Why I Voted Yes

[AA89]

Nope, we don't have leverage. We are in BK and no one asked for it. Quite a few 2010 yes voters are now no voters just because they refuse to bend over again.
That 15% Line cap is for spend, no? Well if a station becomes an Eagle station it drops from the formula, right? Gone forever.......

AA is ready? I'm glad they are because TIMCO wasn't and according to The Reamer the ink isn't dry on where to send the 777s.

 

[TWU informer]

Nope, we don't have leverage. We are in BK and no one asked for it. Quite a few 2010 yes voters are now no voters just because they refuse to bend over again.
That 15% Line cap is for spend, no? Well if a station becomes an Eagle station it drops from the formula, right? Gone forever.......

AA is ready? I'm glad they are because TIMCO wasn't and according to The Reamer the ink isn't dry on where to send the 777s.

I voted YES in 2010, but no on this turd.

777's will be going to Hong Kong a little birdie told me.

 

[Overspeed]

You sound defeated here,

Do you already know something about the vote count that we do not know?

No.

 

[Overspeed]

You sound defeated here,

Do you already know something about the vote count that we do not know?

From the APA on the their TA.


We recognize that many of the “no” arguments seem compelling:
· “If AMR wants us to vote for this tentative agreement, it must be bad.”
· “By voting no, we’ll go back to the table and management will sweeten the deal like they always have.”
· “If we vote yes, we’ll end up working under this sub-standard contact for 10 years.”
· “AMR must have consensual CBAs to exit bankruptcy.”

· A “yes” vote would empower AMR management.


"Our advisers, however, have been adamant that the best way to have control over our own destiny is to put the 1113 process behind us and secure the claim, which will make APA the single largest stakeholder of American Airlines," the message said.

Read more here: http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2012/08/apa-leaders-final-plea-to-pilots-on-contract-vote.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy​

Read more here: http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2012/08/apa-leaders-final-plea-to-pilots-on-contract-vote.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy​

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2012/08/apa-leaders-final-plea-to-pilots-on-contract-vote.html#storylink=cpy

I'd like to dedicate this to all those of the vote no coalition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDPPrrc

 

[Realityck]

Why American Airlines' Pilots Need Vote Yes

To say that I have been bombarded over the last week with emails pertaining to the American Airlines' pilot TA vote would be an understatement. This is not to say that the voting that is also going on with the airline's flight attendants and its TWU groups which did not vote for the "last best" TAs are also not important.

But we all know how this works. The pilot union vote is the one that carries the most clout.
While I already voiced my opinion on this matter two weeks ago in PlaneBusiness Banter, I am going to say it again today -- very clearly and very publicly.

If you are a pilot for American Airlines -- you have to put aside the emotional firestorm that has erupted over the last several days, a result of an email that was circulated within the pilot group concerning "conversations" and "comments" involving both the airline's Chief Pilot John Hale and SVP of Operations Jim Ream.

You have to stop thinking that there is a "deal" that is going to happen between JetBlue and American. It isn't going to happen. Period.
You have to stop thinking that a "yes" vote is a vote in favor of the current management.
You have to stop thinking that leaving your fate to a bankruptcy judge is preferable to the contract that is now up for grabs.
You have to remember that you cannot expect a contract that is part of a bankruptcy process to begin to come close to the contract that the Delta pilots recently ratified, or the contract that the United pilots now have on the table before them. Trying to compare these two contracts to the situation that you are now looking at with American is a case of "magical thinking."

As Ivan Rivera, Aliied Pilots Association Domicile Chairman put it so well in an email he sent out today,
Setting aside for a moment the “cannon shots” and the I Pads, it is clear that AA management has been in a horrible “state of confusion” to add to their incompetence. Confused and incompetent are not the qualities we need from our management, and this is why our primary goal should be to fight to replace them. Without new management, with vision and competence there will be no long-term future for this airline, regardless of what our CBA’s look like. I know we all want this; we just may disagree on the best way to get it done. We have two options going forward to try to achieve that goal, and each carries it’s own set of advantages and risks. The YES vote endorses APA’s strategy of “strategic and financial” leverage thru the 13.5% claim. The NO vote endorses a more traditional “labor” leverage that, depending on many factors, may result in a “financial” leverage as well. As you know, following all our advisor’s recommendations, I have endorsed the YES vote but I have also presented our options with a NO vote at our MIA Domicile meeting. I’ve also shared with you that I believe APA’s strategy following a YES vote will be the same as for a NO vote: We will continue to oppose the “stand alone” business plan-we will continue to oppose this management- we will continue seek the best path for all pilots and other AMR stakeholders, except our current management of course. However, there are two very significant risks with a NO vote: First is the loss of the economic value and power of the 13.5% claim; and second is the risk of doing irreparable damage to our SCOPE thru the outsourcing of the ERJ190-195 (DC-9 size A/C capable of decimating the bottom of our seniority list).

I agree.

I think the recent actions of management at the airline should only convince pilots even more that the current management team at the airline needs to go.

After all, there is a reason that the pilots at both Delta Air Lines and United Airlines are now looking at contracts that are much richer than the one you are now looking at. It's called -- management teams at those airlines realized years ago what had to be done in order to grow their businesses effectively. They realized that "heft" was necessary in order to be competitive on a global scale.

But voting "no" is not the way to get this management team out of the picture. Nor is it a way to tell the current management team to go F*$% themselves.

In fact, I would argue that a "no" vote makes the situation much more advantageous for the current management team. I know it sounds contrary. I know it sounds confusing.

But the pilot group will not "win" if the current contract is abrogated.

Finally, if you are foolish enough to think management will come back and "sweeten" the deal if the contract is abrogated-- while creditors are breathing down their neck to get as much money as possible out of the airline's coffers -- think again.

But this time think rationally. Not emotionally.

 

[Overspeed]

Nope, we don't have leverage. We are in BK and no one asked for it. Quite a few 2010 yes voters are now no voters just because they refuse to bend over again.
That 15% Line cap is for spend, no? Well if a station becomes an Eagle station it drops from the formula, right? Gone forever.......

AA is ready? I'm glad they are because TIMCO wasn't and according to The Reamer the ink isn't dry on where to send the 777s.

They don't have to give anything away. Vote no and it will be taken and then some. Hey BK was often talked about for the last four to five years and now its happened. I know we didn't ask for BK however it is here and the options are bad and worse. No one is telling you the TA is great, in fact it is bad but the alternative is worse. Much worse. People like Gary, Bob, Jorge, and JR would like you to believe that even though the contract will probably be abrogated on Aug 15th that somehow they will be able to continue negotiating for AA to stop further outsourcing, give us job protection, and UA type pay raises within a relatively short time. You really believe that? Come on now, how do we have that kind of leverage to make them not continue to keep most of what they will take from us. And are you saying you have faith in this group of Presidents to get us what they couldn't get outside BK the last five years. If so can you pass that joint this way...

 

[Overspeed]

I voted YES in 2010, but no on this turd.

777's will be going to Hong Kong a little birdie told me.

But the fly on the wall told me AMECO.

 

[AA89]

777s to HAECO in Hong Kong according to Jim Ream but the contract isn't signed yet. Allegedly a 30% cost savings over inhouse OH taking fuel, rework, downtime etc into the costs. Could that 30% be lower if the less skilled positions were paid according to market? Probably, but the company and the TWU would rather do it this way. JOBS/DUES FOR PAY.
As I said, I think most of the NO voters know that we have even less leverage in BK than we did in negotiations but you have an overhaul base full of guys about to see their jobs gone for no good reason and line guys with no guarantee that the ASM increase won't eliminate their jobs. So that is why you will see NO votes and AMFA cards.

BTW Overspeed. Can you see my point on the 15% cap on line outsourcing being meaningless if the ASM ratio is increased?

 

[Just the Facts II]

Then you are still a fool.

And you are a joke.

 

[JABORD]

They don't have to give anything away. Vote no and it will be taken and then some. Hey BK was often talked about for the last four to five years and now its happened. I know we didn't ask for BK however it is here and the options are bad and worse. No one is telling you the TA is great, in fact it is bad but the alternative is worse. Much worse. People like Gary, Bob, Jorge, and JR would like you to believe that even though the contract will probably be abrogated on Aug 15th that somehow they will be able to continue negotiating for AA to stop further outsourcing, give us job protection, and UA type pay raises within a relatively short time. You really believe that? Come on now, how do we have that kind of leverage to make them not continue to keep most of what they will take from us. And are you saying you have faith in this group of Presidents to get us what they couldn't get outside BK the last five years. If so can you pass that joint this way...

Hey speedy, that ball and chain called 'arrogance' is slowing you down! Do you really want us to believe that you've got this figured out more than those you've mentioned that have been battling for us on the front line? When your done smoking your crap, go get a piece of humble pie... then VOTE NO!

 

[Captain Reality]

The no voters are doomed. Number one because very few of them are willing to take on the judge and strike AA. Number two there are too many "scabs" in the ranks even if the no voters struck.

 

[1AA]

The no voters are doomed. Number one because very few of them are willing to take on the judge and strike AA. Number two there are too many "scabs" in the ranks even if the no voters struck.

A strike is called by the TWU. We know that will not happen. So we will never know if we can be united during a strike. I agree on the scabs. Many will cross the line. Even the TWU leadership will cross it's own line. If it gets close to a strike the TWU will cut a deal of some kind. Sign off on a agreement will be their shameless act.

 

[Strake]

Another reason I voted yes is because we gain absolutely nothing with a no vote. We voted no last time, (2010), passed up a signing bonus and raises etc... And here we are right back where we started. So we vote no, then what? How hard is it to understand that we don't have any real leverage in BK. I prefer to keep my foot in the door. Why just give up with a no vote? ARE YOU GUYS REALLY GOING TO GIVE UP AND VOTE NO? REALLY??? Think about it. Don't give up so easy you no voters!

 

[Overspeed]

Hey speedy, that ball and chain called 'arrogance' is slowing you down! Do you really want us to believe that you've got this figured out more than those you've mentioned that have been battling for us on the front line? When your done smoking your crap, go get a piece of humble pie... then VOTE NO!

I'm still voting yes and those guys aren't fighting for the 4,000 plus that will get WARN letters very soon if the TA goes down.

Gary, Ruiz, Rojas, and Owens are way over matched in their thinking which isn't saying much when consider the content of their statements over the years. Remember when they said BK was a scare tactic? That was a riot huh?

 

[Harold Nads]

Look at how excited Overspeed is. We can expect what, 10, or 20 posts from you today? Hopefully more jabs at Bob on BK, it never gets old. Is it your day off or you on UB?