traderjake
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Freighterguynow said:
Only applies to the second degree.
2014 Pilot Discussion
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Only applies to the second degree.
traderjake
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Freighterguynow said:
How many DOH petitions did you sign?
Why don't you start another one?
nycbusdriver
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Freighterguynow said:
Hmmmm
lynyrdskynyrd
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I had two AA guys up front to LA a month or two ago who said the same thing. Apparently the policy didn't really work for the company or the pilots, for various reasons that I can't remember well enough to recite.flyer63 said:
Freighterguynow
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None, which is the point.traderjake said:How many DOH petitions did you sign?
Why don't you start another one?
I address your endless simplistic blathering about ' equipment and status ' and all you've got is some DOH retort.
traderjake
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Oh, I was suppose to take what you say seriously?
If you look at all the arbitrations the mean and the median is closer to my position (category and status) than your's (DOH/LOS).
Mark this post, the next arbitration is going to be very close to the United Continental arbitration, which favored C&S by a factor of 2 to 1.
If you look at all the arbitrations the mean and the median is closer to my position (category and status) than your's (DOH/LOS).
Mark this post, the next arbitration is going to be very close to the United Continental arbitration, which favored C&S by a factor of 2 to 1.
USA320Pilot
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I don't know who is behind this effort or its status. Regardless, here's the information.
_________________
US Airways Pilots Begin Effort to Decertify USAPA
To be blunt, USAPA’s pilots have had enough of their rogue, intimidating and manipulative leadership.
As you know, USAPA reluctantly inherited in 2008 what only it insisted was an “unfair” arbitrated pilot seniority award. Since then, and against the will of its pilots, USAPA leadership has kept the seniority award at bay, and created its own alternate seniority proposal, one which USAPA leadership naturally thinks is “fair.” The only catch is that the membership is not allowed to view the alternate seniority proposal. It’s a secret.
As part of today’s merger of US Airways and American Airlines, USAPA leadership, under threat of recall, grudgingly agreed to let its pilots vote upon a new labor agreement, one seemingly independent of the seniority dispute. Seventy-five percent of pilots ratified the new agreement. USAPA now finds itself in a pickle after it was revealed that at its roadshows, USAPA leadership told different membership groups completely different meanings of the new agreement, in particular the legal implications regarding the original arbitrated seniority award vs. USAPA’s alternate seniority proposal. In a desperate attempt to redirect blame for its own ambiguity, USAPA has taken even more legal action against the airline, and the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the pilots of American Airlines.
The membership has had enough of USAPA leadership’s double-talk, double standards, and frivolous lawsuits. The membership believes their leadership always meant to try to delay the merger unless the membership and others ceded to USAPA’s secret, alternate seniority demands.
USAPA oscillating views on seniority are well known. Arizona’s own Judge Silver in January this year said that, “The Court has no doubt that–as is USAPA’s consistent practice–USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.” (pp. 20, 21, lines 23, 1, Judge Silver’s Order, 01-10-2014). From that same order, Judge Silver also expressed“serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately representall of its members while it remains a certified representative” (p. 12, lines 6-8).
USAPA has cost the membership hundreds of millions of dollars by deliberately delaying for the last six-years the implementation of the original seniority award. The pilots would rather decertify USAPA than to allow it to hold them hostage any longer.
The following are additional, secondary highlights of why pilots want to decertify USAPA:
1. USAPA leadership has never allowed its pilots to read, or vote upon secret proposals it made to the airline.
2. Some of USAPA’s secret proposals are more than 6-years old, while others are only months old.
3. USAPA insists its pilots would approve of these secret proposals; therefore, there is no need to allow the pilots to vote.
4. USAPA wrote a derogatory, inflammatory e-mail alleging that members opposed to USAPA are associated with Hitler’s Nazi regime. In a different e-mail, USAPA stated that those who do not align with USAPA’s goals are “in fact traitors.”
5. Pilots fear more intimidation. USAPA twice sued 18 of its own pilots. Their alleged offense? Speaking unfavorably of USAPA. The lawsuits reserved blank spaces for the names of any additional pilots who dared to speak out against USAPA. Both lawsuits were ultimately dismissed.
6. One USAPA founder’s hostile e-mail illustrates the anger directed towards those who do not support USAPA. In an e-mail to one pilot, the author used colorful terms such as “asshole, pussies, ********, ****, idiots” and “**** you.” Again, this letter was from one of USAPA’s founders.
7. At some of USAPA’s regular meetings, USAPA hired armed guards to intimidate its membership into submission.
8. Pilots are tired of USAPA disguising the complete story. In its “Legal Updates,” USAPA deliberately withholds, or edits factual courtroom citations.
9. Most pilots’ unions list safety as their number one priority. USAPA lists safety as an objective lower than seniority.
We can provide you additional information if requested.
_________________
US Airways Pilots Begin Effort to Decertify USAPA
To be blunt, USAPA’s pilots have had enough of their rogue, intimidating and manipulative leadership.
As you know, USAPA reluctantly inherited in 2008 what only it insisted was an “unfair” arbitrated pilot seniority award. Since then, and against the will of its pilots, USAPA leadership has kept the seniority award at bay, and created its own alternate seniority proposal, one which USAPA leadership naturally thinks is “fair.” The only catch is that the membership is not allowed to view the alternate seniority proposal. It’s a secret.
As part of today’s merger of US Airways and American Airlines, USAPA leadership, under threat of recall, grudgingly agreed to let its pilots vote upon a new labor agreement, one seemingly independent of the seniority dispute. Seventy-five percent of pilots ratified the new agreement. USAPA now finds itself in a pickle after it was revealed that at its roadshows, USAPA leadership told different membership groups completely different meanings of the new agreement, in particular the legal implications regarding the original arbitrated seniority award vs. USAPA’s alternate seniority proposal. In a desperate attempt to redirect blame for its own ambiguity, USAPA has taken even more legal action against the airline, and the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the pilots of American Airlines.
The membership has had enough of USAPA leadership’s double-talk, double standards, and frivolous lawsuits. The membership believes their leadership always meant to try to delay the merger unless the membership and others ceded to USAPA’s secret, alternate seniority demands.
USAPA oscillating views on seniority are well known. Arizona’s own Judge Silver in January this year said that, “The Court has no doubt that–as is USAPA’s consistent practice–USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.” (pp. 20, 21, lines 23, 1, Judge Silver’s Order, 01-10-2014). From that same order, Judge Silver also expressed“serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately representall of its members while it remains a certified representative” (p. 12, lines 6-8).
USAPA has cost the membership hundreds of millions of dollars by deliberately delaying for the last six-years the implementation of the original seniority award. The pilots would rather decertify USAPA than to allow it to hold them hostage any longer.
The following are additional, secondary highlights of why pilots want to decertify USAPA:
1. USAPA leadership has never allowed its pilots to read, or vote upon secret proposals it made to the airline.
2. Some of USAPA’s secret proposals are more than 6-years old, while others are only months old.
3. USAPA insists its pilots would approve of these secret proposals; therefore, there is no need to allow the pilots to vote.
4. USAPA wrote a derogatory, inflammatory e-mail alleging that members opposed to USAPA are associated with Hitler’s Nazi regime. In a different e-mail, USAPA stated that those who do not align with USAPA’s goals are “in fact traitors.”
5. Pilots fear more intimidation. USAPA twice sued 18 of its own pilots. Their alleged offense? Speaking unfavorably of USAPA. The lawsuits reserved blank spaces for the names of any additional pilots who dared to speak out against USAPA. Both lawsuits were ultimately dismissed.
6. One USAPA founder’s hostile e-mail illustrates the anger directed towards those who do not support USAPA. In an e-mail to one pilot, the author used colorful terms such as “asshole, pussies, ********, ****, idiots” and “**** you.” Again, this letter was from one of USAPA’s founders.
7. At some of USAPA’s regular meetings, USAPA hired armed guards to intimidate its membership into submission.
8. Pilots are tired of USAPA disguising the complete story. In its “Legal Updates,” USAPA deliberately withholds, or edits factual courtroom citations.
9. Most pilots’ unions list safety as their number one priority. USAPA lists safety as an objective lower than seniority.
We can provide you additional information if requested.
USA320Pilot
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[SIZE=10pt]When considering NMB Single Carrier Certification (SCC) represented employees should consider recent history to be our lesson. In US Airways/America West, Delta/Northwest, United/Continental, Republic/Frontier, and Pinnacle/Mesaba and other mergers in the last decade, the NMB has found single carrier at a similarly situated point in time to where APA and USAPA find themselves. Until it is announced I do know nothing for certain, but I would be very surprised if the ruling from the NMB is anything other than single carrier[/SIZE]. Time will tell…
[SIZE=10pt]If the NMB does decide on SCC and appoints APA as the combined business entities pilots union what happens to USAPA’s legal actions when USAPA no longer exists as a bargaining agent and has no members?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]If the NMB does decide on SCC and appoints APA as the combined business entities pilots union what happens to USAPA’s legal actions when USAPA no longer exists as a bargaining agent and has no members?[/SIZE]
USA320Pilot
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Phoenix said:Obviously AOL cannot afford a new glossy pamphlet.
I don't think AOL needs to waste the money. I believe the NMB is going to take care of this for the three strategic partners: AAG, APA, and AOL. 😀
Phoenix
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So you affirm the "info" is from AOL, but don't know... :USA320Pilot said:
Implicitly assuming the NMB will alter the MB statute... That's a winner. Implicit assumption has worked so well so far. 😀
The west never prevailed in persuading the courts to subordinate federal statues to their beloved assumptions about contracts. Neither will the APA... 🙂 but delay, delay, delay via courts is a proven winner when you have everything you already want.... The APA has everything they could want, the East also, the West... They have ties!
USA320Pilot
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[SIZE=10pt]Today US Airways/AAG’s filed their Reply Brief, APA filed their Reply Brief, and AA pilot Wesley Kennedy filed a Declaration in D.C. federal court today.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]According to APA, “(Quoting from Judge Silver) The Court has no doubt that – [/SIZE]as is USAPA’s consistent practice– USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority. That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only the certified representatives should participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be allowed to participate. The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. . . .[W]hen USAPA is no longer the certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration.”
“Id. The court erred in only one respect: USAPA did not wait until it was no longer the certified representative to ‘change its position.’”
[SIZE=10pt]OUCH! -- USAPA = Pyrrhic Victory.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]According to APA, “(Quoting from Judge Silver) The Court has no doubt that – [/SIZE]as is USAPA’s consistent practice– USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority. That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only the certified representatives should participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be allowed to participate. The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. . . .[W]hen USAPA is no longer the certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration.”
“Id. The court erred in only one respect: USAPA did not wait until it was no longer the certified representative to ‘change its position.’”
[SIZE=10pt]OUCH! -- USAPA = Pyrrhic Victory.[/SIZE]
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