WHO DESTROYED OUR CAREERS?

[PITbull]

Market forces and economics played a huge role in it all. Just like it did to the steel and auto industry. Just like it has even done in recent years to IT/programming jobs that have moved offshore to the lowest bidder.

These are all things you can't necessarily pin on a group of greedy CEOs or union reps. If you took all the money from the golden parachutes given over the years, they still wouldn't have put much of a dent in the airline labor costs that were already rising to unattainable levels before 9/11.

Reality isn't fair. Life isn't fair.

Run that by us again...economic what??...this industry will collectively profit this past year in the billions!!!! Two MAJORS are still in bankruptcy and one major just got out 14 months ago. Unlike Steel which never recovered, and auto that has not recovered and may not.

Economic forces and busted contracts ARE MAKING THIS INDUSTRY SOAR FOR THE EXECS, SHAREHOLDERS AND INVESTORS..all on the backs of labor who are impoverished!

Get you shitttt together and take your head out of your azzzzz.

In the final analysis, it's really all of our faults.

We all allowed Wall Street to maximize profits with little thought to who or what was paying the price for the profits, stock market gains and dividends.

We continued to vote for elected officials who didn't have the interests of the people at heart, but rather business.

We shop at Wal-Mart, a company who is a preditor and runs out all the locally-based businesses and then doesn't provide a liveable wage and full health care to it's workers so that they need public health care and food stamps.

We stopped saving money, but spent money we didn't have on big cars and other luxury items despite not having the money to pay for those items when we bought them, making the bankers into robber barons.

The list goes on and on, but it all comes down to greed.

The Corporate Bankruptcy laws shield a company and allow labor, creditors and shareholders to lose everything through the process of achieving their "clean slate". Even if it takes a couple of times.

Who's fault? The pilots shoulder alot of the blame, just as they should be commended for saving the company.

Does it make sense that a pilot should walk away with a nearly $2 million severence? Great if you can get it - but like social security, it was too good to last. The blame should be directed at your former colleagues.

Making a stand would have put everyone out of work, how can you still deny that?

There are alot of folks out there flying planes for under $100k, and until that supply of pilots goes away, you'd better be prepared to work with management on a mutually beneficial agreement.

Just wait until pilotless aircraft hit the market. How long do you think travelers will be willing to pay double the price just to have a human up front?

Yea...only the Execs should walk away with millions in retirements...like Home Depot CEO who just received a severance package of $200 million. Not a retirement; just his damn severance. Corporate has soared in this economy and real earnings for the working class has stagnated and in many cases for many folks declined.

 

[qwerty]

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Remember that the next time you see an esclator or moving sidewalk out of service.....

Opps im sorry...Your Dead!!

You didn't include elevators. Do you ride or take the stairs?

And Pitbull, if you don't like the laws in this country, work to change them. Blaming them for your woes is pitiful. Without the benefit of these laws, all of your former colleagues would be out of work.

 

[PITbull]

And Pitbull, if you don't like the laws in this country, work to change them. Blaming them for your woes is pitiful. Without the benefit of these laws, all of your former colleagues would be out of work.

And, 22,000 of my collegues did lose their jobs. The demand for flying has only increased; not decreased, as evidenced by most of the majors earning profits. I can assure you as I sit here today, that if the company would have shut down, 100% of those working would either be working for another airline or another industry!!! With regard to the majority of labor's current wage, it sucks with no prospects of increase until 2012, if ever. Many of my collegues who have kept their jobs at U have declared personal BK.

 

[twoturnin]

After only two different ALPA work rules--PIA and U S Air in my 22.5 yrs ---I have to say the work rules destroyed my career----I used to be extrememly hard on Uncle Ed---but have done a 180 ref him---work rules and pay right after 9/11 only changed at one place that I can think of---American's Allied Pilots group---we just kept making the big bucks bleeding down the rwy center line---not to mention the 60K+ the RC4 dudes cost each pilot here my .02$ Two

 

[700IAM]

22,000 of my collegues did lose their jobs. The demand for flying has only increased; not decreased, as evidenced by most of the majors earning profits. I can assure you as I sit here today, that if the company would have shut down, 100% of those working would either be working for another airline or another industry!!! With regard to the majority of labor's current wage, it sucks with no prospects of increase until 2012, if ever. Many of my collegues who have kept their jobs at U have delcared personal BK.

This was directed at TIM N and NOT the bull!!! My mistake

 

[diogenes]

In the end, greed, and we all had a hand.

We did not drive a stake into the heart of laisseze faire with the New Deal. The old ruling class resurrected it, bit by bit, culminating in Reagan and Friedman ( free market theory is a warmed-over rehash of a laisseze faire system that never produced a significant middle class, and it seems we're headed back in that direction) convincing working people to vote against their economic interests.

We have a general public too willing to throw fellow citizens overboard. When NAFTA came down and we started outsourcing automaking, I heard far too many blue and white collar folks say "fine, those greedy union bast*&ds make too much anyway." Now that outsourcing has hit computer programming, accounting, radiology, etc. (we're even sending patients overseas for surgery), the folly is becoming apparent to all. Lou Dobbs is doing yeoman work in this area.

With regards to US, management divided and conquered. Many senior pilots and those who 'had' to be a pilot threw their profession under the bus. Mechs threw fleet, and big fleet threw little fleet under the bus. Rez vs. ATO's. Only one labor leader had it right, and we didn't follow her lead. Collectively, we did not make a stand. Personally, I voted every time to call management's bluff, because there was no way they were going to let a cash machine like US go Chapt. 7,Dr. Bronner to the contrary.

I don't want a government handout. I do want government to prepare a level playing field. Right now, the deck is heavily stacked in favor of corporations.

Corporations are necessary tools, and many serve their stakeholders well. OTOH, they are also dictatorships, not democracies. Their sole purpose is profit.

How wise is it to let them run untrammeled through our republic?

How did we get here? Look in the mirror.

 

[autofixer]

Qwerty, Don't forget, the pilots' (and everone else's for that matter) retirement was DEFERRED COMPENSATION! Social Security is mandated with and by the force of government. Deferred compensation should have been paid in wages if it was not to be paid in retirement...period! U was the custodian of that money. That money was stolen, plain and simple! The company and the judge are immoral theives. Did you know the U pilots' retirement was over 98% funded before it vanished! The PBGC must love the U pilots, because their money is helping to prop up the PBGC; another unfunded government mandate which is liable to fail in the future. Doug, Dave and the last 8 cast of characters don't have that problem as they skimmed millions from the employees' backs.

 

[4merresrat]

" The glory days of the airline world, and more specifically the airline career, is a nearly comical but no less tragic ghost of former greatness. Greed, financial mismanagement, poor regulatory oversight, and a nearly psychotic competitive zeal have ruined the airline industry... Robber barons disguised as airline managers have broken the faith between their workers and the promises they made over decades by managing their companies poorly, and raiding promised pension and medical plans. Jobs that once carried great esteem have been changed into nearly unbearable chores that are worth far less to the worker than they were but a few years ago...

The stripping of pay, pensions and benefits from thousands of workers who desperately need those wages and programs (and who had no alternatives in place -- or warnings of any kind that they might need one) seems to us to be a criminal act --especially when so many of the ills and behaviors that created this mess are still in place.

I came upon this incredible (ridiculous) post and my 1st thought was, "Is he joking?" But, sadly, probably not. There are so many ridiculous statement, where does one start.. First, the glory days when airline jobs carried "great esteem" Well, pilot's jobs, yes, but the rest of the jobs, I think not. And yes, a lot of people wanted them becauase they offered good pay and benefits, and free travel. What could be better. And one must note, many of them required very little, if any skill. And you say that there was "little warning" that these jobs were in jeopardy by thousands of workers who "desperately need those pages and programs (welfare. Give me a break! I guess all one had to do was watch the news for the past 10 years to see that the glory days of airline jobs were gone. And robber barons and greed? Might I suggest a new "career" for you in drama-you are quite melodramatic.

 

[pilot]

After only two different ALPA work rules--PIA and U S Air in my 22.5 yrs ---I have to say the work rules destroyed my career----I used to be extrememly hard on Uncle Ed---but have done a 180 ref him---work rules and pay right after 9/11 only changed at one place that I can think of---American's Allied Pilots group---we just kept making the big bucks bleeding down the rwy center line---not to mention the 60K+ the RC4 dudes cost each pilot here my .02$ Two

Here we have the perfect example of the GAG. This is the mentality of defeatism and truly not realizing what it is he does for a living. Or where the true problems in the industry lie. He cant' figure out that a Southwest pilot makes 40% more than he does because the Southwest management know how to run an airline. And continually adapt the the changing airline enviornment. And this cretin blames his fellow pilots for the problems.

He is worth the .02 cents he espouses and that is precisely what management will pay him. Because he will accept it without a whimper, blame the pilots for the airline ills and walk happily into the sunset thrilled he can just fly the airplanes. Because "that's all I know how to do."

And this attitude is a prime reason our careers have turned into jobs. This guy will give until the cows come home.

Just so he can fly his airplane.

 

[phasersonstun2]

As much as I miss the good 'ol days, one thing I have learned in this business is that we as employees are at the mercy of whatever the money decides.

A salient example: In the movie "Alien 2", a young girl is the only human survivor on a planet overrun by aliens. Ripley, a strong female leader of a group sent to investigate the loss of contact from the planet interviews the girl. In the presence of the marines, Ripley states that more firepower is needed. The young girl plaintively states "It won't make any difference".

That is the way it is in our industry now. We can burn all the gas we want but in the end, its' a mosquito bite to management.

 

[convair880]

Deregulation of the airline industry. Prior to deregulation, when airline costs went up or when employees demanded raises the airlines simply went to the CAB to request a higher fare on the routes....routes which were a near monopoly with typically only one other airline on the same route. No one cared how hig fares went because airlines weren't competing. There was no competition thus airline managements didn't have to worry about costs. Most of the legacy airlines are just now figuring out how to compete in a deregulated market. There was no incentive to watch costs. They didn't have their efficiencies as SWA does thus they have fewer places to go to lower costs other than employee costs. I remember when airlines used to brag about having 12 different types of aircraft.

 

[Itestwell]

We have some pretty big contract negotiations going on now, and let's hope that people are angry enough to actually vote. For those people that cowered last time by continuously voting YES on concessionary contracts because they were afraid they'd have to look for a job, fear not. The company is now solvent, and we deserve a fair, industry leading contract. Our leaders are very much enjoying our profits. Are you? Where is the outrage?

 

[hp_fa]

In the end, greed, and we all had a hand.

........................................

How did we get here? Look in the mirror.

I see someone understood my point and, I suspect, the original posters intent.

 

[PITbull]

I don't want a government handout. I do want government to prepare a level playing field. Right now, the deck is heavily stacked in favor of corporations.

Corporations are necessary tools, and many serve their stakeholders well. OTOH, they are also dictatorships, not democracies. Their sole purpose is profit.

How wise is it to let them run untrammeled through our republic?

How did we get here? Look in the mirror.

I see that the democrats are moving to even the playing field for the working class. Sen. Bill Frank will introduce a Bill that may curb Exec compensation...giving shareholders more of a say in what contracts get approved. In light of Corporate Bk, wiping out promised pension plans and dumpting them to the PBGC, then having the execs merge from the BK and have a huge payday, I look forward to seeing more bills from the Dems on the agenda.

Don't know is such a thing would pass but it is placing the "spot light" on exec compensation and the public is raising eyebrows.

Glad to see that on the immediate agenda is increasing min. wage. The $7.25 starting pay for U ramp and $9 for customer service won't be looking so good when a person can have weekend and holidays off making the same amount in another field/industry. This will make it even more difficult for the company to lure folks to take these types of jobs.

On the brighter side, I see real earnings for working Americans going up, non-labor and labor sector if this bill passes...this will also increase gov. tax revenues by having min wage earners earning more per hour.

 

[diogenes]

hp fa,

Your posts always have clarity, and are a pleasure to boot.

PitBull,

Honey, I don't know if we'll live long enough to undo all the damage, but we made a start today. The next fight will be against DINO's (Democrat In Name Only) like Hillary and Rahm Emmanuel, who will sell us out to keep their comfortable little perch.

Been there, done that.