2014 Pilot Discussion
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west pilots have their last chance, agree to date of hire with conditions and restrictions with the east, or turn their fate over to apa, aka american airlines pilots. Air Cal, Reno and TWA pilots left their fate in the hands of american airlines pilots.flyer63 said:
exB717Flyer
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A) non sequitur about when AWA was startedluvthe9 said:
B ) non sequitur about Franke. Our busses could've been equipped with the rafts and whatever else was necessary. Buelller chose not to.
Sorry to spoil a good put-down against the West. You can return to planning how you're going to school the Apa about the virtues of DOH SLI.
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That choice has already been made. Good luck.Claxon said:
United and Continental airlines merged in May 2010 and the pilots will just start to fly together soon. It will be five years by the time this happens.exB717Flyer said:
In 2019, US Airways and american pilots will be flying together. Most of the East pilots will have moved on, DOH agreement with american is needless paperwork for the East.
The west pilots being a younger group, will have to live and fly with the results of a seniority agreement with american airlines pilots. So sit back, do nothing and continue to "Cut and saw off your nose to spite your face". (paraphrased)
exB717Flyer said:
So when were your "busses" ordered, and by whom? COMPANY NEWS; AMERICA WEST ORDERS $1.27 BILLION IN AIRBUS PLANES
Published: May 28, 2004 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/28/business/company-news-america-west-orders-1.27-billion-in-airbus-planes.html
You didn't spoil anything, and thanks for the usual laughs. 🙂
Claxon said:
"Most of the East pilots will have moved on" Yep, but we'll have to retire without ever getting any waay-cool-dude T-shirts! Heck!...Not even a "liberty" tie, for that matter...Oh, the shame and horror of it all. 😉
flyer63 said:
Well, only between brief bouts of "T-minus" countdown clocks and promises that "The nic will be crammed down your throats!" The whole west/'spartan" thing makes for interesting study. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/passive-aggressive-diaries/201403/7-reasons-why-people-use-passive-aggressive-behavior
Really, really good bedtime story:
AWAPPA Members Forum
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Fellow America West pilots,
Several weeks ago, Captains John Hale and Bob Johnson, Flight Department leadership from American Airlines, invited AWA First Officer David Braid to meet with them at American Airlines Headquarters in Dallas to discuss a variety of issues facing West pilots. David, taking the invitation very seriously, spent countless hours of his free time researching and preparing a 46-page PowerPoint presentation to present to Captains Hale and Johnson. In composing the presentation, David spoke to several respected AWA subject matter experts, and in addition consulted company SEC filings and other citable sources upon which his presentation was based to ensure factual accuracy. David even went so far as to consult the PHX Chief Pilots office in advance of the meeting, and received their blessing and support.
A copy of the presentation may be downloaded HERE. In short, the presentation describes the proverbial "island" the PHX domicile has become as a result of the spiteful actions of USAPA and certain East managers, and the willful neglect of our corporate leadership. Fully cognizant that neither Captain Hale nor Captain Johnson were a party to any of these acts, the presentation only asked that the disparate treatment cease.
On April 8, 2014, David flew to Dallas and had what he described as a "successful" meeting with Captains Hale and Johnson. David stated that he believed that his presentation was well received by Captains Hale and Johnson. At the close of the meeting, Captain Hale promised David to research the issues presented and provide him some answers within a few weeks.
Unfortunately, since that April 8 meeting, life on the "island" has continued to degrade significantly. The entire base remains critically staffed, and our pairings have degraded to a dangerous level never previously seen. For the June bid period, the company is using the "flex" provision in the AWA contract for the first time in 9 years to build First Officer lines as high as 94 hours over the summer. This comes only one year after the company's decision to unilaterally slash long-standing quantities of summer vacation allocation, resulting in perhaps the worst staffing-driven operational disaster PHX has seen. Additionally, there is no relief to come, as many long-time West check airmen have recently resigned allegedly due to their degrading working conditions in the Training Department (the only department still lead by an East pilot). While conditions continue to deteriorate to unprecedented levels on the PHX island, both the East and the AA sides of the company continue to be flush with record movement and hiring. While the lack of movement may affect some of our pilots more than others, the most concerning bit about this situation is the potential weapon that it creates for use against us by both USAPA and APA in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process.
A few days ago, Captain Hale contacted David, as promised, to provide him a response to his April 8 presentation. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Captain Hale informed David that the company would not take any action to remedy our situation. Worse yet, following the adverse reaction to this news by many of our pilots, the company began a grass-roots crew room effort to prevent an operational meltdown over the summer. The essence of the company's crew room message is that things in PHX will be "fixed" at some uncertain point in the future by some unknown and uncertain remedy. Our pilots, and particularly our captains, are asked to be "patient" about our situation, and pay no attention to the ongoing and worsening disparities between PHX and the other parts of the airline. Worse yet, some managers have even suggested that David's presentation is "emotional" and "overreaching."
We sent this message because we believe that all America West pilots should be aware of these facts. We encourage all pilots to review the presentation and draw their own conclusions about our situation.
AWAPPA
AWAPPA Members Forum
Having trouble viewing this email? Click here
Fellow America West pilots,
Several weeks ago, Captains John Hale and Bob Johnson, Flight Department leadership from American Airlines, invited AWA First Officer David Braid to meet with them at American Airlines Headquarters in Dallas to discuss a variety of issues facing West pilots. David, taking the invitation very seriously, spent countless hours of his free time researching and preparing a 46-page PowerPoint presentation to present to Captains Hale and Johnson. In composing the presentation, David spoke to several respected AWA subject matter experts, and in addition consulted company SEC filings and other citable sources upon which his presentation was based to ensure factual accuracy. David even went so far as to consult the PHX Chief Pilots office in advance of the meeting, and received their blessing and support.
A copy of the presentation may be downloaded HERE. In short, the presentation describes the proverbial "island" the PHX domicile has become as a result of the spiteful actions of USAPA and certain East managers, and the willful neglect of our corporate leadership. Fully cognizant that neither Captain Hale nor Captain Johnson were a party to any of these acts, the presentation only asked that the disparate treatment cease.
On April 8, 2014, David flew to Dallas and had what he described as a "successful" meeting with Captains Hale and Johnson. David stated that he believed that his presentation was well received by Captains Hale and Johnson. At the close of the meeting, Captain Hale promised David to research the issues presented and provide him some answers within a few weeks.
Unfortunately, since that April 8 meeting, life on the "island" has continued to degrade significantly. The entire base remains critically staffed, and our pairings have degraded to a dangerous level never previously seen. For the June bid period, the company is using the "flex" provision in the AWA contract for the first time in 9 years to build First Officer lines as high as 94 hours over the summer. This comes only one year after the company's decision to unilaterally slash long-standing quantities of summer vacation allocation, resulting in perhaps the worst staffing-driven operational disaster PHX has seen. Additionally, there is no relief to come, as many long-time West check airmen have recently resigned allegedly due to their degrading working conditions in the Training Department (the only department still lead by an East pilot). While conditions continue to deteriorate to unprecedented levels on the PHX island, both the East and the AA sides of the company continue to be flush with record movement and hiring. While the lack of movement may affect some of our pilots more than others, the most concerning bit about this situation is the potential weapon that it creates for use against us by both USAPA and APA in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process.
A few days ago, Captain Hale contacted David, as promised, to provide him a response to his April 8 presentation. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Captain Hale informed David that the company would not take any action to remedy our situation. Worse yet, following the adverse reaction to this news by many of our pilots, the company began a grass-roots crew room effort to prevent an operational meltdown over the summer. The essence of the company's crew room message is that things in PHX will be "fixed" at some uncertain point in the future by some unknown and uncertain remedy. Our pilots, and particularly our captains, are asked to be "patient" about our situation, and pay no attention to the ongoing and worsening disparities between PHX and the other parts of the airline. Worse yet, some managers have even suggested that David's presentation is "emotional" and "overreaching."
We sent this message because we believe that all America West pilots should be aware of these facts. We encourage all pilots to review the presentation and draw their own conclusions about our situation.
AWAPPA
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flyer63 said:
Did the Shuttle merger go DOH?
Did the Empire merger go DOH?
Do we have a DOH seniority list?
Pi brat said:
"Really, really good bedtime story:" is right, but I'll admit that I almost went through a whole box of tissues crying over just the "disparate treatment" alone, well, until recalling all the "You can live on LOA93 forever!" rantings that we routinely heard for years.
What proved most deeply touching to me though, was their obvious despair about being relegated to an "island". How, one must ask, could such horrible circumstances come about?...Well...I give you the "spartan navy" in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkD4I_NCY0
Buelller? Who is that? Who ran this company for the last 9 years? Let me clue you in, his name began with Doug.exB717Flyer said:
Figure out which seniority number you are going to take? Better not let AOL know if it's the AA one.
Pi brat said:
Indeed....Curiously enough though; they've been sufficiently gracious so's to omit the obvious fact that the east holds full responsibility for not only the entire extent of their personal woes in life, but global warming as well, which I find surprisingly generous of them. 😉
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