who gives a sh*t anymore?

[WeAAsles]

One other thing. It's beyond ridiculous to compare the NYC MTA to our industry. Are there multiple Subway, Bus and Toll options to get to work in Manhattan?

A NYC commuter has to get on something to get to work unless he rides a bicycle through the snow. Captive audience there.

People have multiple choices of who or whether or not they fly. Can't afford the ticket, don't take the vacation. For too many years to count the airlines have had to lower fares to fill seats or compete. Consolidation and keeping a tight rein on overcapicity will absolutely lead to improvements. If the dummies running the airlines don't get too greedy in the future and screw it up?

 

[Bob Owens]

One other thing. It's beyond ridiculous to compare the NYC MTA to our industry. Are there multiple Subway, Bus and Toll options to get to work in Manhattan?
 

Before the TWU yes. There still are private lines as well. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Weaasles

I don't know Samuelsen so I can't say what kind of leader he is? All I know is the real leaders I've met in my career who should be in office never get the votes because they tell the members the biggest thing they don't want to hear.    The truth.
 

 
 
 
 

 
 
 Who told it like it is, ran, and could not get elected?

 

I agree 100% with consolidation. You and I are on the same page there. At one point the TWU represented all the workers at AA from Pilots on down.
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
Pilots? Dont think so. The only group at AA that left was the Flight Attendants.
 

 

Bob an honest comparison has to take into account EVERYONE in the US who does your job. Not just those in the majors but the minors as well. And the little chop shops out there as well. Since we're talking about airplanes here that can fly anywhere in the world to be repaired we could even compare the rates in other Countries as well. What would that look like? And I think it's beyond horrible to exclude your Brothers and Sisters in OH as a comparison. 
 

 
 
 
 

That's your opinion, and a pretty screwed up one at that.
 
Do you consider SWA and Jet Blue to be 'majors" or Minors? What about Fed Ex and UPS? 
 
Do plumbers in Tulsa OK make the same wage as plumbers in NY?  NO
 
A nurse in Manhattan earns a minimum of $100k a year, in Florida they make $60k, (Tulsa even less) same job, different location. different cost of living. Is it a "dishonest" comparison for Nurses in Manhattan to compare themselves only to other nurses in Manhattan where it costs $3000 a month for a decent sized apartment? Should they instead be willing to accept the same wage as a nurse in Florida where $3000 a month will pay a mortgage on a really nice house? Tulsa's representatives supported all the concessions so long as "the line doesn't get one penny more than Tulsa or this thing is DOA in Tulsa" to quote their representative. 
 
According to your logic the same would hold true for FSC's In some third world country they may pay $1 a day to someone to load planes, should that rate be figured into yours? 
 
Your argument makes no sense and is unrealistic. 
 
 

That's no different then me not giving a crap about small stations because I work in a hub. Divide and conquer is the Corporate mantra.
 

 
Yes, and T-III chose to let them close the small stations and keep pay high by industry standards, very high by your much broader view of who should be included for comparisons (Triangle, Allied, Hudson general), instead of fighting to keep both. T-III used to have staffing in more cities than Maint (the result of another deal where line maint was sold out) now T-III is down to just 17 cities and less than 8500 workers (25 cstations are staffed by T-I).   Look at our ramp in JFK now, half the guys out there loading planes, cleaning planes, fixing planes are no longer TWU. The Local did try and fight it but the International cut them down in court. All the building cleaning is outsourced. Why didn't Title III accept triangle wages for everyone in T-III and keep the work in house if they weren't willing to fight? After all you have to compare yourselves to everyone doing that work right?  All that was through ratified language that the TWU leadership recommended they accept, and the majority followed their recommendation. So did the leadership fail the members or did the members fail the leaders by doing what the leadership told them to do?
 
One thing I can say is that as a whole Line Maint voted against every concessionary deal that was brought before them over the last 30 years, every one was pushed through anyway, can you say the same? If Line mechanics voted NO and still got it jammed down their throats through the lies and fear mongering of the Union Leadership are they  wrong to feel defeated and demoralized and want nothing to do with the Union? Did the members fail or did the leadership of the Union who did everything they could to get us to accept concession after concession fail? 

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Who told it like it is, ran, and could not get elected?

Too many to count. From E-Board positions to Local Presidents. The one's who always win are the one's who make BS promises and then disappear after they get in. They make promises that those of us who are truly informed and pay attention know they can never live up to. Phonies who want a chair.




 
 
 
 
 
 
Pilots? Dont think so. The only group at AA that left was the Flight Attendants.

Long before I was a thought I had heard that the Pilots were a part of the TWU? If not certainly everyone else was.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
That's your opinion, and a pretty screwed up one at that.
 
Do you consider SWA and Jet Blue to be 'majors" or Minors? What about Fed Ex and UPS? 
 
Do plumbers in Tulsa OK make the same wage as plumbers in NY?  NO
 
A nurse in Manhattan earns a minimum of $100k a year, in Florida they make $60k, (Tulsa even less) same job, different location. different cost of living. Is it a "dishonest" comparison for Nurses in Manhattan to compare themselves only to other nurses in Manhattan where it costs $3000 a month for a decent sized apartment? Should they instead be willing to accept the same wage as a nurse in Florida where $3000 a month will pay a mortgage on a really nice house? Tulsa's representatives supported all the concessions so long as "the line doesn't get one penny more than Tulsa or this thing is DOA in Tulsa" to quote their representative. 

Are you again talking about BANKRUPTCY? Seriously Bob what should we all have done? Should we have "Shut her down" " Called her Bluff"  Told them "Hell No" ?????

The truth is just like you saw at NWA the scabs would have knocked you over and stepped on your head to get back through those hanger doors. You think I like saying this? NO I don't. But I call it like I see it and that's the people we work with today. Before the BK when there was strike talk I had people in DFW telling me NO WAY would they walk. I was even arguing with some people to go 3 lousy days if it happened because that's as long as I thought it would last. I'm not saying anything on here that the company doesn't already know. This is no big secret to them. They know the real fortitude of the members and especially in a sh*tty economy.

 
According to your logic the same would hold true for FSC's In some third world country they may pay $1 a day to someone to load planes, should that rate be figured into yours? 

Bags can't be loaded in China but a plane can fly there. And we have our own problems as well with so many people willing to do the job for what the average is in the US. About $12 per hour with no benefits. And tell me you don't talk to plenty of guys who think that there's nothing wrong with that if they can be paid better? I bet you hear that from your guys every day. 
 
Your argument makes no sense and is unrealistic. 
 
 
 
Yes, and T-III chose to let them close the small stations and keep pay high by industry standards, very high by your much broader view of who should be included for comparisons (Triangle, Allied, Hudson general), instead of fighting to keep both. T-III used to have staffing in more cities than Maint (the result of another deal where line maint was sold out) now T-III is down to just 17 cities and less than 8500 workers (25 cstations are staffed by T-I).   Look at our ramp in JFK now, half the guys out there loading planes, cleaning planes, fixing planes are no longer TWU. The Local did try and fight it but the International cut them down in court. All the building cleaning is outsourced. Why didn't Title III accept triangle wages for everyone in T-III and keep the work in house if they weren't willing to fight? After all you have to compare yourselves to everyone doing that work right?  All that was through ratified language that the TWU leadership recommended they accept, and the majority followed their recommendation. So did the leadership fail the members or did the members fail the leaders by doing what the leadership told them to do?

I agree with and totally support the idea of COLA's. But very hard to get when the largest local, DFW has the majority of votes. Can you imagine if they tried to say lower the rates in DFW so the guys in LGA could survive? I grew up in Queens, lived in DFW for 12 years and now live in MIA. I know what it cost to live in all 3. 

So yes they could have proposed it to keep stations open but there is no way it would have passed the vote. Besides I heard it was proposed by our NC and was promptly refused by the company?

 
One thing I can say is that as a whole Line Maint voted against every concessionary deal that was brought before them over the last 30 years, every one was pushed through anyway, can you say the same? If Line mechanics voted NO and still got it jammed down their throats through the lies and fear mongering of the Union Leadership are they  wrong to feel defeated and demoralized and want nothing to do with the Union? Did the members fail or did the leadership of the Union who did everything they could to get us to accept concession after concession fail? 

Don't you think it's the same problem again when DFW carries the majority of votes in fleet. I was living like a king there on $17 per hour. Hell I actually bought a home when I was still only making $13. Trust me Bob in the DFW employee parking lot there are no clunkers. Just row after row of shiny new F150's. When I used to tell those guys that the people in places like LGA, ORD and LAX should be making more than us all I ever heard was F that. So you guys have the same problems with TUL that fleet has with DFW. I hope you're working on some changes in the future?

So do I understand their frustration, YES. But I also understand what put us on this crappy road we've been on for almost 15 years and our union shouldn't take as much of the blame as people want to lay on them.
 

 

[Rogallo]

"You can't fix stupid" by Ron White.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The problem with a lot of UNIONS is they tend to attract parasites. A person's job should not be secure just because they are in a UNION and have seniority. How many of you have had to put up with stupid, irresponsible, lazy, incompetent, unmotivated people over the years simply because they carried a UNION card? How many of you have had to work under one of these people simply because they had the time (but not the qualifications) to fill a crew chief position.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]It should never be a UNION’s position to defend repetitive stupidity and incompetence. I would say 90 percent of the time a UNION has to defend someone it is most likely the same people over and over and has nothing to do with anything contractual. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]I believe these are the people that vote for concessionary contracts. This is a fundamental reason why UNION membership is so weak. The lazy, incompetent crowd is being bought off by undeserved job protection (or rather the promise of).  It is OK to take a concessionary contract when you contribute less than nothing and could not hold a job outside of a UNION. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]If you want to have a strong membership again the UNION needs to stop defending idiots that are in the office over and over and over and over and over again for non-contractual issues due to laziness, incompetence, and stupidity.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Think about it. [/SIZE]
 

I am actually surprised some agreed with me.
 
I thought I would have so many negatives it would set a record.
 
I did not make the post with the intent of causing controversy, only to point out that the "quality" of the membership might be an internal problem which the UNION itself creates. 
 
I am not saying a UNION should not defend it's members when contract has been broken. I am saying they need to stop defending stupidity. It hurts the company. It hurts the UNION. It hurts the customer.
 

Not for nothing, I'm currently non-union, and have to deal with more of those people now than I ever did while under a CBA.

I should also add that most of the "defending" I had to do as a union rep was a result of mgmt. shooting first and then asking questions, or a lack of due process.

I get what you're saying, though.

Like I always say, if you want to be treated like a professional, you have to act like one...

Unfortunately my experience has been the opposite. For every one decent person hired they got three fools like this. I give you exhibit A.
 
 
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57053-thank-god-almightyim-a-union-man/
 
NewHampshire Black Bears Posted 17 April 2014 - 01:13 AM
 
Today was (how shall I say) an interesting day at Amtrak, at Union Station in CHI, at my new position as a UNION ticket clerk.
 
It was like virtually every other day at 2pm with long lines.   Ahhh, but today was special. Today was Election day for the Top Dogs in the IAM.  (We're  TCU-IAM)  Our manager was in her usual position directing 'traffic' towards our positions BEFORE the last passenger BARELY vacated our individual positions.  (Amtrak is very strict about our 30 min. lunches.) (Thirty minutes means 30 mins, not 30.5 minutes)  The local president reminded us PM shift crew, to VOTE before the 6pm deadline, AND that we DO NOT have to use lunch time to vote.
Soooooo, a few of us, Locked up our Cash drawers, removed our keys, left the loooong passenger line standing, and stood in the looong line waiting to vote. (Ate a plate of food the UNION brought in, while standing in line)..........  NOT a peep was heard from our CS Manager, who mysteriously DISSAPEARED, wearing a Looooong Puss !
 
"MY", I said to myself. She Never said a F'n word about us 'Walking Off' in the middle of a very busy time. ????
 
(Maybe it was because of that Lovely young Spanish Girl from the DEPARTMENT of LABOR, who was OBSERVING all facets of the Election)
 
Ahhh.  The aroma of UNIONISM, in the early Afternoon. It sure can't be beat ! 
 
 
Unfortunately this idiot is the norm. This behavior is encouraged by today's UNIONs. Evidenced by the long, long voting lines and UNION provided lunches. 

 

[comatose]

God you guys make it tough on the colorblind.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
Too many to count. From E-Board positions to Local Presidents. 
 

 
 
 
Ok name one. 
 
 

 

 

Are you again talking about BANKRUPTCY? Seriously Bob what should we all have done? Should we have "Shut her down" " Called her Bluff"  Told them "Hell No" ?????

The truth is just like you saw at NWA the scabs would have knocked you over and stepped on your head to get back through those hanger doors. You think I like saying this? NO I don't. But I call it like I see it and that's the people we work with today. Before the BK when there was strike talk I had people in DFW telling me NO WAY would they walk. I was even arguing with some people to go 3 lousy days if it happened because that's as long as I thought it would last. I'm not saying anything on here that the company doesn't already know. This is no big secret to them. They know the real fortitude of the members and especially in a sh*tty economy.
 

 
 
 
Yes they filed C-11 and it was a scam. They went in with $5 billion, came out with $10 billion.  Yes we should have stood with the pilots and called their bluff because with $5 billion in cash AA was nowhere near liquidation, they didn't even claim they would liquidate to the court if they didn't get what they wanted.  Even though the Pilots stood alone they still came out with triple the Equity while giving up less in concessions and remained among the top paid pilots in the industry.  Basically the pilots came out unscathed compared to us and finally got the esop they were after. They had a pension that was far superior than anything pilots at other carriers had, something they would have lost in a PEB and got a 401K match that is nearly triple the rate we get and walked away with close to 15% of the company.  
 
There are other actions a Union can take besides a strike. 
 
 

 

 

Bags can't be loaded in China but a plane can fly there. And we have our own problems as well with so many people willing to do the job for what the average is in the US. About $12 per hour with no benefits. And tell me you don't talk to plenty of guys who think that there's nothing wrong with that if they can be paid better? I bet you hear that from your guys every day. 
 

 
 
 
 
And if the plane breaks in NY it has to be fixed in New York, you cant defer a hydraulic leak or a flat tire to China, even if you could you need a mechanic to defer it. 
 
 

 

 

I agree with and totally support the idea of COLA's. But very hard to get when the largest local, DFW has the majority of votes. Can you imagine if they tried to say lower the rates in DFW so the guys in LGA could survive? I grew up in Queens, lived in DFW for 12 years and now live in MIA. I know what it cost to live in all 3. 
 

 
 
 
That falls back to poor leadership. The fact is the company did not want it so the International did everything they could to undermine it. 
 

 

 

[SIZE=9pt]Don't you think it's the same problem again when DFW carries the majority of votes in fleet. [/SIZE]
 
 

 
 
 
Wrong again, currently DFW has 2255 out of 8496. So DFW may be the larger but they are not majority. They aren't even 30%. MIA is the same size as DFW. Our problem isn't as simple as Tulsa, Title II is also very weak as a group with only a few strongholds and we have those who don't vote at all. 
 
 

So do I understand their frustration, YES. But I also understand what put us on this crappy road we've been on for almost 15 years and our union shouldn't take as much of the blame as people want to lay on them
 

[SIZE=9pt]I agree the membership is not without fault, but is the end game assigning fault or getting better results? The majority of the responsibility lies with the leadership, that's part of the job,  to keep the members informed and educated so they can make the best decisions based on available information, and not simply be an echo chamber for management. Yes tell of the dangers, but also tell of the dangers of not fighting, explain that nobody ever went on strike because they didn't need the money, but if you are not willing to fight for it you will lose it, so you can take action when things are bad and you are struggling, or you can wait until you are even worse off and have even more of an excuse as to why you cant strike back.[/SIZE]

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

God you guys make it tough on the colorblind.

What do you mean?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
 
Ok name one. 

Most of the people I'm thinking about you wouldn't know. Not every election is only for those top spots.
 
 

 

 
 
 
 
Yes they filed C-11 and it was a scam. They went in with $5 billion, came out with $10 billion.  Yes we should have stood with the pilots and called their bluff because with $5 billion in cash AA was nowhere near liquidation, they didn't even claim they would liquidate to the court if they didn't get what they wanted.  Even though the Pilots stood alone they still came out with triple the Equity while giving up less in concessions and remained among the top paid pilots in the industry.  Basically the pilots came out unscathed compared to us and finally got the esop they were after. They had a pension that was far superior than anything pilots at other carriers had, something they would have lost in a PEB and got a 401K match that is nearly triple the rate we get and walked away with close to 15% of the company.  
 
There are other actions a Union can take besides a strike. 

I'm personally not going to compare myself to a pilot since I can't fly an airplane. Although from what I understand 200 pilots had left the company because of the stock price drop affecting their lump sum pension payout. 500 more were about to go and the APA was asked by the company to continue to let them fly and they would give them their payouts. The APA said no and the company filed the next day. Can't run an airline without people flying the planes. Personally that's the biggest reason I think they went into that courthouse.
 
 

 

 
 
 
 
 
And if the plane breaks in NY it has to be fixed in New York, you cant defer a hydraulic leak or a flat tire to China, even if you could you need a mechanic to defer it. 

Agreed but you have competition in every airport that is being paid less than you that would like to get their little hands on that work. The importance of SCOPE can't be neglected.
 
 

 

 
 
 
 
That falls back to poor leadership. The fact is the company did not want it so the International did everything they could to undermine it.

Wrong again, currently DFW has 2255 out of 8496. So DFW may be the larger but they are not majority. They aren't even 30%. MIA is the same size as DFW. Our problem isn't as simple as Tulsa, Title II is also very weak as a group with only a few strongholds and we have those who don't vote at all. 

I was mostly talking about who holds the most cards at that bargaining table. Before the BK during negotiations the RDU and BOS presidents were constantly being rollcalled by the hub Presidents. It got to the point where the RDU President just stopped going. And they did talk about the idea of COLA. What do you think the President of DFW would have to say about that? Sure let him bring that one back to his membership, NOT! Who sides with who in those negotiations is all that really matters.

And MIA isn't quite there yet in size to DFW but it's getting closer.
 
 
 
[SIZE=9pt]I agree the membership is not without fault, but is the end game assigning fault or getting better results? The majority of the responsibility lies with the leadership, that's part of the job

Agreed but the membership constantly votes in weak leaders from what I see anyway. And you and I don't see eye to eye on this one because I really believe the majority of members out there today want you to do everything for them. So how great the leader is may not even matter.

,  to keep the members informed and educated so they can make the best decisions based on available information, and not simply be an echo chamber for management. Yes tell of the dangers, but also tell of the dangers of not fighting, explain that nobody ever went on strike because they didn't need the money, but if you are not willing to fight for it you will lose it, so you can take action when things are bad and you are struggling, or you can wait until you are even worse off and have even more of an excuse as to why you cant strike back.[/SIZE]

How many scabbed the NWA strike? They have a website that lists hundreds and hundreds of names. That's the reality that I see. Do you see something different at AA?

http://exnwa.com/scab_main.htm

http://exnwa.com/pdf/scab%20list.pdf
 

 

[Bob Owens]

Most of the people I'm thinking about you wouldn't know. Not every election is only for those top spots.

Thats a cop out answer, you obviously are just spouting off. I spent four years at LGA and another 20 at JFK, If I don't know them I know someone who does.



 

I'm personally not going to compare myself to a pilot since I can't fly an airplane. Although from what I understand 200 pilots had left the company because of the stock price drop affecting their lump sum pension payout. 500 more were about to go and the APA was asked by the company to continue to let them fly and they would give them their payouts. The APA said no and the company filed the next day. Can't run an airline without people flying the planes. Personally that's the biggest reason I think they went into that courthouse.

That had nothing to do with what I said.


 

Agreed but you have competition in every airport that is being paid less than you that would like to get their little hands on that work.

If what you were saying was true then they would not be sending us on hundreds of field trips every year and they would have closed all the class two stations. the fact is there aren't a lot of options out there for line Maintenance. MACH II and the other contractors are staffed mostly by AA workers and from what I recall we got paid by the hours the jobs was listed as, example IDG 4 hours, do it in one and go, get paid for four. That was non-union where if they didn't cut deals you simply didn't go back because it was a side job.


 

How many scabbed the NWA strike? They have a website that lists hundreds and hundreds of names. That's the reality that I see. Do you see something different at AA?

Yes and there were thousands of RiF'd mechanics out there. AA had 300 just from NY. So the pool was full, now its empty. AA called back all 300 from NY, about a dozen came back. NWA never achieved full operations, they cut 20% of capacity on day one of the strike and were eventually absorbed by Delta, all of the other Unions except the pilots were thrown out of NWA as well. So the IAM lost, the FAs lost and the TWU lost but they lost without ever getting a chance to fight back.

 

[WeAAsles]

Thats a cop out answer, you obviously are just spouting off. I spent four years at LGA and another 20 at JFK, If I don't know them I know someone who does.

Bob I haven't worked in LGA in 17 years and even then I only had 2 years in. I'm talking about people in other stations. But if you need at least one name I'll give it to you. Gerald Kotinek. One of the best and most honest stewards I know and he doesn't win elections because of it.



 

That had nothing to do with what I said.

You said that Chapter 11 was a scam and I said why I really believe they went in. So of course it has to do with what you said. And pilots have more pull than anyone at an airline, at least IMO although others don't buy it.


 

If what you were saying was true then they would not be sending us on hundreds of field trips every year and they would have closed all the class two stations. the fact is there aren't a lot of options out there for line Maintenance. MACH II and the other contractors are staffed mostly by AA workers and from what I recall we got paid by the hours the jobs was listed as, example IDG 4 hours, do it in one and go, get paid for four. That was non-union where if they didn't cut deals you simply didn't go back because it was a side job.

That's great to hear for LINE maintenance and I know that you are a part of line maintenance. Do we fight for places like TUL too though? Their work is flying all over the globe.


 

Yes and there were thousands of RiF'd mechanics out there. AA had 300 just from NY. So the pool was full, now its empty. AA called back all 300 from NY, about a dozen came back. NWA never achieved full operations, they cut 20% of capacity on day one of the strike and were eventually absorbed by Delta, all of the other Unions except the pilots were thrown out of NWA as well. So the IAM lost, the FAs lost and the TWU lost but they lost without ever getting a chance to fight back.

Do we have any clue on that scab list I posted how many of them were out of work Mechanics and not AMFA guys who said "Screw You" I'm going back to work? Seems to me that I heard a ton of them crossed their own picket line.

Bob I'm not your enemy. I'll fight with you any day you want. But first let me know we got a chance of winning that fight and let me know that you got my back as well if I need you.
 

 

[Bob Owens]

Thats a cop out answer, you obviously are just spouting off. I spent four years at LGA and another 20 at JFK, If I don't know them I know someone who does.Bob I haven't worked in LGA in 17 years and even then I only had 2 years in. I'm talking about people in other stations. But if you need at least one name I'll give it to you. Gerald Kotinek. One of the best and most honest stewards I know and he doesn't win elections because of it.
 
That had nothing to do with what I said.You said that Chapter 11 was a scam and I said why I really believe they went in. So of course it has to do with what you said. And pilots have more pull than anyone at an airline, at least IMO although others don't buy it.
 
If what you were saying was true then they would not be sending us on hundreds of field trips every year and they would have closed all the class two stations. the fact is there aren't a lot of options out there for line Maintenance. MACH II and the other contractors are staffed mostly by AA workers and from what I recall we got paid by the hours the jobs was listed as, example IDG 4 hours, do it in one and go, get paid for four. That was non-union where if they didn't cut deals you simply didn't go back because it was a side job.That's great to hear for LINE maintenance and I know that you are a part of line maintenance. Do we fight for places like TUL too though? Their work is flying all over the globe.
 
Yes and there were thousands of RiF'd mechanics out there. AA had 300 just from NY. So the pool was full, now its empty. AA called back all 300 from NY, about a dozen came back. NWA never achieved full operations, they cut 20% of capacity on day one of the strike and were eventually absorbed by Delta, all of the other Unions except the pilots were thrown out of NWA as well. So the IAM lost, the FAs lost and the TWU lost but they lost without ever getting a chance to fight back.Do we have any clue on that scab list I posted how many of them were out of work Mechanics and not AMFA guys who said "Screw You" I'm going back to work? Seems to me that I heard a ton of them crossed their own picket line.
Bob I'm not your enemy. I'll fight with you any day you want. But first let me know we got a chance of winning that fight and let me know that you got my back as well if I need you.

Actually its AFWs and MCI's work that is flying all over the Globe. Tulsa willingly helped the company get rid of those two bases. Fight for Tulsa? Personally I'm willing let bygones be bygones and fight for any and everyone but not roll over for anyone. Tulsa never fought for anybody, not even themselves and were more than willing to drag or throw everyone else under the bus. When we explained that the Concessions were making it so we could not afford to live where we were their response was "Then move to Tulsa". Sam was reasonable but he was overruled by Hewitt and Carlisle (who said exactly that-"move to Tulsa'). Shortly after the 2003 concessions Tulsa tried to use their majority status to take away the line premium and use it to buy themselves back another holiday. In 2003 we lost shift pay and 2.5xHoliday pay and five holidays to minimize concessions to "save" Tulsa. These concessions primarily affected the line. Then when the 757 grievance was thrown in as part of the equity, which the concessions supposedly kept in house, concessions that were disproportionately targeted against the line, the line was excluded, so we paid a disproportionate price to keep that work as TWU work but all of a sudden it became "Base work", eligible for all base workers even those who didn't work the 757 but not Line workers. During BK negotiations the company offered an extra 50cents to the line, that would have at least restored the loss of shift premiums, something every other carrier provides, one of the concessions that had little impact on the base but did impact most of the line, and Tulsa's response was that the deal was DOA if the line got "one penny more than Tulsa". I'm not looking to screw them, but I'm not willing to give anymore to save them because they are not willing to fight either. Tulsa voted in a bad deal, a deal that Ream went around telling the Line guys would end Tulsa's hegemony on maintenance, they were warned, they voted for it anyway. The international pulled out all the stops to get it passed, including having Tom Roth and Sharon Levine lie to the members to get them to vote YES. We did what we could to get it rejected. What do you expect us to do about it? Fight (roll over and give more concessions)to put them back on top? I think whats happening in Tulsa was inevitable, but at least they would have had a great job until it ended, now we all have a below average job for our skills and are losing the heads anyway.

Let me ask you, are you willing to "fight" (roll over and accept concessions-the fight is between you and your creditors, not you and the company) for the Cleaners, bus drivers, building cleaners etc by cutting your pay and Benefits way below what all your peers at other carriers at the airport you are at get? Are you willing to cut your pay to $15hr so they can bring that work back in house, restaff BDL, PHL and EWR and pay those workers $15hr as well? thats exactly what you are saying we should be willing to do.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Bob did the mechanics ever have Geo Pay?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob did the mechanics ever have Geo Pay?

At AA no. Not that I'm aware of.