2014 Maintenance & Related & AMFA Cards

[Socplat13]

Just ask the IAM what they did for NWA when they went on strike.
We know how ineffective the TWU has been since 1946. Course I was not born till way after that but we all know how the TWU sucks. The IAM is not any better today. So for argument sake we are even in that category. I will take my chances with AMFA any day against the TWU or IAM.  Just bring the vote and lets get it over with.

What the IAM did for NWA mechanics when they went on strike, really? I thought the philosophy of craft unionism states that your power lies in your skill and that's why you do not need to have an association with the unskilled? The antithesis of trade unionism which states the opposite.

What I find truly mind-boggling is that the only time AMFA's philosophy was tested on a big stage, it failed miserably and then the AMFAholics blame their failure on a trade union! Hypocrisy at its best.

Maybe Delle-Femine should have had AMFA members VOTE the LBO and have the membership to decide. Maybe having a STRIKE FUND would help. 

Joke.

 

[TRAVIS]

It didn't matter what UNION was in contract negotiations at that time at Northwest as they were going to BUST all unions to merge with DELTA.
AMFA was just the union the company put their sights on, It could have just as easily have been the IAM ramp but then again the IAM may have just rolled over and took the cuts to keep the DUES coming in and the company new this.
The IAM ramp at NWA is now non-union as is all at DELTA. 
The way AMFA handled it could have been better IMHO, But give them AMFA Boy's and Girl's their due they stood their ground GOD BLESS EM.   

 

[TRAVIS]

9.53 percent raise DOS and another 3 percent in September

9.53% ??????? i feel like Charlie Brown i got a rock. 3% DOS and 3% in September AND STILL ON THE BOTOM.

 

[Tim Nelson]

What the IAM did for NWA mechanics when they went on strike, really? I thought the philosophy of craft unionism states that your power lies in your skill and that's why you do not need to have an association with the unskilled? The antithesis of trade unionism which states the opposite.

What I find truly mind-boggling is that the only time AMFA's philosophy was tested on a big stage, it failed miserably and then the AMFAholics blame their failure on a trade union! Hypocrisy at its best.

Maybe Delle-Femine should have had AMFA members VOTE the LBO and have the membership to decide. Maybe having a STRIKE FUND would help. 

Joke.

Correct about what?  I said that fleet came out better than MX.  It did, and I felt MX got the short end without doubt.  The MX contract was horrible under the circumstances of section 6 with an airline making billions of dollars.  The MX I knew were disappointed about it but voted yes since management convinced the IAM not to have a strike vote.   if the contract was voted down, then the IAM was going to dump everyone in joint talks with $0 and blame the NMB. 
 
Shameful since the IAM rhetoric to the media was the exact opposite, blabbing its mouth about striking, even though management convinced the IAM to kill a strike vote.  You can talk all the strength crap you want, the reality is that the IAM didn't have enough strength to hold a simple strike vote.  What's that all about?  The members want to know.
 
Because of the complete mess, you now caused MX to consider other unions. That's the last thing fleet service needs so I hope you guys take AMFA seriously.  Let's hope that MX decides to stick it out with the association and remind them of the pension hostage language in the MX contract that will most certainly cause management to stop paying a pension for the MX.  It might not be a bad idea for the IAMPF trustees to fire off another letter to all of the MX members threatening them that if they leave the IAM, that they wont' get any more pension contributions until a joint contract...which could take years.  I don't see how any US AIRWAYS MX would vote for AMFA, knowing full well that if they do that, then management won't give one more dime in their retirement.  Unlike Fleet service, which demanded a fall back, the MX didn't read the language and volunteered their pension hostage.  Bird brains!
 
At any rate, as an IAM member, I hope MX stay in the IAM.  There is only so much pie and the last thing fleet needs is some craft union wanting more of our pie slice because of its elite program.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Tim Nelson is correct. The age old expression, "power in numbers" is age old for a reason. It works.

AMFA has been a dismal failure for the MX craft. The Northwest tragedy and United debacle has hurt the MX craft immeasurably. 

Who came out better during the industry's convulsion from 2000-2009, US Airways mechanics or Northwest mechanics?

How did the craft union philosophy work out at Northwest? 

The AMFAholics can't seem to shake the good feeling that AMFA's propaganda causes. You're highly skilled, which MXs are--and the unskilled drag you down. Cleanse yourself of the peasants and Utopia will finally arrive. It's all b.s. and hasn't worked at any carrier in which the philosophy was tested.

 
Socplat13
 
If the AMFA movement is a failure then why are the SWA and AS mechanics better off then the US/AA mechanics.
 
Even the auto shop guys make $5.00 more than a A&P at AA.
 
If the numbers game of the Big industrial unions has worked so well then How come the MX at US/AA are at the bottom of the food chain?
 
No Matter which union we the mechanics end up we just want it to be a choice WE made. Why is that so hard to understand????
 
I don't see how our class and craft effects any other. The pilots get what they negotiate, so do the F/A's, both of those groups broke away from the norm and have thrived.
 
The IAM/TWU in the opinion of maintenance has failed. Attempting to bring change from within has failed so it's now to try another path to better our class and craft and bring a voice to the floor. The Intl. and District Lodges have dictated to us when they are supposed to work for us.
 
Just like Tim Nelson said Fleet is bigger and since it's all about the dues paying members the leaders of the TWU/IAM will do what's best for the larger group. So that the Chair of the Lodge and the Intl reps keep their jobs.
 
As long as each union supports the other unlike what happened at NWA when the other unions crossed the picket line. That is all that matters isn't it?
 
I was IAM at EAL and then proud of what we did. Said enough is enough.
Disappointed that the IAM scabbed at NWA. Everyone asks why AMFA lost its members so didn't the IAM why no fight to keep or get a vote at Delta? it can be looked at and spun any way just to get a point across.
 
The IAM had no plan at Eastern, they failed at Continental, Failed at Alaska, did poor job at United and got voted out, failed at TWA as well, all of these have been debated and talked about but bottom line the IAM has as well failed. Maintenance is LQQKING for a change in our class and craft that will maybe bring stability to our choices.
 
Having union members NOT part of our class and craft telling us how bad the union we want to represent us is not a way to bolster a bond for the future of the unions at AA.
 
The IAM has done what for You here at USAir? TWO BK's and a non bk contract that still has you at the bottom of the pay scale. How has the IAM done a better job?
 
It's time to make a change that will effect all of our futures, make a change that will make a difference.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014, get a card sign it and help us effect that change. get involved in your craft, don't just let the other guy decide for you.

 

[700UW]

How about those former AS from OAK, you know the over 200 that lost their jobs as had no scope?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Correct about what?  I said that fleet came out better than MX.  It did, and I felt MX got the short end without doubt.  The MX contract was horrible under the circumstances of section 6 with an airline making billions of dollars.  The MX I knew were disappointed about it but voted yes since management convinced the IAM not to have a strike vote.   if the contract was voted down, then the IAM was going to dump everyone in joint talks with $0 and blame the NMB. 
 
Shameful since the IAM rhetoric to the media was the exact opposite, blabbing its mouth about striking, even though management convinced the IAM to kill a strike vote.  You can talk all the strength crap you want, the reality is that the IAM didn't have enough strength to hold a simple strike vote.  What's that all about?  The members want to know.
 
Because of the complete mess, you now caused MX to consider other unions. That's the last thing fleet service needs so I hope you guys take AMFA seriously.  Let's hope that MX decides to stick it out with the association and remind them of the pension hostage language in the MX contract that will most certainly cause management to stop paying a pension for the MX.  It might not be a bad idea for the IAMPF trustees to fire off another letter to all of the MX members threatening them that if they leave the IAM, that they wont' get any more pension contributions until a joint contract...which could take years.  I don't see how any US AIRWAYS MX would vote for AMFA, knowing full well that if they do that, then management won't give one more dime in their retirement.  Unlike Fleet service, which demanded a fall back, the MX didn't read the language and volunteered their pension hostage.  Bird brains!
 
At any rate, as an IAM member, I hope MX stay in the IAM.  There is only so much pie and the last thing fleet needs is some craft union wanting more of our pie slice because of its elite program.

Tim
 
AA has gotten rid of all the pensions at AA what do you think AA is going to do with the IAM Plan once the merger happens fully? No matter what is in the CBA it will be frozen JMHO, AA will not give it the IAM/TWU association and not the Pilots or F/A's. It will stay until a JCBA is negotiated "YES" but we who work at AA just don't see it staying after all is said and done.
 
Start a thread on How you think the IAM will guarantee the pension at AA for ever. Lets see how that conversation goes. I agree a DPP is better in most cases but the future has gone by the 401k programs. Having the choice to manage your own money is a choice most want. They don't want the restrictions the Union pensions have in them after we all retire. How they will stop paying you if you go back to work in the trade you know. That it takes  away a job from a IAM member.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
 
AA has gotten rid of all the pensions at AA what do you think AA is going to do with the IAM Plan once the merger happens fully? No matter what is in the CBA it will be frozen JMHO, AA will not give it the IAM/TWU association and not the Pilots or F/A's. It will stay until a JCBA is negotiated "YES" but we who work at AA just don't see it staying after all is said and done.
 
Start a thread on How you think the IAM will guarantee the pension at AA for ever. Lets see how that conversation goes. I agree a DPP is better in most cases but the future has gone by the 401k programs. Having the choice to manage your own money is a choice most want. They don't want the restrictions the Union pensions have in them after we all retire. How they will stop paying you if you go back to work in the trade you know. That it takes  away a job from a IAM member.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014

You aren't agreeing with me.  The IAMPF sucks. I wish I could get the IAM's hands off of my money.  The IAMPF scammers already hijacked my future benefit schedule and slashed it in half.  I have absolutely no control over my retirement and the IAM will most likely have to whack the plan a 3rd time to keep it green once another event happens in this country. Anyone who wants to dump his money into a 3rd party that gives you NO CONTROL, and robs you blind is a moron.  But morons do exist and negotiation team members within the IAM continue to serve them.  We were told that our negotiation team would finally listen and instead of increasing IAMPF funds, it would listen to the members and get retirement increases through the 401k we already have. Well, that didn't happen, they just raised the IAMPF another dime.  Whippie!   To be sure, as an IAMPF participant, it sucks balls.  I have no control, but restrictions....and plenty of them.  Blows!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

How about those former AS from OAK, you know the over 200 that lost their jobs as had no scope?

 
700UW 
you throw all kinds of shots at AMFA but what happened to the USAir guys at Pitts.
 
Did the contract at US help them? How much has Pitts shrunk? How much work is farmed out and how many mechanics have been laid off?
 
we all can throw stones.
 
WE the mechanics want to choose our union, that means airline workers not some one from the outside, which you are. Some one who is not part of our class and craft at the current time.
 
The IAm has failed since its hay day where it was at most carriers. But they are Gone and How many members have they lost?
 
Alaska
TWA
Eastern
United
Continental
 
Soon the IAM at US will be gone either by the Association or the Vote for AMFA but it will not represent the group as ONE Union any longer as a stand alone union.
 
We will also see how many TWU & IAM members loose jobs because of it. Scope or NOT AA will do what ever it takes to run its business.
 
We the mechanics just want to Vote on our Union. 
 
AMFA at AA 2014.

 

[1AA]

Hopefully we can bring this to a vote by the NMB.
 
Given the choices of which union we want to represent us in a democratic vote.
That will settle it once and for all. Once the members have spoken through a representational election we can move on with the results of the vote.
The only issue I see is getting guys to vote.

 

[blue collar]

The reason why AMFA is gaining traction isn't because everyone thinks they'll get an industry leading contract, but because the members want more say and control in their union. You use NWA as a failure - yes, the members don't have jobs there anymore, but it was far from a failure. They CHOSE to strike, and the overwhelming majority know they're better for it. They've moved on to better jobs/careers, and have NO regrets.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hopefully we can bring this to a vote by the NMB.
 
Given the choices of which union we want to represent us in a democratic vote.
That will settle it once and for all. Once the members have spoken through a representational election we can move on with the results of the vote.
The only issue I see is getting guys to vote.

the issue has been settled.  This is America.  AMFA has never produced 50% of the cards at sAA or sUS. The reality is that as much as the TWU members complain about the TWU, they love the TWU and keep paying $750+ a year to it. The NMB just can't have a vote for AMFA. No entitlements.  AMFA has been a product of a renegade group of mechanics at LAA who prolly number around 25% and stir it up.  Nothing wrong with a few divergents.
 
Most TWU members like being in the same union as ramp rats and don't mind sharing the pie, for the good of it. And IAM MX would be nuts to vote for AMFA since they will go an extended period not having any pension contributions.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The reason why AMFA is gaining traction isn't because everyone thinks they'll get an industry leading contract, but because the members want more say and control in their union. You use NWA as a failure - yes, the members don't have jobs there anymore, but it was far from a failure. They CHOSE to strike, and the overwhelming majority know they're better for it. They've moved on to better jobs/careers, and have NO regrets.

There is no control with the IAM. I'll agree with you about that.  Well, at least the members have no control.  Some would say that management controls the I'll Ask Management. 
 
It was unfortunate that the IAM pounced against AMFA and teamed up with management at NWA.  In doing so it spelled their own doom on the property as well.
 
If AMFA is gaining traction, then won't it be as a write-in since they are too late with the cards again?
 
As an aside, I'm stuck with the IAM but my focus moving forward is to beat it into the heads of the TWU members how awful the IAMPF is and how the Asshat negotiation team needs to incorporate choice BIGTIME.  I'm tired of these asshat negotiators sucking balls to get a job and then don't even consider any other retirement options that would help its members, but instead toss more into a scandal of a plan. 

 

[blue collar]

There is no control with the IAM. I'll agree with you about that.  Well, at least the members have no control.  Some would say that management controls the I'll Ask Management. 
 
It was unfortunate that the IAM pounced against AMFA and teamed up with management at NWA.  In doing so it spelled their own doom on the property as well.
 
If AMFA is gaining traction, then won't it be as a write-in since they are too late with the cards again?
 
As an aside, I'm stuck with the IAM but my focus moving forward is to beat it into the heads of the TWU members how awful the IAMPF is and how the Asshat negotiation team needs to incorporate choice BIGTIME.  I'm tired of these asshat negotiators sucking balls to get a job and then don't even consider any other retirement options that would help its members, but instead toss more into a scandal of a plan. 

They're not too late with cards yet. Read nmb rules, or TSH's posts for a quick rundown. He's been actively trying to educate (or get others to educate themselves).
And I don't think the IAMNPF is all that great of an option. It's definitely not all that they're trying to sell it as.

 

[Tim Nelson]

They're not too late with cards yet. Read nmb rules, or TSH's posts for a quick rundown. He's been actively trying to educate (or get others to educate themselves).
And I don't think the IAMNPF is all that great of an option. It's definitely not all that they're trying to sell it as.

Well, it looks unlikely that they will have enough time since a determination will happen most likely in the next two weeks. Then 30 days to intervene, but that would be to intervene for the whole new airline.  I doubt many US AIRWAYS MX sign cards.  Yes, the IAMPF is poor.