Why I Voted Yes

[OldGuy@AA]

I voted No on the last offer & even held a vote No sign in front of the base but I voted YES on this one because I know what the line has planned for Overhaul & I'm hoping to get one last contract, then get out before their diabolical plan can take place, I think it will pass but we all have to do what is in our and our families best interest & I just did. I know some will be mad but their are always winners & losers in every contest, I'm hoping to win one last time & get the hell out of this business BEFORE it all goes to hell.
I'm sick & tired of all the turmoil & dealing with crap.

I voted NO on the last offer and held a sign in front of the base and I voted NO on this offer and will hold my sign again. Listen to Bob. This gives AA 6 years to line up third party maintenance so our next offer will have threats of outsourcing to scare us into voting another terrible deal. You are tired of the industry? I am tired of having the lowest pay and benefits in the industry. The only way to vote is no. There is no time table for negotiations, but AA will need financing and won't get it without a concensual deal. C'mon Dan. Think about it.

 

[Raptorman49]

That is your answer to PROOF that the Teamsters and the TWU are in a partnership?

That is your answer?
Really?

What you are trying to escape is the fact that you keep buying into lies and fear and then get called out on it.
No escaping, just admit you were wrong and help us get better together.

You just don't get it the whole Union thing whether AMFA or the Teamsters is mind numbing Cult crap ....All Unions are Cults, the definition of a cult is worshiping a person or organization instead of being Individuals that worship NOTHING.

If you want to worship AMFA then worship them I could careless, I worship no one & nothing & hate Extremism thinking about anything.

 

[Raptorman49]

I voted NO on the last offer and held a sign in front of the base and I voted NO on this offer and will hold my sign again. Listen to Bob. This gives AA 6 years to line up third party maintenance so our next offer will have threats of outsourcing to scare us into voting another terrible deal. You are tired of the industry? I am tired of having the lowest pay and benefits in the industry. The only way to vote is no. There is no time table for negotiations, but AA will need financing and won't get it without a concensual deal. C'mon Dan. Think about it.

The next contract won't be my problem Tom because I won't be here after this one & if your smart you will make plans to leave as well, Overhaul is mostly going away, I think AA will keep maybe 1,500 people in Overhaul after we get the new planes but that's about it, you probably will be among those 1,500 people that will still be here but after the line out numbers overhaul it won't matter that your still here because your raises will be over & theirs will start.
Wait & see, the line will get their payback you can bet on it, I don't blame them but hopefully they won't get it for 6 more years.

 

[TWU informer]

The next contract won't be my problem Tom because I won't be here after this one & if your smart you will make plans to leave as well, Overhaul is mostly going away, I think AA will keep maybe 1,500 people in Overhaul after we get the new planes but that's about it, you probably will be among those 1,500 people that will still be here but after the line out numbers overhaul it won't matter that your still here because your raises will be over & theirs will start.
Wait & see, the line will get their payback you can bet on it, I don't blame them but hopefully they won't get it for 6 more years.

You will vote for this, we will get AMFA, that scenario might happen, and you and the industrial unions will blame AMFA, when it was you and the TWU that did it.

 

[Raptorman49]

Well now that I have you guys all stirred up I will bail out to watch some good old scifi while you guys bounce off the walls & freak out about it.

Have fun. B)

 

[Realityck]

The Pilots are probably going to Vote this down

If we reject this and the pilots and Flight attendants accept this the TWU would make you vote on it again before abrogation (is this the life preserver we’re supposed to be holding on to – in case you’re wrong again, as you were in 2010?)

BTW, I don’t have a crystal ball like you do, but my instincts tell me the Pilots will vote for the T/A. No telling what the Flight Attendants will do.


Bob Owens: In spite of your crystal ball gazing, I don’t believe your predictions are any better now than they were when you and your AMFA buddies recommended a NO Vote on the 2010 T/A. You keep telling us to vote no, and things keep going down hill.


As an AMT, I’ve been through the struggle brought on by Deregulation that was introduced in 1978, whose full effect didn’t hit the airline unions until the early 1980’s. Although some members, as they do now, claimed it was all a farce and we should just strike and shut the company down, in 1983 the TWU’s membership in a +75% ratification vote, decided to deal realistically with the issues that threatened us all.

Under these adverse conditions even though every union struggled to protect their respective members, most carriers were eventually forced to file for Bankruptcy. Some several times, and some went out of business altogether because their managements’ couldn’t adapt and compete in the new deregulated environment.

There were no easy answers then, and there aren’t any now.

I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.

Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA’s (Delle’s) rallying cry of “we never gave concessions” forced him into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.

I firmly believe that the 2010 T/A which was recommended by the TWU, while not all we would have liked it to be, would have addressed some of the issues we needed corrected, and positioned us to fight another day. I also have a problem with the “just vote no” mentality that many of the AMFA supporters/sympathizers have. It reminds me of Delle’s naïve approach in expecting some miracle to save us from ourselves should the T/A fail, the Judge revoke the contracts, and leave us hanging on the end of a rope while the NMB muddles through some unknown exercise that has failed to produce anything of value to us yet.

Do I believe everything this or any other union does is above reproach, no. But neither do I believe jumping off a cliff just to prove you can, will do anything to enhance our careers and provide for the security of our families.

BTW, I walked the TWU picket line on the 21day strike in 69, and have been suspended for “alleged” job actions, so I have no problem with confrontations. What I do have a problem with is blindly following the pied pipers in our midst who preach the just say no theme without a clue as to how that’s going to drastically change the situation we’ve placed ourselves in by turning down the 2010 T/A.

 

[Buck]

The Pilots are probably going to Vote this down

If we reject this and the pilots and Flight attendants accept this the TWU would make you vote on it again before abrogation (is this the life preserver we’re supposed to be holding on to – in case you’re wrong again, as you were in 2010?)

BTW, I don’t have a crystal ball like you do, but my instincts tell me the Pilots will vote for the T/A. No telling what the Flight Attendants will do.


Bob Owens: In spite of your crystal ball gazing, I don’t believe your predictions are any better now than they were when you and your AMFA buddies recommended a NO Vote on the 2010 T/A. You keep telling us to vote no, and things keep going down hill.


As an AMT, I’ve been through the struggle brought on by Deregulation that was introduced in 1978, whose full effect didn’t hit the airline unions until the early 1980’s. Although some members, as they do now, claimed it was all a farce and we should just strike and shut the company down, in 1983 the TWU’s membership in a +75% ratification vote, decided to deal realistically with the issues that threatened us all.

Under these adverse conditions even though every union struggled to protect their respective members, most carriers were eventually forced to file for Bankruptcy. Some several times, and some went out of business altogether because their managements’ couldn’t adapt and compete in the new deregulated environment.

There were no easy answers then, and there aren’t any now.

I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.

Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA’s (Delle’s) rallying cry of “we never gave concessions” forced him into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.

I firmly believe that the 2010 T/A which was recommended by the TWU, while not all we would have liked it to be, would have addressed some of the issues we needed corrected, and positioned us to fight another day. I also have a problem with the “just vote no” mentality that many of the AMFA supporters/sympathizers have. It reminds me of Delle’s naïve approach in expecting some miracle to save us from ourselves should the T/A fail, the Judge revoke the contracts, and leave us hanging on the end of a rope while the NMB muddles through some unknown exercise that has failed to produce anything of value to us yet.

Do I believe everything this or any other union does is above reproach, no. But neither do I believe jumping off a cliff just to prove you can, will do anything to enhance our careers and provide for the security of our families.

BTW, I walked the TWU picket line on the 21day strike in 69, and have been suspended for “alleged” job actions, so I have no problem with confrontations. What I do have a problem with is blindly following the pied pipers in our midst who preach the just say no theme without a clue as to how that’s going to drastically change the situation we’ve placed ourselves in by turning down the 2010 T/A.

Since you failed to answer the last time about your participation in the last strike at AA,please answer now.

What did you achieve?

 

[Buck]

Well now that I have you guys all stirred up I will bail out to watch some good old scifi while you guys bounce off the walls & freak out about it.

Have fun. B)

I see, when you were a little kid did you always play the part of the alien?

 

[aapitbull]

I'm not a Union Man haven't you been reading my post's ? I can't stand Unions or putting my career in the hands of people I don't trust, that means you & the rest of my coworkers & of course I'm looking out for myself if your a humanitarian then good luck with that, i'm a hermit & can't wait to have a whole lot of alone time when I retire away from people & Unions & hostile Executives that want to crush me every chance they get so they can get rich, you can have ALL that crap.
I'm Parachuting out of this tailspin Industry.

And he is supporting the TEAMSTERS follow his lead!!!

 

[aapitbull]

The Pilots are probably going to Vote this down

If we reject this and the pilots and Flight attendants accept this the TWU would make you vote on it again before abrogation (is this the life preserver we’re supposed to be holding on to – in case you’re wrong again, as you were in 2010?)

BTW, I don’t have a crystal ball like you do, but my instincts tell me the Pilots will vote for the T/A. No telling what the Flight Attendants will do.


Bob Owens: In spite of your crystal ball gazing, I don’t believe your predictions are any better now than they were when you and your AMFA buddies recommended a NO Vote on the 2010 T/A. You keep telling us to vote no, and things keep going down hill.


As an AMT, I’ve been through the struggle brought on by Deregulation that was introduced in 1978, whose full effect didn’t hit the airline unions until the early 1980’s. Although some members, as they do now, claimed it was all a farce and we should just strike and shut the company down, in 1983 the TWU’s membership in a +75% ratification vote, decided to deal realistically with the issues that threatened us all.

Under these adverse conditions even though every union struggled to protect their respective members, most carriers were eventually forced to file for Bankruptcy. Some several times, and some went out of business altogether because their managements’ couldn’t adapt and compete in the new deregulated environment.

There were no easy answers then, and there aren’t any now.

I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.

Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA’s (Delle’s) rallying cry of “we never gave concessions” forced him into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.

I firmly believe that the 2010 T/A which was recommended by the TWU, while not all we would have liked it to be, would have addressed some of the issues we needed corrected, and positioned us to fight another day. I also have a problem with the “just vote no” mentality that many of the AMFA supporters/sympathizers have. It reminds me of Delle’s naïve approach in expecting some miracle to save us from ourselves should the T/A fail, the Judge revoke the contracts, and leave us hanging on the end of a rope while the NMB muddles through some unknown exercise that has failed to produce anything of value to us yet.

Do I believe everything this or any other union does is above reproach, no. But neither do I believe jumping off a cliff just to prove you can, will do anything to enhance our careers and provide for the security of our families.

BTW, I walked the TWU picket line on the 21day strike in 69, and have been suspended for “alleged” job actions, so I have no problem with confrontations. What I do have a problem with is blindly following the pied pipers in our midst who preach the just say no theme without a clue as to how that’s going to drastically change the situation we’ve placed ourselves in by turning down the 2010 T/A.

Here is your problem Brother, you are one of about 250 A scalers left on the property and the guys like me do not share your view of how to approach this BK, this company filed with 4.2 Billion in cash and while they are paying a army of lawyers 300 dollars a word they are still stacking up money like cord wood in the bank, at least 2000 of our fellow Mechanic's are to be laid off and everyone else's job will be put at risk because there is no security clause, it is very unlikely that anything in this deal will be lost if the judge imposes it on us.Therefore I cannot see a single reason to vote for this POS You may just want to get your buyout and leave I do not know although that would fit the A scaler model.

 

[Mr Red]

The Pilots are probably going to Vote this down

If we reject this and the pilots and Flight attendants accept this the TWU would make you vote on it again before abrogation (is this the life preserver we’re supposed to be holding on to – in case you’re wrong again, as you were in 2010?)

BTW, I don’t have a crystal ball like you do, but my instincts tell me the Pilots will vote for the T/A. No telling what the Flight Attendants will do.


Bob Owens: In spite of your crystal ball gazing, I don’t believe your predictions are any better now than they were when you and your AMFA buddies recommended a NO Vote on the 2010 T/A. You keep telling us to vote no, and things keep going down hill.


As an AMT, I’ve been through the struggle brought on by Deregulation that was introduced in 1978, whose full effect didn’t hit the airline unions until the early 1980’s. Although some members, as they do now, claimed it was all a farce and we should just strike and shut the company down, in 1983 the TWU’s membership in a +75% ratification vote, decided to deal realistically with the issues that threatened us all.

Under these adverse conditions even though every union struggled to protect their respective members, most carriers were eventually forced to file for Bankruptcy. Some several times, and some went out of business altogether because their managements’ couldn’t adapt and compete in the new deregulated environment.

There were no easy answers then, and there aren’t any now.

I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.

Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA’s (Delle’s) rallying cry of “we never gave concessions” forced him into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.

I firmly believe that the 2010 T/A which was recommended by the TWU, while not all we would have liked it to be, would have addressed some of the issues we needed corrected, and positioned us to fight another day. I also have a problem with the “just vote no” mentality that many of the AMFA supporters/sympathizers have. It reminds me of Delle’s naïve approach in expecting some miracle to save us from ourselves should the T/A fail, the Judge revoke the contracts, and leave us hanging on the end of a rope while the NMB muddles through some unknown exercise that has failed to produce anything of value to us yet.

Do I believe everything this or any other union does is above reproach, no. But neither do I believe jumping off a cliff just to prove you can, will do anything to enhance our careers and provide for the security of our families.

BTW, I walked the TWU picket line on the 21day strike in 69, and have been suspended for “alleged” job actions, so I have no problem with confrontations. What I do have a problem with is blindly following the pied pipers in our midst who preach the just say no theme without a clue as to how that’s going to drastically change the situation we’ve placed ourselves in by turning down the 2010 T/A.

You Don't seem to know the facts,I've heard no former NWA Mechs say anything bad about AMFA.I have heard alot about IAM
and their actions.The groups that passed the 2010 T/A have not faired any better than AMTs This company seems to have all the money they need except when it comes to the EMPLOYEES that do the Work!

 

[whatajoke]

I am a no vote. Even though there will not be another last best offer.
They will abrogate and stick it to us but I will not give them the ok.
I will wait another 2 years if that is what it takes to get a fair contract.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Just voted NO! Feels good to stand up against lies and threats.

This t/a will fail by a larger percentage than the last t/a.

 

[aapitbull]

Just voted NO! Feels good to stand up against lies and threats.

This t/a will fail by a larger percentage than the last t/a.

From your mouth to Gods ears, that is exactly what needs to happen!

 

[Bob Owens]

The Pilots are probably going to Vote this down

If we reject this and the pilots and Flight attendants accept this the TWU would make you vote on it again before abrogation (is this the life preserver we’re supposed to be holding on to – in case you’re wrong again, as you were in 2010?)

BTW, I don’t have a crystal ball like you do, but my instincts tell me the Pilots will vote for the T/A. No telling what the Flight Attendants will do.


Bob Owens: In spite of your crystal ball gazing, I don’t believe your predictions are any better now than they were when you and your AMFA buddies recommended a NO Vote on the 2010 T/A. You keep telling us to vote no, and things keep going down hill.


As an AMT, I’ve been through the struggle brought on by Deregulation that was introduced in 1978, whose full effect didn’t hit the airline unions until the early 1980’s. Although some members, as they do now, claimed it was all a farce and we should just strike and shut the company down, in 1983 the TWU’s membership in a +75% ratification vote, decided to deal realistically with the issues that threatened us all.

Under these adverse conditions even though every union struggled to protect their respective members, most carriers were eventually forced to file for Bankruptcy. Some several times, and some went out of business altogether because their managements’ couldn’t adapt and compete in the new deregulated environment.

There were no easy answers then, and there aren’t any now.

I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.

Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA’s (Delle’s) rallying cry of “we never gave concessions” forced him into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.

I firmly believe that the 2010 T/A which was recommended by the TWU, while not all we would have liked it to be, would have addressed some of the issues we needed corrected, and positioned us to fight another day. I also have a problem with the “just vote no” mentality that many of the AMFA supporters/sympathizers have. It reminds me of Delle’s naïve approach in expecting some miracle to save us from ourselves should the T/A fail, the Judge revoke the contracts, and leave us hanging on the end of a rope while the NMB muddles through some unknown exercise that has failed to produce anything of value to us yet.

Do I believe everything this or any other union does is above reproach, no. But neither do I believe jumping off a cliff just to prove you can, will do anything to enhance our careers and provide for the security of our families.

BTW, I walked the TWU picket line on the 21day strike in 69, and have been suspended for “alleged” job actions, so I have no problem with confrontations. What I do have a problem with is blindly following the pied pipers in our midst who preach the just say no theme without a clue as to how that’s going to drastically change the situation we’ve placed ourselves in by turning down the 2010 T/A.

Isnt this the same post you put up a few weeks ago? Yes you claim you walked the picket line in 1969, and since then you've agreed to give away everything rather than risk walking it again. Sorry Benedict Arnold fought a few battles for the Colonies before he switched as well. walking the picket line 40 years ago doesnt make up for rolling over the last 30.