Why I Voted Yes

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You know no one wants outsourcing but reality is virtually every airline has done it and is doing it despite unions trying to stop it. What is going to happen is you will accept substandard wages and benefits to save jobs which is admirable but at the end of the day those jobs you saved will be lost anyway and the rest who survive will be at the bottom of the ladder in wages and benefits because you were all willing to work for less to save jobs while everyone else is making 10 to 15 dollars an hour more than you guys will.

Exactly, well put.

Still you didn't mention the future rounds of bankruptcies. Yep, no sooner will these contracts be in place as soon as the competition heats up again, and the balance sheets bleed red. Most airlines will reenter the courts seeking relief and the yeahs and nays will again be recounted. You see as long as the US laws remain the same, protecting badly mananged companies, by allowing them to strip you guys of your livelihoods and resurface as LLC and such, you are doomed.

Congress only protects two facets of the transportation industry the trains and trucks, airlines are not fixed to a certain city, or can be rerouted with ease. Airlines are not exactly a real vote getter, so they hang the industry out to dry every time.
 
Why? Are you going to leave the boards after the LBO V2.0 is turned down?
If it fails a LBO V3.0 is already to be distributed to the members.

Yes I suspect there will be a lot less people on this board after the contract passes today if by chance it didn't pass I have no doubt there would be another offer eventually but it could be a couple years down the road & by that time we would have lost thousands of dollars but it's all irrelevant because I believe it did pass. :)
 
Yes I suspect there will be a lot less people on this board after the contract passes today if by chance it didn't pass I have no doubt there would be another offer eventually but it could be a couple years down the road & by that time we would have lost thousands of dollars but it's all irrelevant because I believe it did pass. :)

YES or NO the Tulsa Base will be dropping heads, both on the initial layoff and via attrition and/or more layoffs in the near future.

Anyone that voted YES to "save jobs" will be very disappointed soon.

Greed and Fear were the only two reasons to vote yes.

Anger and Frustration were the two reasons to vote no.

There really is no right or wrong, because when your union and your management leadership is failing, they cannot be saved with concessions.

Maybe we can soon put this behind us and move on with replacing the TWU! Before none of us are left working.
 
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You know no one wants outsourcing but reality is virtually every airline has done it and is doing it despite unions trying to stop it. What is going to happen is you will accept substandard wages and benefits to save jobs which is admirable but at the end of the day those jobs you saved will be lost anyway and the rest who survive will be at the bottom of the ladder in wages and benefits because you were all willing to work for less to save jobs while everyone else is making 10 to 15 dollars an hour more than you guys will.[/background]


Overspeed: No I was willing to accept number two wages (May 2010 TA) and not give away jobs.


It's interesting how the Vote No crowd (Owens - Peterson- JR - AMFA Clones) ignore the fact they recommended the No Vote in 2010 and now.

Following their recommendation it was turned down but they were right! They said things would change and they did, they got worse!

Hopefully this T/A passes so we can't find out how how many other improvements we're going to get, or not.
 
Exactly, well put.

Still you didn't mention the future rounds of bankruptcies. Yep, no sooner will these contracts be in place as soon as the competition heats up again, and the balance sheets bleed red. Most airlines will reenter the courts seeking relief and the yeahs and nays will again be recounted. You see as long as the US laws remain the same, protecting badly mananged companies, by allowing them to strip you guys of your livelihoods and resurface as LLC and such, you are doomed.
.

Well I can see the BK but without the red ink. If AA can file with over $4 billion in the bank and 500 new airplanes on order and exit with over $6 billion in the bank and 500 new airplanes on order then why cant UAL and others file simply because they arent "as" profitable?

If we vote YES we cant blame BK because we did it to ourselves.
 
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The main reason I voted yes was because AA was in bankruptcy. I thought by giving the company their term sheet asks with a no vote was giving up and quitting. I just couldn't roll over like that.
 
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]You know no one wants outsourcing but reality is virtually every airline has done it and is doing it despite unions trying to stop it. What is going to happen is you will accept substandard wages and benefits to save jobs which is admirable but at the end of the day those jobs you saved will be lost anyway and the rest who survive will be at the bottom of the ladder in wages and benefits because you were all willing to work for less to save jobs while everyone else is making 10 to 15 dollars an hour more than you guys will.[/background]

Overspeed: No I was willing to accept number two wages (May 2010 TA) and not give away jobs.


It's interesting how the Vote No crowd (Owens - Peterson- JR - AMFA Clones) ignore the fact they recommended the No Vote in 2010 and now.

Following their recommendation it was turned down but they were right! They said things would change and they did, they got worse!

Keeps speading the lies and the Myths, maybe someday someone will believe you.
 
YES or NO the Tulsa Base will be dropping heads, both on the initial layoff and via attrition and/or more layoffs in the near future.

Anyone that voted YES to "save jobs" will be very disappointed soon.

Greed and Fear were the only two reasons to vote yes.

Anger and Frustration were the two reasons to vote no.

There really is no right or wrong, because when your union and your management leadership is failing, they cannot be saved with concessions.

Maybe we can soon put this behind us and move on with replacing the TWU! Before none of us are left working.

I agree with this post with the exception of your unfortunate continued use of the word "fear". I prefer to view it as a reluctance to roll the dice one more time. It would seem to be betting against the odds, and for a lot of people, this is gambling and a game that they no longer have the intestinal fortitude to play. They have thier reasons for voting yes, many of them very valid. You have to admit, Uncle Bob and his sycophants do not have a good track record.

Either way, the base is ultimately screwed. The line is screwed for likely the next 2 or 8 years.
 
Well I can see the BK but without the red ink. If AA can file with over $4 billion in the bank and 500 new airplanes on order and exit with over $6 billion in the bank and 500 new airplanes on order then why cant UAL and others file simply because they arent "as" profitable?

If we vote YES we cant blame BK because we did it to ourselves.

I would say it is the $10 Billion loss they have claimed over a decade that separates them from the not as profitable question/statement. No matter if it was self inflicted or however they achieved such a loss it has seemed to work in their favor.
 
Exactly, well put.

Still you didn't mention the future rounds of bankruptcies. Yep, no sooner will these contracts be in place as soon as the competition heats up again, and the balance sheets bleed red. Most airlines will reenter the courts seeking relief and the yeahs and nays will again be recounted. You see as long as the US laws remain the same, protecting badly mananged companies, by allowing them to strip you guys of your livelihoods and resurface as LLC and such, you are doomed.

Congress only protects two facets of the transportation industry the trains and trucks, airlines are not fixed to a certain city, or can be rerouted with ease. Airlines are not exactly a real vote getter, so they hang the industry out to dry every time.
At some point, the skilled AMTs will wake up to the fact that this job is not worth it anymore and vote with their feet! In fact, a lot of them have already!!!! ----------- There is life after AA! Life is more than just Airplanes!
 
The main reason I voted yes was because AA was in bankruptcy. I thought by giving the company their term sheet asks with a no vote was giving up and quitting. I just couldn't roll over like that.
In bankruptcy with 5 billion in the bank!!! You my friend roled over and gave up by voting "YES".

AA and the TWU are liars and cheats with no good intentions but to screw the employees and make the fat cats fatter!
 
"Before you ask, No I am nowhere near perfect and yes I make plenty of mistakes but I don't throw myself out there as you do trying to represent anything. I look forward to your answer hopefully it's genuine and not defensive."

And you are?
 
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