Yea or nay

[TWU informer]

COL doesn't have base maint. either, which is a big cost as far as labor costs. Are you saying we should have gone into bankruptcy and lose AFW and TUL?

Just Curios...

...What dog do you have in the hunt?

What is your current position at AA and what will you gain/lose from the T/A?

 

[Duke787]

Just Curios...

...What dog do you have in the hunt?

What is your current position at AA and what will you gain/lose from the T/A?

I'm a AMT at ORD, I have just as much to gain and lose as any other mech. I like to read these forum's every once in a while to see what the opinion is through out the system. Unfortunately all I see is the same whiners complaining about the 2003 concession. My position is that if it wasn't for the "yes voters" (I voted no, but if I had to redo my vote I would vote yes) we would have been in bankruptcy, we would have lost our pension and TUL and AFW would have been turned into AMR services and those base mechs wouldn't be AA employee's anymore. I'm sure we would have gotten the contract that UAL mechs have. I really don't care much for the socialist aspect of a union, but I believe they're necessary for the industry we're in. Please remember you are not forced to work at AA, if you see a better job with better benefits you're a fool for not taking it.

Nobody likes a whiner. You don't like the negotiating committee then run for your local president position, if you're not elected then there is probably a reason why. We all have opinions and the majority wins.

 

[TWU informer]

Nobody likes a whiner. You don't like the negotiating committee then run for your local president position, if you're not elected then there is probably a reason why. We all have opinions and the majority wins.

Majority does NOT win under the TWU Constitution. Officers elections are plurarity not majority.

Example: Steve Luis was elected with appx 800 votes while running against about 8 Candidates. More people voted for other Candidates but Steve won.

Your opinions are not correct when compared to the facts.

Sounds like another one of those Alias Posters related to FWAAA to me

 

[The Goose]

... snip
My position is that if it wasn't for the "yes voters" (I voted no, but if I had to redo my vote I would vote yes) we would have been in bankruptcy, we would have lost our pension and TUL and AFW would have been turned into AMR services and those base mechs wouldn't be AA employee's anymore.

.
Yes - this is what our so-called representation said, parroting the words of the company. I personally believe it was nothing but lies designed to keep the "mighty" TWU in power to the company's benefit but - you are entitled to your opinion.

... snip

.
Please remember you are not forced to work at AA, if you see a better job with better benefits you're a fool for not taking it.
.

.
In a way, it's rather refreshing to see someone in a management can repeat the identical lie accurately after 7 years ...

 

[frontline]

I say it will pass, probably on a close vote. It is hardly an impressive contract, but as I think about the future of this industry (outsourcing, no pensions or retiree medical, etc.) it is still better than going to work at United (even if I could take my seniority with me). And it is still a better option than seeing our company go through bankruptcy and being handed another concessionary deal.

So while it's far from perfect I'll probably vote yes.

 

[The Goose]

I say it will pass, probably on a close vote. It is hardly an impressive contract, but as I think about the future of this industry (outsourcing, no pensions or retiree medical, etc.) it is still better than going to work at United (even if I could take my seniority with me). And it is still a better option than seeing our company go through bankruptcy and being handed another concessionary deal.

So while it's far from perfect I'll probably vote yes.

Your "YES" vote was a foregone conclusion.

 

[toroshark]

I say it will pass, probably on a close vote. It is hardly an impressive contract, but as I think about the future of this industry (outsourcing, no pensions or retiree medical, etc.) it is still better than going to work at United (even if I could take my seniority with me). And it is still a better option than seeing our company go through bankruptcy and being handed another concessionary deal.

So while it's far from perfect I'll probably vote yes.

Would it be too much to ask if you were 49 or below?

 

[MTheory]

Majority does NOT win under the TWU Constitution. Officers elections are plurarity not majority.

Example: Steve Luis was elected with appx 800 votes while running against about 8 Candidates. More people voted for other Candidates but Steve won.

Your opinions are not correct when compared to the facts.

Sounds like another one of those Alias Posters related to FWAAA to me

You are correct, when it comes to elections. But not contract votes. The concessionary agrement of 2003 was voted in by a majority of the memberhip. Now.............could Little have over rode the wishes of the membership? Yes , but he didnt need to do that. We did it for him.

I voted no for the 2003 concessions, but had AMR gone BK, we would have lost our pensions too, and we would have a contract something similar to UAL. I cant say for sure if they were calling our bluff or not. I was an e-board member for 562 at the time and AMR was going through 5 million a day thanks to Carty. Based on the information available at the time, they probably could have made a case for it in BK court.

Point is, DUKE has some valid thoughts, though you may not agree with him. Putting all rhetoric aside, everyone has to weigh this proposal for what it does, and does not offer. Do you want to send it back to the same people who gave it to you in the first place? I have serious considerations on that one. All in, this proposal probably hurts the bases more than the line (new OSM classification), but I have not yet seen the full text, so who knows?

Pete

 

[The Goose]

... snip
I voted no for the 2003 concessions, but had AMR gone BK, we would have lost our pensions too ...

This is misinformation and you should be ashamed of yourself for repeating it - we simply would have lost further accrual re: pension benefits, but not the pensions themselves. They would have been handled/administered by the PBGC, but the recipients could not have drawn them until age 65. You would still have the pension, very much unlike the BS told you by the company and their pet union.

Based on the information available at the time, they probably could have made a case for it in BK court.

You would be far better off reading the actual bankruptcy law as contained in the Federal Regulations. At that time, as now, there was/is NOT A NEED-TYPE TEST to file for Chapter 11 protection. As a matter of fact, a financially healthy company could have filed for Chapter 11 protection in 2003 as they could now, according to the law. Obviously, it would be rather stupid for a healthy company to do so then or now, but the fact remains there are no restrictions re: one doing so.

Also, there are no restrictions as to the frequency of filing - a company can file a Chap. 11 petition once a week if they choose to but again, that wouldn't be very practical the previous week's filing hadn't been cleared yet and still could be amended.

Wait until it becomes evident in 2014, a year after the next contract is settled (which I predict will happen in record time), how much money the company will be putting into its pockets due to O'BummerCare (medical insurance) - most estimates now as to the corporate benefit are staggering to the point of those familiar with the 3000 page law can't calculate the monetary value. Why do you think no large corporations put up a fight over this healthcare bill we had rammed down our throats? Follow the money.

Exploring a VEBA? Wonderful - for the unions. They'll be in the organized gambling business then - more money!! They will be in charge of administering the mess the DemocRATS have made of the country's healthcare system for us - you see what their opinion of us is by virtue of what they brought back as a TA.

This batch of cookie-cutter TAs are an insult to everyone who actual does anything at American Airlines instead of sitting at a desk.

 

[Bob Owens]

COL doesn't have base maint. either, which is a big cost as far as labor costs. Are you saying we should have gone into bankruptcy and lose AFW and TUL?

I keep hearing that "so and so doesnt have OH", well other than AA who does? Who should we compare ourselves to? You management types have no problem citing carriers who pay less and dont have OH but whenever we cite those who pay more you cry foul. This carrier took the olives out of the salad to save a little money. The fact is that if doing it "in House" was more expensive AA would have gotten rid of OH years ago.

AFW isnt going anywhere, half of it is Taesel and it makes money. They just sent the 777 back to AFW as well.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'm a AMT at ORD, I have just as much to gain and lose as any other mech. I like to read these forum's every once in a while to see what the opinion is through out the system. Unfortunately all I see is the same whiners complaining about the 2003 concession. My position is that if it wasn't for the "yes voters" (I voted no, but if I had to redo my vote I would vote yes) we would have been in bankruptcy, we would have lost our pension and TUL and AFW would have been turned into AMR services and those base mechs wouldn't be AA employee's anymore. I'm sure we would have gotten the contract that UAL mechs have. I really don't care much for the socialist aspect of a union, but I believe they're necessary for the industry we're in. Please remember you are not forced to work at AA, if you see a better job with better benefits you're a fool for not taking it.

Nobody likes a whiner. You don't like the negotiating committee then run for your local president position, if you're not elected then there is probably a reason why. We all have opinions and the majority wins.

Well you seem to have forgotten that we gave our concesions after UAL had a concessionary deal imposed on them, then we undercut them so badly that they had to go back and ask for more. As far as the pension, obviously you arent collecting it yet and if you vote away the new guys pension withe a lousy DC then dont be suprised if a few years from you lose yours.

 

[eolesen]

Sounds like another one of those Alias Posters related to FWAAA to me

I love how you insist on full disclosure of who posts a comment, yet don't hold yourselves to the same standard...

Claiming that FWAAA has aliases is quite ironic coming from someone who has gone under the monikers AMFA Dave, Decision2000something, RV4, and probably a few other names thru the years...

 

[Duke787]

Bob Owens, I respect your opinions. I don't always agree with them, but I respect them because you don't sit back and just complain, you are proactive and try to do something.

 

[Duke787]

I say it will pass, probably on a close vote. It is hardly an impressive contract, but as I think about the future of this industry (outsourcing, no pensions or retiree medical, etc.) it is still better than going to work at United (even if I could take my seniority with me). And it is still a better option than seeing our company go through bankruptcy and being handed another concessionary deal.

So while it's far from perfect I'll probably vote yes.

Well said, but I don't think it will be close. How does the TUL and AFW guys feel about this contract? They seem to be suffering from this contract.

 

[bravozulu@afw]

Well said, but I don't think it will be close. How does the TUL and AFW guys feel about this contract? They seem to be suffering from this contract.

"WE the PEOPLE...." of AFW, are now MORE ANIMATE AGAINST the Think Again proposal. Black VOTE NO on dayglo badge attachments are being worn in every business unit, except for supervision/ management & engineering offices. ASIDE, some of the 4A organization cannot believe how low AAMR has become with the submission of this TA.

I'd like to know what happened to Mr Reams proposal to reward the workers who have carried the company in these trying times?

BTW, When is the 777 OH/ Heavy C returning to AFW? Bay 4 did not slip a plane unless something drastic was found on outbound (sorta makes you think "Where was QA at while the plane was comming into the dock?"). ALL 757 work should be performed at it's RESPECTIVE Heavy C OH Base-----TULE!!!