Why?surviving Carrier Empl Suffer

[tadjr]

my point is - before the ink is dry on the agreement, the damage is done to the AWA group. They are going to be sacrificed for those 23 yr AAA employees.

[post="302559"][/post]​

Depends on which group you are talking about. We currently have 8-10 people with July 4, 2005 seniority in station with the possibility of more openings on the way. Not everyone at US has 20 + years. I just met some people in HP training (for us to start handling them in OCT) and there was someone with 7 years, 5 years, someone with 7 months, 5 months and 6 weeks .

 

[PHX-F/A]

you may be right as far as the future - but those investors were not jumping up and down to help AAA w/o AWA.

[post="299454"][/post]​

or vice-versa

 

[ringmaruf]

you may be right as far as the future - but those investors were not jumping up and down to help AAA w/o AWA.

[post="299454"][/post]​

You mean aside from the 2 investors and $250 million in equity financing that US already had *before* the HP merger came along?

 

[ItsNotThatSerious]

ok, but riddle me this - in the immediate future their will be downsizing in the fleet and employees. it will undoubtedly be the junior employees ala AWA that get the street. the excess is obviously on the AAA side - so should the AWA people be the first out the door in this scenario???

[post="300193"][/post]​

Riddle me this, Why was I hired in 1999 and still on furlough? If you were me who would you want to hit the streets?

 

[mwa]

i don't want anyone to hit the street. that is for sure. i can visualize the scenario of the lion's share of cuts borne by AWA because AAA is an ancient company. dovetailing offers some hope but the pain is not proportionate to the benefit. how bout making it proportional to the anticipated service lost via this combination ie if AWA drops something - a calculation of the impact to employees is made and vice versa. this offers a sense of fairness it seems to me versus a straight seniority merge.

 

[Whatnow?]

i don't want anyone to hit the street. that is for sure. i can visualize the scenario of the lion's share of cuts borne by AWA because AAA is an ancient company. dovetailing offers some hope but the pain is not proportionate to the benefit. how bout making it proportional to the anticipated service lost via this combination ie if AWA drops something - a calculation of the impact to employees is made and vice versa. this offers a sense of fairness it seems to me versus a straight seniority merge.

[post="303107"][/post]​

Might seem fair now, but down the road when another merger is thrown on the table by a larger more senior Legacy carrier and more cuts are needed where is our bargaining tool if we change policies now? I think we've pretty much all have discovered you cannot get back what you used to have! We have to be careful of what we ask for, because we'll get it......and then it will come back to haunt us in the end! The "Ancient" carrier has been dwindling down for several years now with cuts, layoffs, etc.,. has it been fair? Not to the employees, but the Airline is still around and that's all management cares about...it's more of a numbers game and the employees have always been pawns in that game!

 

[ebwgs]

" how bout making it proportional to the anticipated service...."

How bout making it date of hire?

 

[ebwgs]

QUOTE(mwa @ Sep 12 2005, 04:15 PM)
you may be right as far as the future - but those investors were not jumping up and down to help AAA w/o AWA.


This is a very innocent question on my part: When did the investors start jumping up and down for HP prior to the merger announcement? Besides the ATSB loan awarded HP soon after 9/11, I don't remember hearing of any investors tripping over themselves to loan them money. It seems to me that there was a level of symbiosis between US Aiways and America West that made the deal attractive and doable to the investment community, and had that symbiotic chemistry not have prevailed, I doubt that we would sitting here pondering the fate of "The New US Airways" as a going concern.

Let there be no doubt that US Airways brought something to the merger picnic, and that Bruce Lakefield's invaluable financial acumen not only seasoned the burgers and grilled the kabobs, he also inked the deal that will set the New US Airways up to long be a player in this aviation minefield known as the airline industry.

 

[Bear96]

QUOTE(mwa @ Sep 12 2005, 04:15 PM)
you may be right as far as the future - but those investors were not jumping up and down to help AAA w/o AWA.
This is a very innocent question on my part: When did the investors start jumping up and down for HP prior to the merger announcement? Besides the ATSB loan awarded HP soon after 9/11, I don't remember hearing of any investors tripping over themselves to loan them money.

[post="304294"][/post]​

This is an innocent question on my part too, since I don't know the answer for sure. But was HP even looking for investors? It seems like U was, in the form of exit financing in order to exit BK. But I don't remember that HP had a particular need for a massive loan the way U did. If so, your point is not very relevant -- investors wouldn't have been "tripping all over themselves" to lend money to HP if HP wasn't seeking that.

 

[hulagirl]

Why do these things matter? If someone needs to read about a savior, try reading the Holy Bible. If you want to read about the airline business, there are numerous financial publications that can detail,speculate, and debate the issue for you.
The fact is, the merger is done, the investors put their money on the table for the TWO carriers to merge. This tit-for-tat argument is moot.
If I may suggest that we all use this energy towards making this merger a success.

 

[traderjake]

The surviving carrier's employees should not suffer as a result of the merger.

DOH is a windfall for the US employees.

Can I ask you a question?

Why did you vote in a union with such a ridiculous merger policy?

If it does go DOH any US F/A who bids into PHX or LAS should get a 9/27/05 DOH for bidding and furlough purposes.

 

[Fly]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long. It IS DOH. It was never hidden by AFA that this is the right way to merge seniority lists.

In the case of furlough, yes, it would be unfortunate for the AWA f/a's. Otherwise, it is fair. (not sure about US f/a's on furlough though, have they addressed that yet?) I would think that the US f/a's should stay on furlough until needed but once back they take their DOH back, IMHO.

Here is the wording on DOH:


Within all the uncertainty, however, we do have a measure of protection. Our AFA “current Flight Attendant seniority dateâ€￾ merger policy is a document of certainty in the event two AFA carriers are merged. It is a document that provides us support should we find ourselves defending our seniority before an arbitrator or a judge. It is a document that provides us support should we find ourselves defending our seniority before an arbitrator or a judge. For example, TWA Flight Attendants suffered greatly when American took over its operations, as all of the TWA Flight Attendants -- even long-term veterans – were tacked onto the bottom of American’s seniority lists. TWA Flight Attendants fought this in the courts, but their case was recently dismissed in its entirety by federal court; their seniority was lost forever. TWA Flight Attendants also joined forces with Missouri Senator Bond in an attempt to address the issue through legislation. Those efforts gained little attention and were also unsuccessful. Without an existing merger policy, TWA Flight Attendants had little more than vacant promises by American Airlines and APFA in preserving their seniority rights.

 

[proudf/a]

The surviving carrier's employees should not suffer as a result of the merger.

DOH is a windfall for the US employees.

Can I ask you a question?

Why did you vote in a union with such a ridiculous merger policy?

If it does go DOH any US F/A who bids into PHX or LAS should get a 9/27/05 DOH for bidding and furlough purposes.

[post="304456"][/post]​

Any HP f/a that who bids PHL to fly to the 14 European cities US services should get 9/27/05 for DOH for bidding and furlough purposes. Believe it or not there are alot of f/a's that would much prefer to fly to Europe over the desert!

 

[hp_fa]

As of now I know of NO AWA FA who intends to bid PHL, or any other U domicile.

You know, the way some folks keep mentioning the International stuff sounds like a used car salesman hawking lemons.

Keep your International.

 

[proudf/a]

As of now I know of NO AWA FA who intends to bid PHL, or any other U domicile.

You know, the way some folks keep mentioning the International stuff sounds like a used car salesman hawking lemons.

Keep your International.

[post="304489"][/post]​

Gladly keep our Int'l and Caribbean flying...and you can keep your desert. BTW I havent run across anyone who has their sights on PHX either. So this all may be a wash!