2014 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

 
Indeed....Curiously enough though; they've been sufficiently gracious so's to omit the obvious fact that the east holds full responsibility for not only the entire extent of their personal woes in life, but global warming as well, which I find surprisingly generous of them. 😉

True, true. Too bad nobody told them about the pitfalls of going all Leonidas on us....

 

[EastUS1]

True, true. Too bad nobody told them about the pitfalls of going all Leonidas on us....

 
Well sir....Ya' gotta' admit though, that all their "This is Sparta!"/"The Shield of Leonidas"/"soldiers"/"battle"-tested-"knights"/etc nonsense has at least been good for some serious laughs. 🙂 We do owe them for that much. The finest comedians on earth couldn't have ever surpassed the collective efforts of their "army", and of course "supreme commander" thereof. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

We encourage all pilots to review the presentation and draw their own conclusions about our situation.

AWAPPA

 
Allow me to offer some help for "you'se" with hopefully understanding and finally coming to grips with all this, "spartans"/Flounders:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-glKGjp50Ug

 

[EastUS1]

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Captain Hale informed David that the company would not take any action to remedy our situation. Worse yet, following the adverse reaction to this news by many of our pilots, the company began a grass-roots crew room effort to prevent an operational meltdown over the summer.
AWAPPA

 
So kids, just what sort of "operational meltdown" are "you'se" mighty "spartans" at all threatening here? I'd think that very much ill-advised for many reasons, and "good luck" even attempting anything of the sort. After all; let's not forget the true "quality" of your "soldiers", just for starters. Your BFF "Doug" knows just exactly what "you'se" are made of as well. Heck! "You'se" have literally advertised your "character" to the whole world, so why even try to pretend otherwise now?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpSFvQ-0p2I&list=PL21C1C7D32B996827&index=14
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5t5aE0iW4o

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 

We sent this message because we believe that all America West pilots should be aware of these facts. We encourage all pilots to review the presentation and draw their own conclusions about our situation.
AWAPPA

 

[flyingskier]

Really, really good bedtime story:
 
AWAPPA Members Forum

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Fellow America West pilots,

While conditions continue to deteriorate to unprecedented levels on the PHX island, both the East and the AA sides of the company continue to be flush with record movement and hiring. While the lack of movement may affect some of our pilots more than others, the most concerning bit about this situation is the potential weapon that it creates for use against us by both USAPA and APA in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process.


AWAPPA

Now hold on, are they now saying that the snapshot in time does't work?

Karma's a ####!

Skier
(East pilot with 1200 new hires below me and counting.. soon, east new hires will out number west pilots)

 

[end_of_alpa]

 
Did the Shuttle merger go DOH?
 
Did the Empire merger go DOH?
 
Do we have a DOH seniority list?

Patience (time) is a virtue.  Keep dreaming Dan.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Really, really good bedtime story:
 
AWAPPA Members Forum
Having trouble viewing this email? Click here
Fellow America West pilots,
Several weeks ago, Captains John Hale and Bob Johnson, Flight Department leadership from American Airlines, invited AWA First Officer David Braid to meet with them at American Airlines Headquarters in Dallas to discuss a variety of issues facing West pilots. David, taking the invitation very seriously, spent countless hours of his free time researching and preparing a 46-page PowerPoint presentation to present to Captains Hale and Johnson. In composing the presentation, David spoke to several respected AWA subject matter experts, and in addition consulted company SEC filings and other citable sources upon which his presentation was based to ensure factual accuracy. David even went so far as to consult the PHX Chief Pilots office in advance of the meeting, and received their blessing and support.
A copy of the presentation may be downloaded HERE. In short, the presentation describes the proverbial "island" the PHX domicile has become as a result of the spiteful actions of USAPA and certain East managers, and the willful neglect of our corporate leadership. Fully cognizant that neither Captain Hale nor Captain Johnson were a party to any of these acts, the presentation only asked that the disparate treatment cease.
On April 8, 2014, David flew to Dallas and had what he described as a "successful" meeting with Captains Hale and Johnson. David stated that he believed that his presentation was well received by Captains Hale and Johnson. At the close of the meeting, Captain Hale promised David to research the issues presented and provide him some answers within a few weeks.
Unfortunately, since that April 8 meeting, life on the "island" has continued to degrade significantly. The entire base remains critically staffed, and our pairings have degraded to a dangerous level never previously seen. For the June bid period, the company is using the "flex" provision in the AWA contract for the first time in 9 years to build First Officer lines as high as 94 hours over the summer. This comes only one year after the company's decision to unilaterally slash long-standing quantities of summer vacation allocation, resulting in perhaps the worst staffing-driven operational disaster PHX has seen. Additionally, there is no relief to come, as many long-time West check airmen have recently resigned allegedly due to their degrading working conditions in the Training Department (the only department still lead by an East pilot). While conditions continue to deteriorate to unprecedented levels on the PHX island, both the East and the AA sides of the company continue to be flush with record movement and hiring. While the lack of movement may affect some of our pilots more than others, the most concerning bit about this situation is the potential weapon that it creates for use against us by both USAPA and APA in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process.
A few days ago, Captain Hale contacted David, as promised, to provide him a response to his April 8 presentation. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Captain Hale informed David that the company would not take any action to remedy our situation. Worse yet, following the adverse reaction to this news by many of our pilots, the company began a grass-roots crew room effort to prevent an operational meltdown over the summer. The essence of the company's crew room message is that things in PHX will be "fixed" at some uncertain point in the future by some unknown and uncertain remedy. Our pilots, and particularly our captains, are asked to be "patient" about our situation, and pay no attention to the ongoing and worsening disparities between PHX and the other parts of the airline. Worse yet, some managers have even suggested that David's presentation is "emotional" and "overreaching."
We sent this message because we believe that all America West pilots should be aware of these facts. We encourage all pilots to review the presentation and draw their own conclusions about our situation.
AWAPPA

It's a shame the America West pilots ( this what you are, America West pilots - don't fool yourselves into thinking any differently ) have a long history electing leadership prone to emotion filled missives devoid of any substance.

Unhappy with summer vacation allocation being slashed? The East pilots got hit with that one 5 or is it 6 years ago? Flight Attendants as well.

Flex to 95? Again, the East pilots have been flexed to 95 up to the contractual maximum every year for the same time.

Flying 23% of your block hours on someone else's routes simply delayed the need to implement these provisions on the island. Plan on that little tidbit being used against you as well during the upcoming SLI proceedings.

In the mean time, keep blathering about East this or that but know, full well, you were warned about this all the way back at Wye River.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Really, really good bedtime story:
 
AWAPPA Members Forum

Having trouble viewing this email? Click here



Fellow America West pilots,

Several weeks ago, Captains John Hale and Bob Johnson, Flight Department leadership from American Airlines, invited AWA First Officer David Braid to meet with them at American Airlines Headquarters in Dallas to discuss a variety of issues facing West pilots. David, taking the invitation very seriously, spent countless hours of his free time researching and preparing a 46-page PowerPoint presentation to present to Captains Hale and Johnson. In composing the presentation, David spoke to several respected AWA subject matter experts, and in addition consulted company SEC filings and other citable sources upon which his presentation was based to ensure factual accuracy. David even went so far as to consult the PHX Chief Pilots office in advance of the meeting, and received their blessing and support.

A copy of the presentation may be downloaded HERE. In short, the presentation describes the proverbial "island" the PHX domicile has become as a result of the spiteful actions of USAPA and certain East managers, and the willful neglect of our corporate leadership. Fully cognizant that neither Captain Hale nor Captain Johnson were a party to any of these acts, the presentation only asked that the disparate treatment cease.

On April 8, 2014, David flew to Dallas and had what he described as a "successful" meeting with Captains Hale and Johnson. David stated that he believed that his presentation was well received by Captains Hale and Johnson. At the close of the meeting, Captain Hale promised David to research the issues presented and provide him some answers within a few weeks.

Unfortunately, since that April 8 meeting, life on the "island" has continued to degrade significantly. The entire base remains critically staffed, and our pairings have degraded to a dangerous level never previously seen. For the June bid period, the company is using the "flex" provision in the AWA contract for the first time in 9 years to build First Officer lines as high as 94 hours over the summer. This comes only one year after the company's decision to unilaterally slash long-standing quantities of summer vacation allocation, resulting in perhaps the worst staffing-driven operational disaster PHX has seen. Additionally, there is no relief to come, as many long-time West check airmen have recently resigned allegedly due to their degrading working conditions in the Training Department (the only department still lead by an East pilot). While conditions continue to deteriorate to unprecedented levels on the PHX island, both the East and the AA sides of the company continue to be flush with record movement and hiring. While the lack of movement may affect some of our pilots more than others, the most concerning bit about this situation is the potential weapon that it creates for use against us by both USAPA and APA in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process.

A few days ago, Captain Hale contacted David, as promised, to provide him a response to his April 8 presentation. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Captain Hale informed David that the company would not take any action to remedy our situation. Worse yet, following the adverse reaction to this news by many of our pilots, the company began a grass-roots crew room effort to prevent an operational meltdown over the summer. The essence of the company's crew room message is that things in PHX will be "fixed" at some uncertain point in the future by some unknown and uncertain remedy. Our pilots, and particularly our captains, are asked to be "patient" about our situation, and pay no attention to the ongoing and worsening disparities between PHX and the other parts of the airline. Worse yet, some managers have even suggested that David's presentation is "emotional" and "overreaching."

We sent this message because we believe that all America West pilots should be aware of these facts. We encourage all pilots to review the presentation and draw their own conclusions about our situation.

AWAPPA

You were not interested in bidding out of PHX.  What's all the wining about?  Key words and phrases:
 
"several respected AWA subject matter experts"
"spiteful actions of USAPA and certain East managers"
"willful neglect of our corporate leadership"
"life on the "island" has continued to degrade significantly"
"the Training Department (the only department still lead by an East pilot)."
"conditions continue to deteriorate to unprecedented levels on the PHX island"
"both the East and the AA sides of the company continue to be flush with record movement and hiring"
"most concerning bit about this situation is the potential weapon that it creates for use against us by both USAPA and APA in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process."
"the company would not take any action to remedy our situation"
"the company began a grass-roots crew room effort to prevent an operational meltdown"
"things in PHX will be "fixed" at some uncertain point in the future by some unknown and uncertain remedy"
"Our pilots"
"and particularly our captains"
"be "patient" about our situation, and pay no attention to the ongoing and worsening disparities between PHX and the other parts of the airline"
"some managers have even suggested that David's presentation is "emotional" and "overreaching."
 
BEST ONE YET: "We encourage all pilots to review the presentation and draw their own conclusions about our situation."
 
ANSWER:  It's going to be a HOT couple of summers and COLD COLD winters for West pilots in P-H-O-E-N-I-X.
 
Enjoy your self-imposed purgatory.

 

[end_of_alpa]

It's a shame the America West pilots ( this what you are, America West pilots - don't fool yourselves into thinking any differently ) have a long history electing leadership prone to emotion filled missives devoid of any substance.

Unhappy with summer vacation allocation being slashed? The East pilots got hit with that one 5 or is it 6 years ago? Flight Attendants as well.

Flex to 95? Again, the East pilots have been flexed to 95 up to the contractual maximum every year for the same time.

Flying 23% of your block hours on someone else's routes simply delayed the need to implement these provisions on the island. Plan on that little tidbit being used against you as well during the upcoming SLI proceedings.

In the mean time, keep blathering about East this or that but know, full well, you were warned about this all the way back at Wye River.

What's really revealing is the way they continued to RUB.... yes, RUB our noses in the FACT that their contract was better than LOA 93 and that we deserved everything we got.  Including the SCAB moniker name calling from none other than the West BPR reps and committee members getting on the Forums and calling us that. 
 
What did they say about KARMA???

 

[Freighterguynow]

Karma on the island is bad?

Unless of course, Mary Ann is there too!

 

[Black Swan]

A) non sequitur about when AWA was started
B ) non sequitur about Franke. Our busses could've been equipped with the rafts and whatever else was necessary. Buelller chose not to.
Sorry to spoil a good put-down against the West. You can return to planning how you're going to school the Apa about the virtues of DOH SLI.

Keep listening to Eric Ferguson. He has pretty much blown it for you. Listen to him again going up against APA and you will get schooled again.
The guy knows simple law. Enough to get him around a will or property deed. He is completely out of his league regarding labor issues and RLA/ MB. That is fine with me. Catastrophic for West pilots though.

 

[Black Swan]

Hale met with Braid to cover his legal behind. There is no provision in RLA law that allows a subset group to be broken out of the legally elected union whole simply because of their domicile. The West pilots are termed West as a simple carryover from years past. The RLA simply views them as USAirways pilots represented by USAPA, and domiciled in PHX. That is it.
Hale will get his brief from AA legal and it will be over.

 

[Pi brat]

Operational meltdown? Just a friendly reminder guys. USAPA is still under a federal injunction that prohibits any job action. You know, the one that some of you did everything possible to put in place, cheered when it came out, and protested against being lifted. Watch yourselves.

 

[AWE Dog]

I have always said, If enough time goes by the west will BEG for DOH. Bid closes tomorrow .