While certainly middle aged and perhaps a poser, I am 6'4" and 195 pounds so most people would not call me paunchy.

Other than a bunch of stupid internet attacks, do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? I am sure that in your mind you are some sort of tough guy; the rest of the world just laughs at you.

 

[Claxon]

The west pilots have representation. Why don't you break your Ny pilots out as a subset and let them have representation as a separate class? The ATL pilots outnumber all the rest. It is only fair to have the NY pilots have separate class and status if there is another merger.
If you are a true union pilot, you need to address the ALK pilots your company is attempting to put on the street in their SEA attack.

 

[oscarjazz]

You think the UA pilots might have learned for us? Naw...

What do you think Nicolau meant when he told you that you were not going to get date of hire and to bring back another proposal? Did he mean, just hand me the same old tired date of hire list you have been working with for the last two years? Or did he mean, put your thinking caps on and come up with a new solution? Because your leadership just stuck with their stupid position and told the arbitrator to figure it out for himself. When he did, you responded by blowing up your careers.

Surely the UA pilots learned a lesson. Don't be stupid, don't stand your ground on a ridiculous position, solve the arbitrators problems and don't just make a self centered political stand that makes you look good in front of your pilots. Figure out the issues and solve them, don't be lazy and just pontificate about "gold standards". All good lessons to learn. Let's see if USAPA can look in the mirror and learn them also. So far, they have done nothing but shoot themselves in the head over and over and over. I guess they are slow learners.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Wow, I see that you don't address the central question: Why don't you let the West pilots have representation if you truly believe your rhetoric?

I still don't know why you think I am Armando, I am not. While certainly middle aged and perhaps a poser, I am 6'4" and 195 pounds so most people would not call me paunchy.

Other than a bunch of stupid internet attacks, do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? I am sure that in your mind you are some sort of tough guy; the rest of the world just laughs at you.

Because Judge Silver RULED that USAPA represents their interests, that they DON'T have to use the Nicolau seniority list and the West Class doesn't exist except on appeal to the Ninth Circuit.  Oh, the protocol agreement was meant to determine the terms of a M-B 13(b) agreement.  Since they havn't agreed, 13(a) of M-B applies.  Under the statute it can ONLY be one or the other.

 

[oscarjazz]

The west pilots have representation. Why don't you break your Ny pilots out as a subset and let them have representation as a separate class? The ATL pilots outnumber all the rest. It is only fair to have the NY pilots have separate class and status if there is another merger.
If you are a true union pilot, you need to address the ALK pilots your company is attempting to put on the street in their SEA attack.

The answer to that is pretty simple. Delta has a single seniority list, that is accepted by Delta management, the result of an agreed upon process, and there are no ways to change that list. If USAPA would accept their single seniority list, that is accepted by American (US Air) management, that was the result of an agreed upon process, with no attempts to change that list, then the West and the rest of the world would have no problem letting USAPA represent them. You are trying to change the single accepted list in a fashion that only helps East pilots and only harms West pilots. That is why they need separate representation. USAPA has made it clear that they have no interest in protecting the rights of the West pilots.

As for SEA, airline managements do what airline managements do. I am not the CEO and I can't change what he does in any fashion. Alaska management will compete with Delta or not. I have no say in how that turns out.

 

[Pi brat]

 
He had less seniority but an earlier DOH.
 
...................................................................on his respective seniority list

That's the key. His respective SL wasn't used when he came in on top of your Dad, the Kagel(sp?) award was.

 

[traderjake]

That's the key. His respective SL wasn't used when he came in on top of your Dad, the Kagel(sp?) award was.

 
And that was likey the last DOH/LOS pilot seniority arbitration we'll ever see because since then everyone but some USAPA supporters realize the fundamental unfairness.

 

[dariencc]

OBTW tell our boy Moak to put it where the sun does not shine, you also my friend!

 
 
Hey Armando, what he said.  😛

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Oscarjizz, that so called list you speak of was "VOTED AWAY" in the MOU, just like scope, change of control etc, It was a LOA, ! Go give Lee or lowest regards and raise money for those TWA pilots, my guess your going to need it

 

[Pi brat]

 
And that was likey the last DOH/LOS pilot seniority arbitration we'll ever see because since then everyone but some USAPA supporters realize the fundamental unfairness.

Haven't you been a "binding is binding!" kind of guy? Or just that the Nic is fair because is it was somewhat relative position?
 
I've always thought your view came from you perception of your Dad's case.

 

[Freighterguynow]

The answer to that is pretty simple. Delta has a single seniority list, that is accepted by Delta management, the result of an agreed upon process, and there are no ways to change that list.

Seniority lists can and have been subsequently changed for a variety of reasons.

 

[AWE Dog]

Wrong.
 
He had less seniority but an earlier DOH.
 
Glad to see you haven't learned a thing  from the last five seniority arbitrations.

And what exactly did your Daddy do to make his time more valuable than this F/O?

 

[Claxon]

Wow, I see that you don't address the central question: Why don't you let the West pilots have representation if you truly believe your rhetoric?I still don't know why you think I am Armando, I am not. While certainly middle aged and perhaps a poser, I am 6'4" and 195 pounds so most people would not call me paunchy.Other than a bunch of stupid internet attacks, do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? I am sure that in your mind you are some sort of tough guy; the rest of the world just laughs at you.

My apologies to that gasbag Armando. It has been so long since you came to the surface you confused us with your JACKed whining
Part of the Trans States Mafia. You, Mikey Jetzz Stein and Ex B717 WHINER.
You just keep coming to the aid of Vaselino and the rest. Reminds me of a DJ who keeps spinning the same junk. Over and over.
Your west pals got dragged into merger without a JCBA. Unfortunately for them, it is not going to end well now. Keep spinning that broken record Mr. DJ. Are you going to be making the Daly appearances, or will it be a long time before we hear?

 

[traderjake]

And what exactly did your Daddy do to make his time more valuable than this F/O?

'
Another idiot who thinks the time spent trying to get a job is more valuable than the job itself.  

 

[USA320Pilot]

The salient issue is that USAPA knew before it negotiated and ratified the MOU that AMR, LCC, AAG, and APA served notice that post SCC USAPA would not represent the US Airways pilots (East or West) unless it was determined by APA that a segment of their union could do so.

This is in compliance with the RLA, contract law, and the M-B statute.

Furthermore, the parties knew through US Airways' invitation, Summary Judgement, and other protocols that management and the APA will only support a 3-way (4-way) M-B arbitration, if held, which I believe is the only way to have a F&E process. Why? Because of USAPA's DFR intentions and desire to weasel out of a F&B ISL. In addition, APA and AAG are very concerned about a comment that the union pre and post SCC will be "unquestionably ripe (for) DFR", which still holds true today, not to mention AAG's concern for a liability claim.

USAPA's position shows their legal team planned and committed Judicial Estoppel before the MOU TA was obtained and ratified, which is another violation of law committed by the US Airways pilots illustrious union.